Republicans put the heat on top 6 Pentecostal Evangelists!

Republicans put the heat on top 6 Pentecostal Evangelists!

www.alternet.org

It hasn't generated a lot of headlines, but in the world of religion and politics, it's a pretty big deal. Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), the ranking Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, recently asked six high-profile, hyper-wealthy Pentecostal televangelists for their financial records, under the suspicion that they're using their ministries for personal gain

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Crusading americans and their "holy war"

They brought down the “moon shiners”, including AL Capone by doing some IRS number crunching and it looks like Pentecostal right wing preachers are next.

I have traveled a great deal and I have met a few of these high profile televangelists. Most seem very sincere…..much the same as your right wing Muslim Jihad fundamentalist, just a little different flavor of extreme views.

The common ground they share is they both believe they are fully, completely on a “Mission from God”. Blues Brothers come to mind.

I do not believe all Christians or Muslims are so extreme, many are full of love, compassion for there fellow man, as the Christ had set out in the new commandment to “Love one another.” (Gospel of John)
With that in mind, I had a haunting conversation with a lady from the Ole South.
When I was in Atlanta, Georgia a while back an old black lady came up to me and commented that “I believe George Bush is the Antichrist. She then gave me her reasons”.
I got to know her over the time I spent in Georgia and she was in no way an extremist. Her point of view came from that of a compassionate human. Her world view was centered; deep in the heart of MLK’s peace movement….so to listen to her take on the present day events, politics, and movements at that time was fresh, honest and deeply troubling.


Christians beware….your attack dog Republicans are turning on you!


www.alternet.org
(visit the link for the full news article)

The problem I have always had with these Televangelists, and large organised religion in general, is the contrast between their lifestyles and that of their supposed messiah. I just find the opulence more than a little hypocritical.
The $1K suits, limos and private jets are a little too showy for someone who supposedly preaches the word of God - which I believe is supposed to be tolerance, love and humbleness

Of course the big Televangelists use the money donated to fund their opulent lifestyles and run their churches like a business so should be liable for taxes like the rest of us. The Church of England is a huge landowner and investor here too (Mmmm, investing and playing the stockmarkets...isn't that gambling and thus a sin?). I won't even go into the Catholic Church and it's stolen wealth

Just a chip in the wall . If they are legit . As much as i dislike "evangelicals"
Then they are safe i assume . Every organization should be ran like this at least once imo .

If they have nothing to hide . Then it should only help there cause . If there is something there . Then for the sake of there members . Something should be done about it .
Flagged to see what happens with this.

heres something very interesting about my good friend...
en.wikipedia.org...

his birthday....

reply to post by Britguy


Titus Lucretius Carus….a Roman poet who lived a few decades before Christ stated thus.. "But 'tis that same religion oftener far \ Hath bred the foul impieties of men:"[1

We often see that religion does not bring the peace and freedom it promises. Many times, with some exceptions, we see the opposite. My heart weeps for the millions who have died in the ire of deep seated fanaticism whether it is religious or political.

Mix the two together and you have a deadly mix.

Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ”
— Voltaire


Yet, with that in mind, this little political move by Senator Grassley smacks of Patrick Henry. He wanted to assess taxation upon the churches in Virginia. Thomas Jefferson and James Madison opposed it. They seemed to bring a balance to church and state.

This was part of the result…
No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burdened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities..”

Also, it may be a move to bring control over a person’s free choice to worship as he sees fit.

The outcome of the showdown will prove to be interesting. The constitution of the United States of America may, again, be in danger.
www.lva.lib.va.us...
Visit the above link to read part of Jefferson's view.

Originally posted by welivefortheson
heres something very interesting about my good friend...
en.wikipedia.org...

his birthday....

what about it?

reply to post by earthman4

Did she mean this?

One other variable worth mentioning is that Bush was elected in 2000, a year in the 20-year cycle of Tecumseh's curse, which declared that U.S. presidents elected then would not complete their terms. In 1811, the Indian chief Tecumseh was defeated in the Battle of Tippecanoe by William Henry Harrison. Legend has it he sent Harrison word that he - and "every Great Chief chosen every 20 years thereafter [would] die" - as a reminder of the death of Tecumseh's people..United States President Harrison did die of pneumonia in 1841. And with only one exception, all American presidents elected in a year divisible by 20 since that time have also died in office. This "curse" coincides with the astrological Jupiter/Saturn cycle, also a cycle of 20 years. The presidents who fell prey to the curse all were elected in years when Jupiter and Saturn conjoined in an earth sign. The lone president to survive the curse since 1840 has been President Reagan, whose 1980 election was preceded by Jupiter/Saturn conjoined in an air sign. When George W. Bush was elected in 2000, the Jupiter/Saturn conjunction was in an earth sign as it was with all of the presidents who did not complete their terms.
There are prayer groups in the U.S. specifically focused on protecting President Bush from the fate that befell the following presidents:



1840, William Henry Harrison-Died April 6, 1841 of pneumonia
1860, Abraham Lincoln-Assassinated April 14, 1865
1880, James Garfield-Assassinated July 2, 1881
1900, William McKinley-Assassinated September 6, 1901
1920, Warren G. Harding-Died August 2, 1923 from food poisoning
1940, Franklin Delano Roosevelt-Died April 12, 1945, stroke
1960, John F. Kennedy-Assassinated November 22, 1963
1980, Ronald Reagan-Assassination attempt on March 30, 1981. Survived to serve two full terms as president.
www.beliefnet.com...

I am not to sure what she meant by "his Birthday".
Very curious though!

reply to post by welivefortheson


In response to earthman4 and welivefortheson I found a website that seems to try to validate..."Is Bush the Antichrist"...

The Old Black lady may have had some spiritual insight into the above statement.

By the way, I met her when I was in Atlanta during MLK's wife's funeral. All living Presidents were in Atlanta for the occasion and lockdown was on. Interesting synchronicity.

I am not saying he is the Antichrist…..I am saying that anybody in law enforcement takes an interest in any of these ideas.

They can view the idea to be the building blocks to more extreme ideas.
www.bushisantichrist.com...

reply to post by earthman4


heres whats about it..
en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 30-1-2008 by welivefortheson]

It is about time! While they are at it they need to go after US muslim men who are secretly practicing polygamy. There are two ways they are getting away with this. One is they marry a US citizen but fail to report they are already married to one or more women in other countries. The other is they first marry one woman legally and the second in secret under Sharia law.

www.kcm.org...

Here are the six church groups who are in the sights of Sen. Grasseley!
Grassley wrote to Randy and Paula White of Without Walls International Church and Paula White Ministries of Tampa, Fla.; Benny Hinn of World Healing Center Church, Inc. and Benny Hinn Ministries of Grapevine, Texas; David and Joyce Meyer of Joyce Meyer Ministries of Fenton, Mo.; Kenneth and Gloria Copeland of Kenneth Copeland Ministries of Newark, Texas; Bishop Eddie Long of New Birth Missionary Baptist Church and Bishop Eddie Long Ministries of Lithonia, Ga., and Creflo and Taffi Dollar of World Changers Church International and Creflo Dollar Ministries of College Park, Ga.

These are BILLION dollar organizations!

Sen. Grasseley has a conservative voting record and seems to be doing this in response to some complaints from constituents.

I am familiar with all of the ministries, and I know that at least one of the preachers is very diligent about his belief system. He, namely, Kenneth Copland, seems to walk the walk from what I have seen and from what I have heard. (not that I believe everything he has to say)

I have heard of some money laundering being done through some ministries but I highly doubt that any of these groups would touch that arena of dirty money. Although if a cash donation was given to the ministries I doubt if they would ever do any research on where the money came from.

If you look at what the government is wanting from the ministries there are copies of the letters sent in the provided link.
grassley.senate.gov...
The question that I have is if the Republicans are going after these ministries are they not shooting themselves in the foot? After all, if you listen to the message of all of these ministers they support the Bush government fully, completely.

I once mentioned to a lady who is very intimate with these preachers that some persons consider Bush to be the antichrist to which she admonished me, walked away, and let it be known that I had “devilish ideas”. And I said this tongue in cheek!!

Originally posted by welivefortheson
reply to post by earthman4

 

heres whats about it..
en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 30-1-2008 by welivefortheson]

So...President Bush was born on the day of the Roswell incedent?!?!
Of course, I do not know what this could mean?? Are you saying that some think him to be the retarded offspring of a female alien who crashed her vessel in New Mexico and was adopted by Papa Bush?

Well...that explains a lot!

I almost feel sorry for the ribbing that Bush gets but this is good material for Jay Leno or David Letterman.

Originally posted by Britguy
The problem I have always had with these Televangelists, and large organised religion in general, is the contrast between their lifestyles and that of their supposed messiah. I just find the opulence more than a little hypocritical.
The $1K suits, limos and private jets are a little too showy for someone who supposedly preaches the word of God - which I believe is supposed to be tolerance, love and humbleness

Agreed, there are those who have used their positions for personal gain, and this is deplorably evil, against all known biblical instruction.

However, I have personally found nothing in Scripture to indicate that being poor or struggling would be advocated by God. If one follows the Texts, it is learned that the Christ was visited by an envoy of wealthy worshipers as an infant, who gave gold, frankincense, and myrrh, the last of which was often worth more than its weight in gold (wiki under "History"). Having no evidence, to offer, I yet propose that those men who came to worship the Child did not offer a few pennies worth of those valuable gifts, but likely bestowed a notable degree of the riches upon the family. So, it seems to me from the NT that even from the beginning, Jesus' family was indeed ble$$ed.

John 12:6 (NT) reveals that Judas stole money from the bag which appears to have been a treasury-like situation, something an impoverished Leader would not have had available. Since Jesus fed Himself and 12 men for three years in a row while traveling from town to town, there would likely have been a sizable amount of currency in this bag, as there is no mention in the NT of any of the disciples ever having noticed Judas' theft. Even at the "last supper" where the Christ tells Judas to quickly go do what he was about to do (referring to the betrayal of Jesus), the NT says that the other disciples thought Jesus was referring to Judas going to acquire more food, or give to the poor. Again, neither would indicate to me that poverty was the name of that game, what exactly does one give to the poor, if one is him/herself also poor?

Some of the disciples themselves came from fishing families (very wealthy business in those days) who had servants (plural) working on the boats with them. "Servants" to me implies 1) enough work needing to be done that multiple persons are necessary; and 2) enough money exists to pay these people on a daily basis. Again, not a poverty scenario. And these same disciples voluntarily left that life of apparent comfort to follow a strange man who simply admonished, "Follow Me." I submit that something quite incredible was displayed, though not recorded for us to read, for them to simply walk away from a stable life of solid income.

And as Deuteronomy 25:4 commands, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn, I find it Biblically supported for a person doing the good works of the Christ on earth (or elsewhere, may that exist) to partake of their fair share of the financial rewards, and the bigger the pie, the bigger the portion. True works of ministry (helping, not judging, lifting, not criticizing, listening without pontification, etc.) can be quite long and quite stressful . . should there actually be no reward in this "abundant life" that Jesus promised for those who suffer for His cause (who needs to be rewarded with "abundant life" in Heaven)?

One bad apple (or 100 of 'em) don't spoil the whole bunch. For the Christ-centered, the work must go on, and if there is a God, there will be Consequences.


[edit on 1/30/2008 by OptionToChoose]

[edit on 1/30/2008 by OptionToChoose]

[edit on 1/30/2008 by OptionToChoose]

you ever noticed how the cia's(the bush families plaything) pentagon has the same symbol that is used in satanism

Originally posted by welivefortheson
you ever noticed how the cia's(the bush families plaything) pentagon has the same symbol that is used in satanism

www.creflodollarministries.org...

So...the battle lines are drawn. Creflo Dollar ministries have quoted Jefferson bringing up the separation of "Church and State..."

Interesting. On one hand they demand political power....with the other they run for cover under the foresight of the founding fathers.

The religious right may be some of the first to go to "detainment camps" under the very government that they once supported.

It seems that they have called upon other right wing senators to try to "tame the shrew".

www.cbn.com...

The above link shows some of the "shock and awe" that has been brought into the "super ministries"......maybe a deal will be cut....the "super mega churches" may have to tow a government message in order to remain in a non-profit status.

Is the NWO putting the squeeze on religion?

CBN, Pat Robertson, has his people looking into the idea that this is a constitutional challenge!

bobbarr.org...

The above link shows the Atlanta Journal Constitution's response....

They are now on the attack!!

Sorry...in reference to the quote from livefortheson...There seem to be a lot of weird...Mason like...symbols in the USA....

Interesting...tell me more...how does it relate to the crackdown of mega churches?

I don't know, Jesus seems pretty explicit about renouncing worldly riches.

...I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Matthew 19:24

There's not a lot of room there for interpretation, though I am sure those who want to reconcile materialism and Christianity (IMHO totally incompatible value systems) will find a way to fudge it

So odd, Jesus condemned materialism and greed ceaselessly, never talked about homosexuality once, however the Religious Right embraces materialism and obsesses solely on sexual sins - which Jesus seems far less concerned about than greed, spitefulness, judgementalism, etc...

Originally posted by xmotex
I don't know, Jesus seems pretty explicit about renouncing worldly riches.

...I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Matthew 19:24

Very true...he blasted the religious right..the Pharesees and the Saducees..as did John the Baptist...he also said "the poor you will always have" when they took some mony from the coffers to eat...I believe Jesus was trying to bring a balanced approach to life....

Enough of my opinion.

The Scriptures forbid gluttony; should one, therefore, become pious and refuse ever to eat? The Denouncing of extremity does not Sanction prohibition.