If Freemasonry is not a secret society, then answer me why?

Originally posted by Rockpuck




As for Christianity not accusing other faiths and organizations.... sadly.. I wish it where true, but the fact is. Its not.

If it where not for the derogatory nature of Christianity, there would be no need for Masonry.

Happily, it IS true. Christianity I talk about is according to the teachings of Christ himself. It is not based on ''faith and organizations'', so to speak. If you think Christ was derogatory to anyone, feel free to point that out to me.
NOTE: Whatever references I make to Christianity are based on Christ's life, examples and teachings. Not on churches(of which we'll all agree there are many) or organizations.


As for your last statement about 'masonry being the answer to the problems caused by the nature of Christianity', well I find that statement full of contradiction and ironical to a lot of things I have heard from several masons(sadly not the first time I am experiencing contradiction and irony in masonry). Your statement seems to suggest(?) that masonry is opposed to what you call the nature of Christianity. Surely it is time for me to go to bed.
To get the full 'gist' of my inquiries you need to read ALL my posts(not that many), the replies I got to them and the replies I in turn gave to those. I think I am getting some of what i sought. Some others I have still not gotten reply to but that's fine.


If i don't reply henceforth tonight, I'll be asleep. Goodnight brother. Goodnight ML

reply to post by brinkofluv


Ok then.

Since your perception of Christianity has been the dominate philosophy amongst the religion since inception, I must surely be wrong!

As for the rest of your post.. I honestly cannot discern your stance or attitude towards the conversation still.

Apparently you still have an issue with Masonry, and have happily stereotyed us, thus contradicting exactly what you said in your post above?

Hi brinkofluv

I hope you don't mind me jumping in here, but I am attracted by the quality of discussion going on here (at last) as well as the topic. My perspective might be of interest to you as I am a practicing Christian as well as a freemason.

Originally posted by brinkofluv
Belief in a supreme being i doubt can ever be THE only requirement for initiation into masonry.

In my jurisdiction (it varies) one must be 21, male, believe in a supreme being and be joining of your own free will and accord.

BUT IT CERTAINLY IS A REQUIREMENT WITHOUT WHICH YOU CAN NOT JOIN.

This is quite right, but it is of course the reasons behind this requirement that are most revealing. Freemasonry teaches a methodology, a 'blueprint for life' if you like, which is based exclusively on the morality lessons found in the Bible. As, almost without exception, the basic principles of morality outlined in the Holy Bible are, in fact, ones that 'all men can agree on', membership need not be limited to Christians. However as freemasonry fully recognizes that morality is divinely inspired the lack of any belief in a "supreme being" would render the entire program meaningless to the participant.

It would be quite wrong, however, to believe that freemasonry makes a judgment call in these matters. The system is designed to be as open to as many people as possible who might benefit from it, and quite frankly from my perspective the more people who exposed to morality plays the better.

The principle at work is to bring people together with what we have in common, not seeking to divide by our differences. By remaining generic in this way individuals are free to interpret the lessons of the ritual in the context of their own religion. I know of many Christians who have come to a deeper understanding of Jesus Christ because they were encouraged to do so by freemasonry.

There is an additional criteria for ongoing membership which puts all this into perspective:

Without interfering in religious practice it expects each member to follow his own faith, and to place above all other duties his duty to God, by whatever name He is known.

A freemason is not only expected to have a faith, but to follow his faith as an ongoing requirement of membership. In this respect freemasonry is complimentary to religion (although to be fair probably not Devil Worship )

I'm a bit confused to 'the teachings and truths of freemason are not secret'. It is after all a secret society right? Now, if I require any information whatsoever(whether rituals, initiations, origins, access to any parts of headquarters, any documentation at all, etc and then some) would that be made available to me?

I would argue quite strongly that freemasonry is not a secret society, as it exhibits none of the characteristics of being secret. It is, however, a private society - one that is perfectly free to keep its own private business to itself. If you can name another organization that would give you complete access to its headquarters and read any documentation it possessed I would be interested to know about it. Compared to most I think you will find freemasonry surprisingly open, for example Freemasons Hall in London (as well as many others) give guided tours of key parts of the building without charge.

brinkofluv,

If it might help clear things up, it might be important to note that Freemasonry varies (in some cases vastly) from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. I don't know where you're located, but in the United States for example, each State has it's own Grand Lodge that is the governing body of that jurisdiction. There is NO authority higher than a Grand Lodge. However, what we deem "regular" Masonry (and yes, there is "irregular" Masonry but we don't have the space to get into that) does agree upon the so-called "Ancient Landmarks" of Freemasonry.

They may be found here:

www.masonicworld.com...

and are briefly explained here:

www.masonicworld.com...

One is the "Belief in God as the Great Architect of the Universe" (a phrase coined by Protestant Reformation leader John Calvin, it is believed)

This basically means that an applicant must believe that there is a God who is the creator of all. The initiation process works basically like this. Before the Candidate is admitted into the Lodge Room to receive the First Degree (thus becoming an Entered Apprentice Mason) he is asked a serious of questions. These vary a bit from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but in my home Grand Lodge (Kentucky) the very first question asked of the Candidate is "Do you believe in the existence of God, the Creator?" If the Candidate answers "Yes" he is then admitted and initiated into the First (or Entered Apprentice) Degree. If he says "No" he is refunded his initiation fees and is free to leave. (Of course he can hang around for stale donuts and aluminum-flavored coffee afterwards if he wants to, but he will not be initiated)

By the way, the above scenario isn't likely to happen if a: the Investigating Committee appointed to see if he is fit material to be a Mason has done a good job and b: if he has carefully read and honestly answered the questions on the application for the Degrees (called a "Petition") as this typically spells out the requirements pretty clearly.

Another thing of note is that before taking his Obligation which is a promise to keep inviolate the secrets of Freemasonry (and which, incidentally, ends with the words "so help me God" just like in a court room) he is assured by the officer about to administer the obligation, "the obligation you are about to take contains nothing which can conflict with any duties you owe to God, your country, your neighbor or yourself. Neither can it conflict with any religious or political opinions you have, be they what they may."

I have Mason friends who are fundamentalist Christians, main-stream protestants, Roman Catholics (yes, RC!) etc. I also have friends who are Jewish as well as Muslim. Some of my Mason friends (including some who have posted on this list) aren't members of ANY particular religion. Yet, they believe that there is a God (an "Almighty One" if you will)

What they believe ABOUT him is their business and is not discussed in Lodge at all...for ANY reason. That's not what we are all about and that's why we are not a religion, though some say we are.

We are a fraternity. A brotherhood. We accept our fellow man as our Brother (just as Jesus the Christ TOLD us to, I might add) and we leave his personal religion, well, personal.

Church = Religion

Masonry = Brotherhood

Does any of that make sense? It's been a long day full of lots of numbers, calculations, capitalization rates, equities, etc. etc.

I think organizations have secrets before the public because they would not approve of the actions or things they plan on doing as a "secret society."

Originally posted by brinkofluv

Now when you accept people into your fold based on the fact that they MUST accept any form of religion of which there are 'numerous valid' examples, you do their faith a great disservice. |To any religion. This is true whether they realize it or not, and whether it is acknowledged or not. You are diminishing the essence of their faith(I'm trying to put this mildly).

I disagree because Masons believe in the Brotherhood of Man under the Fatherhood of God. Religious ideas are, for the most part, inventions of man, coming from his own intellect, his own reason, and sometimes, from his own fear and superstition.

But Masons believe in the inherent brotherhood of *everyone*, that it is a fact in nature, regardless of their personal political or religious opinions.

Remember also You nor I made this rule. INITIATION DID NOT HAVE TO BE BASED ON RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, especially as we agree this is no guarantee of righteousness.

Yet initiation into the mysteries has always held certain spiritual and moral requirements. Since Freemasonry, like the mysteries of antiquity, recognizes the Divine as the source of all light, life, and virtue, one cannot be initiated unless they understand this. It is not that we think atheists are immoral, it is simply that an atheist is not spiritually prepared to receive initiation.

Also, so what do you consider 'true' Christianity, not just the popular one you say most Christians practice? I really would like to know. What is your idea of the true god. Surely you can't be atheist, it's against your fraternity.

I believe that Gnosticism was the pure, original Christianity. And that the faith was corrupted when people began taking the allegories literally, losing the true meanings.

For example, evangelicals literally believe that the universe was created in six days, about 6,000 years ago. They believe in a worldwide flood during the time of Noah, and that, apparently, Noah's sons were able to bring polar bears on the ark by riding pterodactyls to the North Pole. They believe that Jesus was literally born of a virgin, walked on water, raised the dead, and was himself resurrected. They believe he literally flew up in the sky on a cloud, in bodily form, and is today still out there in outer space somewhere.

In other words, I believe that they have made idols of the symbols, and have forgotte what they were supposed to really mean. And they use these beliefs to oppress others.

Let's not forget religion is not party membership and is quite strict and sacred.

So is Freemasonry.

There IS a difference between belief in the existence of satan and the worship of satan. Most Christians believe there is a satan who certainly has some powers. So maybe i did not ask my question properly. If I worship satan as my supreme being, then am i allowed to join freemasonry? Remember that freemasons do not define who we worship, only that we worship. Whatever we call it, I'm certain there are people who worship satan.

No, for a number of reasons.

What I meant earlier was that "Satan" is a creation of Judeo-Christian dogma. So if a person is actually worshiping Satan, then he believes in Judeo-Christian dogma; otherwise he wouldn't be worshiping an entity found within that religion's beliefs. And in that religion, Satan is not a Supreme Being.

Now, a devil worshiper could pretend to worship a Supreme Being just to qualify for Masonic membership. But would he pass the other requirements? No felonies, no immoral misdemeanors, good reputation among neighbors and co-workers, etc.? Probably not.

All this, of course, is just theoretical. Devil worshipers tend to be teenagers with emotional problems who are rebelling against the belief system of their parents. These are not potential candidates for Masonry.

The actual organization, the Church of Satan, is not composed of devil worshipers, but of atheists and agnostics who are simply anti-Christian for whatever reason. They also do not qualify for initiation.

ML(can i call you that for short) I was a boyscout and I'm sure we'll both agree that scouts and freemasons are fundamentally very different.

I cannot agree. Boy Scouts of America was founded by a couple of Freemasons, with the same basic requirements and ideals as Freemasonry.

I'm a bit confused to 'the teachings and truths of freemason are not secret'. It is after all a secret society right? Now, if I require any information whatsoever(whether rituals, initiations, origins, access to any parts of headquarters, any documentation at all, etc and then some) would that be made available to me?

Yes, most of that stuff is public, and no, Masons do not consider Freemasonry a secret society. We consider our order to be a fraternal organization, and like all fraternities and sororities, has its own traditional "secrets".

As a non-Mason, a Masonic organization could not provide you with the actual verbatim rituals. However, descriptions of the rituals are in print in many very good Masonic books. There have also been hundreds of great books written on Masonic history and philosophy.

As for "access to headquarters", you would be welcome. The Supreme Council 33° of the Scottish Rite of Masonry for the Southern Jurisdiction of the USA has its headquarters in Washington D.C., where tours are given daily. Most Grand Lodge buildings offer tours as well.

As for local Lodges and Scottish Rite Temples, not only will someone give you a tour, but you can even rent the place for an event when it's not in use.

Wow, some very interesting views. Generally, let me say firstly that I'm getting different views from different masons. One says it's possible for a worshiper of satan to join freemasonry, another says it's not. Of course my friend who says not is still defining what a devil worshiper is which i thought we should not do. Whether devil worshipers commit felonies I don't know, nor care. I would suppose freemasonry as a responsible organization(not as individuals) would have a particular stance on certain issues. Possibly, it doesn't. 'Belief in a supreme being' in our world is quite ambiguous and carries different connotations which can be for good, evil or simply ridiculous. Especially as this beliefs don't necessarily regulate the conduct of individuals. But, perhaps again, freemasonry doesn't care about that fact.

To my friend Rockpuck I say: I have stereotyped Masons no more than you have stereotyped Christians in your post. A Christian is as I defined earlier, NOT 'what is popular today', or 'the dominate philosophy of the religion since inception'. Needless to say of course there are plenty of things rightly or wrongly attributed to Christianity. BUT, when we talk about an organization, we refer to exactly that which they stand for from inception, and the original objectives from it's foundation and guiding principles. Not what contemporary members do, right, wrong or politically correct. And that's for any group. And just for the record, freemasonry at inception WAS a secret society. That a friend on this forum would rather call it a 'private society' i consider PC and very much keeping with the times, so to speak.

To Trinityman: Of course I don't mind you jumping in. Welcome friend. Now initially I said my main(not only) 'issue' with freemasonry is that it requires without exception that a person believe in a supreme being of any nature, so long as you consider that being , well, God. Or your God. I said that religion and faith being what they are, that this seemingly very welcoming approach was condescending to really any religion. Christianity for example absolutely advocates strictly a belief in ONLY one God. Now i already said that forming a group of friends if you like, or organization, or fraternity that welcomes members from other faiths is not necessarily bad. Indeed offices, social groups, etc do this. HOWEVER, offices and such do not require explicitly that without a certain religious belief (or any religious beliefs for that matter) you can NOT join. Now you say masonry 'teaches a methodology which is based exclusively on the morality lessons found in the Bible'. Your words. You also say 'As, almost without exception, the basic principles of morality outlined in the Holy Bible are, in fact, ones that 'all men can agree on', membership need not be limited to Christians'. YET the most basic rule of the Bible, the most sacred law of it ('I am your only God, father of Christ and you shall serve no other but me') you willfully flout by your terms of initiation. Which is more baffling to me because, I'll state again: religion has never been a guarantee of moral and upright behavior in a person. It is almost like a subliminal contradiction of the truth.
Also, I never said that one cannot 'obtain a better knowledge of Christ' because of freemasonry. But more important than that knowledge would be it's application to fully obey the laws of Christ without compromise. I can afterall be a muslim yet study the teachings of Christianity comfortably.
You say 'A freemason is not only expected to have a faith, but to follow his faith as an ongoing requirement of membership. In this respect freemasonry is complimentary to religion (although to be fair probably not Devil Worship )'. Again your words. Ok. But what faith? Just about any you well choose? OK. But then again, so WHAT IS FAITH THEN? And what does it signify? Alright, 'You' don't define it, except without it I can NOT join.

To Senrak: Thanks buddy for the tip on variation of masonry from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Also, let me say honestly that I am sure most individual mason members have no intentions of doing evil or even wrong. I am sure they fraternize with each other regardless of religion and believe they accept their fellow man as their brother, as Jesus Christ told us to you rightly pointed out. But Jesus Christ told us a lot of things.

To Masonic light: Hello. To the first paragraph of your most recent reply, I say I still agree with my original views because my(or anyone's) religious belief is independent of the goals and objectives of masonry, or it's reasons for religious requirements for initiations. You say: 'Yet initiation into the mysteries has always held certain spiritual and moral requirements.' Well yes, for those mysteries that exist within spiritual and moral boundaries of religion. But a lot of brothers have already gone to pains to state that masonry is NOT a religious organization. It apparently only has certain requirements of a religious undertone.
Next, let me be the first to admit that I used 'worship of satan' in particular for dramatic effect, if you like. The point however is there are numerous(genuine, by the members faiths) religious beliefs in 'supreme beings'. Some, even by their objectives and practices, are not meant for good. And they regard their supreme being as their god. Now, i'll say that these are probably not the kind of people you look to recruit, but what's to stop them joining. It would seem that your recruitment process then is quite flawed, to say the least. Your 'tests and recommendations by other members for good and moral behavior'? Well ML, even I can pass that easy.

reply to post by brinkofluv


Traditionally, though, Masonry does not recruit, and I still it's an extremely bad idea to do so. If a person is drawn to Masonry, and meets the qualifications, he should be admitted. But if he is not drawn to Masonry, we should not try to pull him in. Freemasonry has alway operated under the "ask and ye shall receive" guideline.

I disagree with those brethren who may say that Freemasonry is not a religious institution. They may be in complete earnest when they say this, but if they really believe it, I don't think they were paying much attention when they were initiated.

Rather, I think they are saying that Freemasonry is not a "religion", i.e., when you ask a Mason what his religion is, he doesn't answer "Freemasonry".

As for satanism or devil worship, no, they cannot be made Masons. Ironically, a Mason just posted here a few days ago that his Grand Lodge expelled a member because it was discovered he was a Wiccan. If some GL's do not allow Wiccans, they certainly aren't going to allow satanists.

[edit on 20-2-2008 by Masonic Light]

reply to post by Masonic Light


Without getting into a detailed debate, Dogma is versatile and can change with the perception of each individual.

If Dogma was set in stone and un changeable, we would all be Eastern Orthodox (the first organized church) and every individual protestant church deemed "wrong" .. simply because each church takes the teachings and twist and mutates them into an individualized perception.

It is not impossible to say that the Christian God is actually the evil deity, and that Satan is actually the good guy simply by a twist of words.. to take the basis of the original story, and view from "another perspective".

It would also then be said that because Judaism is the basis of the three monotheistic religions, Christianity and Islam is impossible, because it uses one story, mutates it, and generates something completely different.

Then you could say that Judaism is impossible, because it most likely mutated from a form of Zoarstarian (sp?)

You simply cannot say "because dogma says this, such and such is impossible"

BEcause as you said.

Religion is a product of mans imagination and as such, it can change in every aspect along with mans imagination.

reply to post by Masonic Light

ML(can i call you that for short) I was a boyscout and I'm sure we'll both agree that scouts and freemasons are fundamentally very different.

I thought so to.. until a fellow ATS Mason showed me a few papers on what Scouts really is...

Scouting is more related to Masonry then any other organization not directly linked to us.. not even a cousin, but perhaps a half child.

In fact, the Order of the Arrow OA (If you where in Scouts honors like I was) is actually a DIRECT representation of the three degrees of Masonry.

And no, that is not a perspective.. a few Masons actually wrote the OA and made the degrees exactly like the degrees of Masonry (notice, three levels, the third being essentially the Master Mason degree) ...

However..

Looking back, I will admit, the OA degrees where far better, far more ritualistic and far more meaningful then any Masonic degree I have been in. At least in my area, it was damn impressive the ceremony they put on.. the only problem was I was to young to actually understand what was going on.

At least I can look forward to my sons being in the OA, and at least I will be able to tell them what it actually means, and where it came from.

reply to post by Masonic Light

As for satanism or devil worship, no, they cannot be made Masons. Ironically, a Mason just posted here a few days ago that his Grand Lodge expelled a member because it was discovered he was a Wiccan. If some GL's do not allow Wiccans, they certainly aren't going to allow satanists.

Yes Brother, if someone was found out to be a "satanist" they would be expelled. If found out.

Also, as you know the poor Wiccan fellow that was expelled.. well me and you both know that was an illegal action on the Grand Lodges part.. one which I found disturbing.

If someone believes in Satan as a supreme being, then that person will not like freemasonry.

The point of freemasonry is to help people. If a Satanist exists only to serve himself, then he wouldn't want to be a mason anyway.

We don't ask you 'Which God do you believe in?'. You are asked if you believe in a singular Supreme Being. Your relationship with that being is your business.

Beyond that, religion is not discussed in lodge. At times stories of religious characters are used in some of the lessons of morality but you will never have to say which supreme being you believe in.

If you don't want to help others, don't join masonry and leave us alone.

reply to post by emsed1


Agreed.

Also, as you know the poor Wiccan fellow that was expelled.. well me and you both know that was an illegal action on the Grand Lodges part.. one which I found disturbing.

YIKES!!!! Where was this? Could you direct me to the original post?

reply to post by AngelWitch


Your a Master Mason? AND a WITCH? I thought only females could be witches??

And no... I actually cannot direct you to the thread, because for the life of me I don't remember its name. (maybe its this one, I don't know)

reply to post by Rockpuck


Actually it is the 'Are the Masons evil?' thread on page 18...

Here

Hi brinkofluv

Originally posted by brinkofluv
Now initially I said my main(not only) 'issue' with freemasonry is that it requires without exception that a person believe in a supreme being of any nature, so long as you consider that being , well, God. Or your God. I said that religion and faith being what they are, that this seemingly very welcoming approach was condescending to really any religion. Christianity for example absolutely advocates strictly a belief in ONLY one God. Now i already said that forming a group of friends if you like, or organization, or fraternity that welcomes members from other faiths is not necessarily bad. Indeed offices, social groups, etc do this. HOWEVER, offices and such do not require explicitly that without a certain religious belief (or any religious beliefs for that matter) you can NOT join. Now you say masonry 'teaches a methodology which is based exclusively on the morality lessons found in the Bible'. Your words. You also say 'As, almost without exception, the basic principles of morality outlined in the Holy Bible are, in fact, ones that 'all men can agree on', membership need not be limited to Christians'. YET the most basic rule of the Bible, the most sacred law of it ('I am your only God, father of Christ and you shall serve no other but me') you willfully flout by your terms of initiation.

I was reading your post very carefully and it was at this point I got lost. Why do you think I serve another god? There is only one God, you and I know that perfectly well. Spending time in the company of men who believe something different to me has never troubled me, in fact I do it all the time. I don't think I'm understanding your point very well - although it seems to be something to do with the "terms of initiation". As there is nothing in my initiation which conflicts with my faith I would ask you to elaborate a little.

Which is more baffling to me because, I'll state again: religion has never been a guarantee of moral and upright behavior in a person. It is almost like a subliminal contradiction of the truth.

Quite right, membership of any organization does not guarantee adherence of the member to the principles. This as true for freemasons as much as for Christians. The morality lessons of the Bible are repeated within freemasonry, the message is the same whether the listener choses to listen or not.

Also, I never said that one cannot 'obtain a better knowledge of Christ' because of freemasonry. But more important than that knowledge would be it's application to fully obey the laws of Christ without compromise.

Because Christianity is interpretive, with many many groups believing different things, I would suggest the "laws of Christ" are probably subjective. I say probably because I'm not sure what Laws you are referring to. There's nothing in freemasonry that I'm aware of that goes against the teaching of Christ.

I can afterall be a muslim yet study the teachings of Christianity comfortably.

Of course you can, but if you followed Christianity as your Faith you would cease to be a Muslim and become a Christian.

You say 'A freemason is not only expected to have a faith, but to follow his faith as an ongoing requirement of membership. In this respect freemasonry is complimentary to religion (although to be fair probably not Devil Worship )'. Again your words. Ok. But what faith? Just about any you well choose? OK. But then again, so WHAT IS FAITH THEN? And what does it signify? Alright, 'You' don't define it, except without it I can NOT join.

Freemasonry doesn't define Faith, you do. Freemasonry doesn't define what constitutes a Supreme Being, you do. The whole determination of suitability (beyond the core requirements) for freemasonry is determined by you, not the Craft. If you are ready for freemasonry then freemasonry is ready for you.

I'd be very happy to drill a little deeper into what aspects of freemasonry you find incompatible with Christianity, as personally I don't see it and clearly I'm not following you very well, for which I apologize.

Originally posted by Trinityman
I was reading your post very carefully and it was at this point I got lost. Why do you think I serve another god? There is only one God, you and I know that perfectly well. Spending time in the company of men who believe something different to me has never troubled me, in fact I do it all the time. I don't think I'm understanding your point very well - although it seems to be something to do with the "terms of initiation". As there is nothing in my initiation which conflicts with my faith I would ask you to elaborate a little.

Hello Trinity.
I never said you serve more than one God. I agree with you that there is only one true God. I also said 'spending time' with people of different faiths is not a bad thing. I said it happens in offices, social groups and countless other gatherings. However, there is a significant difference between (a) accepting people of different faiths into your group and (b) actually insisting 'absolutely' that without those beliefs (which can be of a varied nature) one cannot join your group. I also said i found the totality of this rule(option b) baffling because religious beliefs (indeed for any religion) have never been a guarantee of moral and upright behavior of individuals, qualities I assume responsible organizations such as yours look for when accepting/initiating members. Unfortunately also, some beliefs actually advocate wrongful and unjust practices. I remember using 'devil worship' though I have admitted that this was used for dramatic effect. Nonetheless, religions like that exist. Something masonry doesn't seem bothered about as option b seems quite ambiguous.

SIDENOTE: I find the discussion (by masonic brothers in the above thread) on the expelled wiccan (pro or against) quite interesting.

Originally posted by TrinitymanBecause Christianity is interpretive, with many many groups believing different things, I would suggest the "laws of Christ" are probably subjective. I say probably because I'm not sure what Laws you are referring to. There's nothing in freemasonry that I'm aware of that goes against the teaching of Christ.

Let me point out one of these teachings of Christ: That there is 'only one God, Father of Christ and no one cometh to the Father but through Him (Christ) and Him alone'.



Apparently, freemasonry (not individuals) not only 'ignores' this rule when accepting its members, but as a matter of principle flouts it.

Originally posted by emsed1If you don't want to help others, don't join masonry and leave us alone.

I'm sure there are countless other organizations who 'help others'. And 'leave alone' is an advice I would have to say I'm inclined to agree with.

Have a great day all my brothers

reply to post by brinkofluv

Let me point out one of these teachings of Christ: That there is 'only one God, Father of Christ and no one cometh to the Father but through Him (Christ) and Him alone'.

Apparently, freemasonry (not individuals) not only 'ignores' this rule when accepting its members, but as a matter of principle flouts it.

Interesting...

So Christian Masons are "bad Masons" because they are with people who are not Christian? God is God, there is no definition of God, but rather an independant version depending on the individual.

My God is different then YOUR God.

A Christian Mason will believe God is the One God, and the holy Father of Christ.

But I wouldn't. And a Jew wouldn't.. and a Wiccan wouldnt.

Why should we have Christians suppress us with THEIR theology? The nature of Masonry is to free men from the bonds of Dogma, and to use its philosophies to further their individual religious commitments.