reply to post by The Axeman
To add to your comments about Dr. Burns...
begin rant:
So far, the only source that claims all obelisks are masonic seems to be this "Dr." Burns. As someone who...like many of the brethren here...has
spent more than his fair share of time in the academy, one should question the veracity of anyone who calls themselves Dr. that much. I don't know of
any accredited docotral degree holder that refers to themselves as doctor, its a honorific that others use to address you. When I get a PhD (5 years
to go..sigh...), I won't run around calling myself Dr. LightinDarkness or slapping Dr. on everything that I put my name to. Its bad taste. The only
people I've known to do it are (a) honorary doctoral degree holders (who aren't supposed to do it to begin with, as an honorary degree does not
carry the Dr. title), and (b) people who get fake degrees just to enhance their appearance of credibility.
Upon further investigation, this "Dr." Burns doesn't actually hold a real doctorate at all. ALL of her degrees are from a "distance learning"
degree mill. I can't take anything this women says seriously when she can't even get a college
degree from a real school, much less a masters or PhD
/rant
[edit on 30-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]
Interesting Place to Find a Masonic Obelisk, page 19
privacy
reply posted on 30-1-2008 @ 05:15 PM by KilgoreTrout
Originally posted by LightinDarkness
reply to post by The Axeman
To add to your comments about Dr. Burns...
begin rant:
So far, the only source that claims all obelisks are masonic seems to be this "Dr." Burns. As someone who...like many of the brethren here...has spent more than his fair share of time in the academy, one should question the veracity of anyone who calls themselves Dr. that much. I don't know of any accredited docotral degree holder that refers to themselves as doctor, its a honorific that others use to address you. When I get a PhD (5 years to go..sigh...), I won't run around calling myself Dr. LightinDarkness or slapping Dr. on everything that I put my name to. Its bad taste. The only people I've known to do it are (a) honorary doctoral degree holders (who aren't supposed to do it to begin with, as an honorary degree does not carry the Dr. title), and (b) people who get fake degrees just to enhance their appearance of credibility.
More fool you - in the UK if you have earned a PhD you have earned the right to call yourself Dr, unlike medical doctors for who the title is honorific. In the UK it is certainly used as a title, quite rightly, with pride. And having worked in higher education, I have met many who considered it an insult if their proper title was not used. Perhaps your culture is different, apart from Professor, to me there is few acheivements higher than a Doctorate and I wouldn't be prepared to hide my light under a bushel. (I only scraped my BA so not much likelihood of that happening)
The recipient of a PhD should though only receive the title of doctor for pursuing an original thought or idea to some conclusion. A PhD cannot be taught so much as directed and supported. This is why the title is earnt, while a medical doctor recieves the honorific.
So, you are refuting a source because the person calls themself 'Dr.' I hate to break it to you, but 'real' Doctors are simply graduates as
well. You can call their surname distasteful and try to mock their learning institution, but that really doesn't do anything to disprove material
presented by said Dr. does it? reply posted on 30-1-2008 @ 05:33 PM by LightinDarkness
reply to post by twitchy
I am amazed that this has gone on to 18 pages because you simply refuse to acknowledge what everyone - masons, non-masons, even some of your fellow anti-masons admit: obelisks are not masonic, and neither is the original monument in this thread.
I propose that you are an NWO disinfo agent who is here to deflect what the NWO is up to by blaming it all on masons, in order to misdirect attention from real evil to a esoteric organization that likes community charity. Prove me to me that you are not. Remember, you told us that proving a negative is possible.
Lets see. Someone with a fake doctorate writing a book ABOUT MASONIC *AND* OCCULT SYMBOLS - she is the one making a link where none exists. There is no relationship between the institution of masonry and the occult. The obelisk is not a masonic symbol - even though she states it is. Of course she is factually wrong, but she still makes the fallacious claim. That must be what they taught her to do during her fake PhD - how to make outrageous claims to get rabid conspiracy theorists to buy your books.
I am amazed that this has gone on to 18 pages because you simply refuse to acknowledge what everyone - masons, non-masons, even some of your fellow anti-masons admit: obelisks are not masonic, and neither is the original monument in this thread.
I propose that you are an NWO disinfo agent who is here to deflect what the NWO is up to by blaming it all on masons, in order to misdirect attention from real evil to a esoteric organization that likes community charity. Prove me to me that you are not. Remember, you told us that proving a negative is possible.
Source
It is claimed that the word 'obelisk' literally means 'Baal's shaft' or 'Baal's organ of reproduction'. Source: Masonic and Occult Symbols Illustrated, by Dr. Cathy Burns, pg. 341.
Lets see. Someone with a fake doctorate writing a book ABOUT MASONIC *AND* OCCULT SYMBOLS - she is the one making a link where none exists. There is no relationship between the institution of masonry and the occult. The obelisk is not a masonic symbol - even though she states it is. Of course she is factually wrong, but she still makes the fallacious claim. That must be what they taught her to do during her fake PhD - how to make outrageous claims to get rabid conspiracy theorists to buy your books.
reply posted on 30-1-2008 @ 05:40 PM by LightinDarkness
reply to post by NewWorldOver
Perhaps you should learn a little bit about higher education. Anyone can call themselves a university, and give out degrees. You can create the University of Anti-Masonry, and immediately begin giving everyone a Doctor of Philosophy in Anti-Masonry degree.
Because people can and do this, there is a system set up to accredit universities. Accreditation means the institution and its programs have been reviewed by an outside third party to ensure that students are actually earning a degree, and are receiving an education sufficient enough to grant them the knowledge that their degree level indicates. While you must meet certain minimal standards to be accredited and it is a very serious endeavor, it is not difficult. Your local podunk state community college accredited, and so is Harvard. This "seminary" is non-accredited, which means it cannot even meet the most basic minimal requirements for accreditation. Why? One reason is that it's not real, its a degree mill: it gives "credit" for "life experience" (classic sign of a degree mill) and strangely, all the faculty have all their degrees from...the same degree mill.
Learn the facts. It's not a real university. Anyone who gets fake degrees like this and then throws around a title that people who ACTUALLY HAVE A REAL DOCTORATE don't even do is and should be subject to suspicion. She has no real credentials, and trying to fake them shows she has nothing when it comes to her little conspiracy theories.
You should learn about the world of self publishing. Anyone can publish a book that says anything. I can publish a book decrying you to be the chief of the New World Order. That doesn't mean its true. She offers no evidence for her beliefs, because she has none - she's feeding the rabid foaming a the mouth conspiracy crowd. And they are buying it.
No credibility? Check.
Number of source points refuted: All.
[edit on 30-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]
Perhaps you should learn a little bit about higher education. Anyone can call themselves a university, and give out degrees. You can create the University of Anti-Masonry, and immediately begin giving everyone a Doctor of Philosophy in Anti-Masonry degree.
Because people can and do this, there is a system set up to accredit universities. Accreditation means the institution and its programs have been reviewed by an outside third party to ensure that students are actually earning a degree, and are receiving an education sufficient enough to grant them the knowledge that their degree level indicates. While you must meet certain minimal standards to be accredited and it is a very serious endeavor, it is not difficult. Your local podunk state community college accredited, and so is Harvard. This "seminary" is non-accredited, which means it cannot even meet the most basic minimal requirements for accreditation. Why? One reason is that it's not real, its a degree mill: it gives "credit" for "life experience" (classic sign of a degree mill) and strangely, all the faculty have all their degrees from...the same degree mill.
Learn the facts. It's not a real university. Anyone who gets fake degrees like this and then throws around a title that people who ACTUALLY HAVE A REAL DOCTORATE don't even do is and should be subject to suspicion. She has no real credentials, and trying to fake them shows she has nothing when it comes to her little conspiracy theories.
You should learn about the world of self publishing. Anyone can publish a book that says anything. I can publish a book decrying you to be the chief of the New World Order. That doesn't mean its true. She offers no evidence for her beliefs, because she has none - she's feeding the rabid foaming a the mouth conspiracy crowd. And they are buying it.
No credibility? Check.
Number of source points refuted: All.
[edit on 30-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]
reply posted on 30-1-2008 @ 05:49 PM by LightinDarkness
reply to post by KilgoreTrout
Its very unlike you to insult people, so I'll hold off on reporting that post until you respond. I just returned from a conference on political science where a great deal of the professors there were from the UK. None of them referred to themselves as Dr. As I said - perhaps you didn't read - it is a title that others use to address you, you don't use it to address yourself. Anyone who runs around calling themselves Dr. has issues with their own self-worth.
But of course..the point to my post is that its a fake doctorate. Its not real. Its the same as me handing out Doctor of Philosophy degrees in Masonry.
I do recognize the UK is more caught up in titles than the US. It seems to be common practice over there to list off degrees after your name, where as here it is only acceptable if the degree is a doctorate or a professional masters/doctorate degree (not an MA or MS). I've seen UK people list their college degree after their name, while here it would be laughed at if someone did that.
The point to this thread is this: Anyone who gets degree from a fake university should be questioned. The "source" here did that. Not even her college degree is from a real university.
LightinDarkness, Bachelor of Arts in Political Science (Summa Cum Laude), Bachelor of Arts in Philosophy (Summa Cum Laude), Bachelor of Arts in Religion (Summa Cum Laude), Master of Public Administration
Its very unlike you to insult people, so I'll hold off on reporting that post until you respond. I just returned from a conference on political science where a great deal of the professors there were from the UK. None of them referred to themselves as Dr. As I said - perhaps you didn't read - it is a title that others use to address you, you don't use it to address yourself. Anyone who runs around calling themselves Dr. has issues with their own self-worth.
But of course..the point to my post is that its a fake doctorate. Its not real. Its the same as me handing out Doctor of Philosophy degrees in Masonry.
I do recognize the UK is more caught up in titles than the US. It seems to be common practice over there to list off degrees after your name, where as here it is only acceptable if the degree is a doctorate or a professional masters/doctorate degree (not an MA or MS). I've seen UK people list their college degree after their name, while here it would be laughed at if someone did that.
The point to this thread is this: Anyone who gets degree from a fake university should be questioned. The "source" here did that. Not even her college degree is from a real university.
LightinDarkness, Bachelor of Arts in Political Science (Summa Cum Laude), Bachelor of Arts in Philosophy (Summa Cum Laude), Bachelor of Arts in Religion (Summa Cum Laude), Master of Public Administration
reply posted on 30-1-2008 @ 06:25 PM by KilgoreTrout
Originally posted by LightinDarkness
reply to post by KilgoreTrout
Its very unlike you to insult people, so I'll hold off on reporting that post until you respond. I just returned from a conference on political science where a great deal of the professors there were from the UK. None of them referred to themselves as Dr. As I said - perhaps you didn't read - it is a title that others use to address you, you don't use it to address yourself. Anyone who runs around calling themselves Dr. has issues with their own self-worth.
I didn't realise that was an insult and I apologise if you read it as such. I was simply pointing out that if you have a PhD you should be proud to carry the title Dr, it is earned. I am sure that I know as many PhDs as you, I have worked for and with them, some I referred to by their first names because we were on familiar and equal terms, but this is the UK and we do status. If I was a subordinate or student I used their full title until invited to do otherwise.
I won't go into the pedantics as it is inappropriate but simply put I am not questioning your position just offering my own view. I don't think that either of us are wrong.
reply posted on 30-1-2008 @ 06:32 PM by LightinDarkness
reply to post by KilgoreTrout
I think the insult was the referring to the "fool" part, but its unlike you to insult anyone, so I'm sure it was a typo or some sort of language issue on my part. Anyways, apology accepted
I realize there are cultural differences between the UK and US, and as I said, I think the UK is more into titles than the US is - its a culture thing. Also, at the graduate school I went to, everyone called all of the faculty by first name. Undergrads didn't, but graduates did. And this was a top research school, so we're not just talking about your average university. In fact, one faculty member got mad at me for saying "Thats an excellent question, Dr. Faculty Member..." during my thesis defense. She demanded I call her by her first name, and I didn't know her all that well at all.
Anyways, I agree with you that neither of us are right are wrong, its just two different perspectives. I think you would agree though that using unaccredited doctoral degrees that are fake to give yourself a title is not professional - which is what one of the sources for the Anti-Mason side in this thread has done.
[edit on 30-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]
I think the insult was the referring to the "fool" part, but its unlike you to insult anyone, so I'm sure it was a typo or some sort of language issue on my part. Anyways, apology accepted
I realize there are cultural differences between the UK and US, and as I said, I think the UK is more into titles than the US is - its a culture thing. Also, at the graduate school I went to, everyone called all of the faculty by first name. Undergrads didn't, but graduates did. And this was a top research school, so we're not just talking about your average university. In fact, one faculty member got mad at me for saying "Thats an excellent question, Dr. Faculty Member..." during my thesis defense. She demanded I call her by her first name, and I didn't know her all that well at all.
Anyways, I agree with you that neither of us are right are wrong, its just two different perspectives. I think you would agree though that using unaccredited doctoral degrees that are fake to give yourself a title is not professional - which is what one of the sources for the Anti-Mason side in this thread has done.
[edit on 30-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]
reply posted on 30-1-2008 @ 06:38 PM by Rockpuck
reply to post by KilgoreTrout
Very off topic of course, but every professor I had in college that had a PhD usually introduced themselves as Doctor, then from there on it was more laid back and informal.. though I had one or two that you could only address them as Doctor.
Very off topic of course, but every professor I had in college that had a PhD usually introduced themselves as Doctor, then from there on it was more laid back and informal.. though I had one or two that you could only address them as Doctor.
reply posted on 31-1-2008 @ 03:29 AM by LightinDarkness
reply to post by twitchy
I refuse to go round and round with you, others have far more patience with this example of obvious trolling than I do. I cannot prove a negative, but since you can, I again ask you to prove to me that you are not a NWO disinformation agent deflecting what the NWO is up to onto masonry. Prove it. You can prove a negative, so you've said.
Can't prove a negative. I know, so cliche. In the way that 1+1=2 is cliche.
I am happy that you had a debate class. I, and others here, have _taught_ debate and philosophy. There is even one member here who has a masters degree in the field (I only have a bachelors). Yet, somehow, we all know: you can't prove a negative.
I can tell you if you walked into a debate and demanded that the other side prove a negative, especially when you have failed to prove anything at all, you'd get laughed out of the room.
This whole bounded rationality fallacy falls on its face because HOW IS IT THAT YOU know more about masonry and all its parts than the actual masons? How could it be that you somehow know this monument is masonic (though you provide no proof), and yet, you know it is masonic and know more about what is masonic...than masons?
I refuse to go round and round with you, others have far more patience with this example of obvious trolling than I do. I cannot prove a negative, but since you can, I again ask you to prove to me that you are not a NWO disinformation agent deflecting what the NWO is up to onto masonry. Prove it. You can prove a negative, so you've said.
Can't prove a negative. I know, so cliche. In the way that 1+1=2 is cliche.
I am happy that you had a debate class. I, and others here, have _taught_ debate and philosophy. There is even one member here who has a masters degree in the field (I only have a bachelors). Yet, somehow, we all know: you can't prove a negative.
I can tell you if you walked into a debate and demanded that the other side prove a negative, especially when you have failed to prove anything at all, you'd get laughed out of the room.
This whole bounded rationality fallacy falls on its face because HOW IS IT THAT YOU know more about masonry and all its parts than the actual masons? How could it be that you somehow know this monument is masonic (though you provide no proof), and yet, you know it is masonic and know more about what is masonic...than masons?
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