The american denial of global warming...

Very interesting and salient talk by Naomi Oreskes - a historian of science, and author of the climate science consensus paper in Science.



She firstly focuses on the history of the science supporting global warming - it is well-established and based on 100 year old physics, it has only become more consolidated over time.

Then moves onto the organised industry funded efforts to spread FUD about this science, using the techniques initially developed by think-tanks to defend the SDI and tobacco companies.

As I said, very good talk. If you are interested in the basic history of the science, and its denial, well worth the hour. Much better than the Gorelax

Comments? Gripes?

Cheers.

[edit on 8-2-2008 by melatonin]

Global warming has been disproven MULTIPLE times. As for the "Denial of America," America has been one of the most docile, gullible followers of the global warming scam, and in spite of the blind loyalty to the flawed idea, the media STILL tells the public that america is anti-global warming.
Why?
Because being anti-government is being rebellious. Hey, everyone likes being rebellious, right? Besides, no one wants to agree with the government. So, the government and media are working together. The government does what the liberals want, and the media keeps people mad at the government, so they'll support liberal ideas

Originally posted by Crusader of Truth
Global warming has been disproven MULTIPLE times.

Thanks for actually bumping the thread for me

I think it's fairly obvious that warming has been happening this century. The important issue is the cause. CO2 is a greenhouse gas (GHG), they increase radiative forcing of the atmosphere. We are releasing billions of tonnes of the stuff every year. CO2 levels appear to be higher than for at least 650,000 years. And so, all this CO2 will have been increasing radiative forcing, which leads to warming. And that's just GHGs as a human influence.

The video mentions how much of this is very well-established science based on simple physical processes known for about 150 years.

As for the "Denial of America," America has been one of the most docile, gullible followers of the global warming scam, and in spite of the blind loyalty to the flawed idea, the media STILL tells the public that america is anti-global warming.
Why?

Because your government has been. You also have an active industry-funded denial industry. Again, the video contains much of this info.

The government does what the liberals want

On this issue, I think the US government has a strange way of showing that. Same goes for the media.

Anyway, watch the video. It's required viewing if you're interested in these issues.

Blah blah blah

where are your pretty charts and graphs you always flood me with? Since everyone must be getting tired of seeing them, I guess your tied of making them too.

Global Warming EXISTS, along with GLOBAL COOLING. Its called weather. Its called Climate.

Originally posted by traderonwallst
Global Warming EXISTS, along with GLOBAL COOLING. Its called weather. Its called Climate.

OK. Thanks for that.

Have you bothered watching the video yet? Any useful comments on what Oreskes has to say?

Originally posted by traderonwallst
Blah blah blah

where are your pretty charts and graphs you always flood me with? Since everyone must be getting tired of seeing them, I guess your tied of making them too.

Global Warming EXISTS, along with GLOBAL COOLING. Its called weather. Its called Climate.

You wrote what plenty of us think on this subject. When people like algore, totally leave out the sun in there equations, the public will not buy into it, completely.

Originally posted by andy1033
You wrote what plenty of us think on this subject. When people like algore, totally leave out the sun in there equations, the public will not buy into it, completely.

If you listen to the scientists they don't leave out solar activity at all. In fact, the lack of a relationship between solar activity and current warming is just another line of support for AGW.

I highly recommend PBS's NOVA broadcast on Global dimming as a counter to the its all the sun's fault argument.

I have never said ITS the suns fault. Melatonin you know that. We have been on too many posts in here together where I have talked about el nino and el nina, volcanoes, the sun, the slowing down and speeding up of the rotation of the earth. There are thousnads of reasons as to why we heat and cool. But it does not prove there is any such thing as global warming going on. Climate is just that. Weather and temperatures change. Find me a place that stay 82 degrees at all times and I will move there tomorrow. If you can also find me a place that only rains at night, even better.

Originally posted by traderonwallst
I have never said ITS the suns fault. Melatonin you know that. We have been on too many posts in here together where I have talked about el nino and el nina, volcanoes, the sun, the slowing down and speeding up of the rotation of the earth. There are thousnads of reasons as to why we heat and cool.

I was actually responding to Andy. But no worries...

And so far none of them can account for what we are currently observing. We can only fully account for the current warming by taking into account human effects.

Have you watched the video yet? It won't melt your mind or anything...

[edit on 13-2-2008 by melatonin]

Sorry, can't watch things like that at work. WEBSENSE won;t let me. Normally I can't even get on this web page anymore. They blocked it as an alternative journal/propaganda 2 months ago.

Anyone know how to get around websense???????

Originally posted by traderonwallst
They blocked it as an alternative journal/propaganda 2 months ago.

Heh, it blocked ATS as propaganda? That's funny.

Anyone know how to get around websense???????

I have absolutely no idea, sorry. Maybe just watch it later at home if you can.

Here's what I don't understand about global warming, or it's known now, climate change.

In school we were taught that CO2, carbon dioxide, is everywhere. We exhale it and plants use it to give off oxygen.

Is that theory still valid today? I don't know, because now I keep hearing that Carbon emissions are responsible for global warming.

What about the fact that the sun is more active now with lots of solar flares? If it is warming up, wouldn't that effect be felt here as well? I am sure it would.

So why are we slapping fines and 'carbon foot prints' for companies, when carbon is not the cause of global warming?

OP, I haven't watched the video yet. These questions are just something that I need to understand before I watch any videos about the 'truth' about GW.

Thank you.

Originally posted by quintar
In school we were taught that CO2, carbon dioxide, is everywhere. We exhale it and plants use it to give off oxygen.

Is that theory still valid today? I don't know, because now I keep hearing that Carbon emissions are responsible for global warming.

Yup, the carbon cycle still exists. The biosphere emits and absorbs CO2. But this cycle is being impacted on by our emissions. Billions of tonnes of CO2 every year.

The biosphere can only absorb so much CO2. It is currently absorbing about 50% of our emissions, the rest leads to increasing concentrations in the atmosphere. As CO2 is a GHG, this leads to warming.

At some point, the biosphere will probably stop absorbing our emissions, and begin emitting what it has absorb.

What about the fact that the sun is more active now with lots of solar flares? If it is warming up, wouldn't that effect be felt here as well? I am sure it would.

Solar activity reached a peak about 50 years or so ago, and has possbily been falling for the last 20. Thus, solar cannot account for current warming. It probably did have some impact on warming in the earlier part of the 20th century.

OP, I haven't watched the video yet. These questions are just something that I need to understand before I watch any videos about the 'truth' about GW.

Thank you.

No problem.

The first part of the video actually answers some of the issues you appear to have about CO2-induced warming. It's from a more historical viewpoint, but it shows that the science underpinning these ideas are well-established.

I have posted rebuttals to this global warming -----solely the fault of man---ad naseum and ad infinatum both here and many other places.
I am weary of debunking the faith, as a faith it is, with facts devoid of "talking heads", as no one in the faith counts the oppositition facts as equal to their own, but only some money grubbing corporate greed wishing to keep their profit to the detriment of all mankind.
I will not argue another thread that has a video of someone spouting their faith with verbal "proof". I implore people to look up the actual data, and interpret it themselves, rather than to blindly follow EITHER side of the debate.
Areas to study:
Earth climate- the last billion years.
Atmospheric components- greenhouse gasses- percentages and efficacy.
Solar output and planetary effects.
Mars ice cap coverage - last 50 years.
Climate change in publications- last 100 years.
Ice core data--particulate and gas composition- last 100,000 years.

I am only interested in debating those who have taken the time to study the facts devoid of spin and agenda, as all others see it as a hostile conversion attempt to get them to follow another "god".

Originally posted by gotrox
I am only interested in debating those who have taken the time to study the facts devoid of spin and agenda, as all others see it as a hostile conversion attempt to get them to follow another "god".

Yeah, great, cheers.

So, what did you think of the video?

The real reason why so many Americans, and especially Americans on the right are so opposed to the notion of man made global warming are twofold... one: environmental concerns smells rather leftist and hippieish to them and as such is immediately written off and the other, and in my minds eye is the most important reason is that the the whole notion contains an implicit criticism of the American lifestyle at its most selfish levels, and God forbid that America should be in the wrong about anything.

Well, it's certainly got nothing to do with the evidence, heh.

As Oreskes points out, much of it is to do with even the slightest hint of any regulatory mechanism. They did it for tobacco, CFC/ozone, and now AGW.

Instead of insulting Americans....why don;t you do what melatonin has yet to do. Prove without a doubt that global warming exists. That means showing data that completely eliminates every other potential cause. You have to eliminate volcanoes completely. Eliminate the sun completely. Elliminate naturally occuring weather events like el nino and la nina. completely.

Only after you have completely p[roved global warming exists then you can attempt to prove that man is causing it.

By the way in order to prove global warming exists you have to show that temperatures will head in direction in perpetuity. Which means no cooling. Otherwise, heating and cooling means cycles. Which is of course is really what climate change is. heating and cooling....heating and cooling......heating and cooling.............

Originally posted by traderonwallst
Prove without a doubt that global warming exists. That means showing data that completely eliminates every other potential cause. You have to eliminate volcanoes completely. Eliminate the sun completely. Elliminate naturally occuring weather events like el nino and la nina. completely.

OK, trader, the sun can be eliminated as it has been going nowhere for the last 50 years. It hit a peak about 1945, and never got past it again. Indeed, solar activity has been apparently falling. Volcanoes actually result in a period of cooling due to the sulphates they emit, so I'm not sure why that is relevant.

ENSO (which is El Nino and La Nina) just shifts energy around. They are very short term cycles involving the transfer of energy from the oceans. We have a warm El Nino, then a cool La Nina. That's not going to result in warming over multiple decades.

Only after you have completely p[roved global warming exists then you can attempt to prove that man is causing it.

By the way in order to prove global warming exists you have to show that temperatures will head in direction in perpetuity. Which means no cooling. Otherwise, heating and cooling means cycles. Which is of course is really what climate change is. heating and cooling....heating and cooling......heating and cooling.............

I'm sorry, trader. I'll be totally blunt here - you have no idea what you are talking about. I explained this in the other thread, and I won't do it again.

If you have something to say about the video, I'm interested, otherwise, just leave this stuff to the other thread.

Cheers.