[HOAX]Michael Horns Billy Meier photos[HOAX] from C2C tonight

Originally posted by AGENT51
Ritzmann, apologies if this has been asked before, but are you really a miniature tree cultivator as Horn claims you are? And if so, did you put miniature trees in your photos?

Thanks for asking.

Seriously? No. Do I have a bonsai, and have I tried to raise them? Yes. I currently have one, a Hibiscus...which isnt at the point of looking like a big tree as of yet, but it's getting there. All that I've owned over the years have died. I try doing clips all the time, and I can never keep them alive. I have never had any worthy of taking UFO model shots with...thats just the truth.

However, someone at some time during the Meier discussion when I'd brought up bonsai had said bonsai leaves dont miniaturize. This is untrue, they do, and there's plenty of pics out there of nice ones that are really old. I made the statement that I'd been fooling with bonsai for years...so right away Horn flips out and calls me a miniature tree cultivator.

Lemme tell ya, people who can do bonsai...do it for life and it takes a long time to learn and even longer to grow.

It's not even a hobby...I just water em. My wife moreover takes care of them. I'm fascinated by them though, thats true.

It's just yet another thing Horn latches on to because his argument is dead. You cant talk around him, about any subject, because he'll latch onto anything he thinks he can use against you.

At one point I summarized that perhaps a bonsai was used for the Hassenbol sequence, amoung others. Since being sent a very interesting shot of the WC "ship" and the knowing the grain can lid approximate size, it's more likely either a fake tree, or potted small shrub pruned a bit to give it the appearance on a larger tree. But I dont think it's a bonsai anymore...it's a little big for that. Maybe 3 1/2 ft to 4ft tall perhaps a bit bigger.

The same tree is seen (IMO) in the Hassenbol sequence as the WC film shoot. There are several branch configurations and shapes that are simply too much to ascribe to nature. I have posted that here before.

Those I've shown it to in depth, think it's possibly not even a potted tree, but a fake one like a holiday tree, by virtue of it's raggy nature in the later shot of the WC in 1981 vs the Hassenbol in 1975. Fake trees do break down and lose branches as the metal gets tired of being bent.

The similarities are so striking between the 2, I'm really surprised no one's seen it before. Even the trunk.

So, short of it...do I like Bonsais, sure. Theyre neat. Am I some big cultivator as Horn claims? Hardly. Maybe if I had someone to teach me how I'd be good by now. This big cultivator has one, and it's a struggle getting time to take care of it.

Nope, more truth twisting from the Meierites.

[edit on 21-1-2008 by jritzmann]

Jeff, my brother...

Let's leave this nonsense behind us, Lear wants to scream that the Meier crap is real, let him, I think it's time to bid this board adieu and move onto greener pastures. You did exactly what Horn challenged you to do, and he drags your name through the mud for it. Horn was banned from these forums because of his psychotic, abusive behavior, as he has been from just about every forum he's infected. If folks can't look at the "wedding cake" stupidity and see the lights used to shoot THE MODEL reflected in the spheres, then they're never going to understand why these photos are so ridiculous. I personally deconstructed a FAKED photo in response to Horn's challenge, and then he proceeded to spout the most amazingly ridiculous lies and fabrication on The Paracast forums - it's all there for anyone to see. He makes up witnesses, can't back anything up with a single actual notarized document, and people want to take this moron seriously?

I say let them have the whole enchilada. It's often said that societies get the governments they deserve, and it seems that the majority of this community seems to want to believe in garbage, regardless of what their eyes and brains tell them. Belief is for the weak, those who can't use their own minds and intuition to see through the noise and arrive at some actual understanding of the paranormal. They want to look at the ridiculous wedding cake toys and believe they're extraterrestrials? They want to lap up the pap spewed by the son of the jetman? Let them, you and I are on a quest for truth and actual wisdom, we know all about the masses and their extreme sense of denial, they are not going to suddenly wake up and see the world as it is, they will only ever see what their insecurities demand of them. They are not seeking the truth - they could probably never really face it, if it meant leaving behind everything they believe, or want to believe.

Jeff, you and I have both seen things that most people here are so desperate to experience, we know how these things can totally screw up your life, we've had to adapt to this new reality and we've both been through the ringer with the two opposing sides - the debunkers who can't think outside of their educations and cultural conditioning, and the wide-eyed believers who will buy into any nonsense delivered by a slick scamster. We have battled with both sides - you've been doing this MUCH longer than me, and I don't for the life of my understand how or why - but at a certain point, you have to say, enough is enough. You & I know damn well why Lear is doing and saying certain things, we know what motivates Horn and the other Meierites, and we know that all of these people can give us exactly NO insight or information, besides demonstrating the ignorance of the masses.

Jeff, you know I am with you all the way, until we get some answers.

Let's learn to ignore the noise, and find the signal.

dB



[edit on 21-1-2008 by davidbiedny]

[edit on 21-1-2008 by davidbiedny]

[edit on 21-1-2008 by davidbiedny]

Originally posted by icecap
From what i remember Meier stated that he is the only person on earth that is currently being visited by extra terrestrials and that everyone else who claims so is a hoaxer. So basically either he's right and everyone else is wrong, or he's a liar. Am i supposed to believe that every one of the hundreds of supposed contactees is a liar?
I haven't looked up Meier in quite a while so please correct me if i'm wrong.

That's basicly correct. Bully Leier often states he's the only one with genuine contact. He leaves a few intact but puts his own spin on it, distorting it in such a way you'd need to get his information in order to find the "truth". The rest he debunks. This guy is more devious than you might think. Something I would expect from an ex-con, army deserter, fugitive and former resident of the funny farm. Recently I learned he also got expelled from India in the 1960s. Oh yeah, he's quite the enlightened prophet.
What's more amazing is that figures like Michael Horn even defend this aspect in every manner possible. Such people use double standards or find ways to justify just about anything. You'll find that eyewitness testimony is used as a supportive argument in the Meier case but isn't used anywhere else to its full potential, mainly because Bully Leier said otherwise. Maybe I'm going out on a limb here but that seems to me like New Age extermism.

This thread has gone way past any sort of serious discussion and has fallen prey to the stereotypical cliques . I'm here to break that patern if possible.

To Jeff and all the others that are completely 100% against the Billy Meier case. .
It's sad because like I mentioned before, yes I can, you can we all can find a way to say we debunked some part of his story by replicating some portion of it by our own means or trying to use statements and other somewhat moot, compared to the whole, points.

To deny ignorance means to also let go to the fact that just because you may be right on some issues doesn't mean you are correct on ALL issues or the one issue you think you have ground on doesn't claim the whole continent if you get my drift.

If there is ANY shred of truth to his story, then you owe it to yourself to try and understand what that implies.

I know that there are 100% facts to his case.
I also know his case has been tainted by emotional idiots like Horn, thieves and (dare i say it) disinfo agents..

If you are on this forum and you truly understand the mechanics of a conspiracy/story like his then you have to know that there is going to be so much BS floating around in the same manner as 9/11, JFK or whatever other major conspiracy of choice. I'm comparing those to this because if there is ANY shred of truth to this story then the impact is truly enormous.

Soo.. just because you think you have seen what you believe to be a false picture doesn't debunk things like:
His statements regarding flourocarbons years before anyone was discussing the issue..
or this link's video and how he stands in front of and then zooms..

listen...

i am from switzerland. i've been on billy meiers story for years. i not want to post his official site.. every click on his side is one too much.

billy meier is a proven FAKE. he is a HOAXER. STOP think that his stuff is real.

he's fooling alot a people all over the world, mostly americans. out here in switzerland we just laugh about that jerk. he might had a sighting one day but he didnt capture them on cam for real.. those are all fakes. every single picture and video from billy is fake.

his ufo buddy michael hesemann from germany who claims billys pics are real is a jerk too. that dude is payed to say what they want. he lost all his credibility within the ufo movement years ago. did anybody of you ever speak to somebody close to billy meier?

I DID... more than once. did somebody ever visited his home out here? (except jaime maussan) I DID...

his ex wife said on TV that billy is a hoaxer and fooling people so they pay him money.
he collected a lot of money!! this interview is on the TV show "the greatest ufo hoaxes ever". she was also in public many years ago here in switzerland.

when i meet billy he said... i am the ONLY person on planet earth beeing in contact with extraterrestials.. then he goes like this.. "hold on a second.. i get connected.. after 10-15 minutes he said: "i just spoke with the plejaden and they told me that i am the only one.."

i said "oh word?"
just remember his raygun pics.. still a believer? yeah LL cool J for president.

if you want to help this movement then please join exopolitics, disclosure project, paradigma research group, serious groups!!

forget about billy

Originally posted by Dulcimer
The most important story in human history! You too can learn all about it.

www.theyfly.com...

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Meier Case Update - 2007 - new three-hour, double-DVD $35.00
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thats exactly what i wanted to say with my post!!!

they fool people to get YOUR money out of YOUR pockets.
what kind of disclosure should that be? the disclosure PAY ME by billy meier.

why should the moderator doing publicity on abovetopsecret for billy meier videos?
YO IS THAT FOR REAL.. if so, then ATS is dead to me and this will be my last post.

Just things for the OP to consider:

1.) If you had real photos of UFO's that constantly visit you, why even make fake ones that are too obvious? That alone should tell you something about what you're dealing with here.

2.) Why has he burned negatives? If these photos were real you'd want to keep the negatives.

3.) When they touched his car and left those prints, they told him why those prints were left. Wouldn't you want to protect that car or at least the section they touched, to have it tested? Would you leave it outside?

4.) How come he never got pictures of the inside of the crafts when he was in them? I don't want to hear the excuse that "they didn't allow him to". They allowed him to take pictures of them flying and allowed him to take pictures of their weapons right? What's wrong with a couple pictures of the inside of the craft?

5.) He apparently went back in time with them and snapped a few photos. How come they didn't take him to the future?

6.) Look at those photos of the dinosaur and the female aliens. You can clearly see the dinosaur one came from a magazine, the female aliens all look like they came off a TV screen because you can make out scanlines.

7.) You said it would be very hard to fake those photos back then. Ever seen these films? War Of The Worlds released in 1953 and 2001: A Space Odyssey released in 1968 I believe. Look at the effects in those two films from the 1950's and 60's. Especially 2001: A Space Odyssey. Now tell me it would be hard to fake some UFO photos back then. Because obviously it wasn't. Trick photography has been around since it was first created.

8.) I believe it was his wife herself that had come out and said he faked them. Saying she found burned negatives and some of the models he used in a barn I believe. That's coming straight from his WIFE. Why would she lie about it?

9.) Think about the photos that showed female aliens and that ray-gun. Look at the hair and clothes. These are suppossed to be beings that are millions of years more advanced than us right? How come they shared the same styles of the late 60's and into the 70's? Again, beings that are millions of years more advanced and from a different planet. They wouldn't be wearing bell bottoms or have their hair in a bee-hive. That ray-gun shouldn't need a cord running to it from a power source they carry. I may be wrong, but it looked like the cord ran down the guys sleeve. I highly doubt a being millions of years ahead of us would need to carry a power source for his/her ray-gun. Don't even get me started on how ridiculous that foil suit looks and think about a lot of the alien movies back then. The aliens always wore a suit that looked like it was made using foil. They visit Billy and what do you know, we were right about the suits.

10.) Any physical evidence that he's been said to have is gone and what apparently still exists he doesn't want tested. What's that tell you? If you had physical evidence in your hands right now that could prove once and for all that aliens exist and visit us, wouldn't you do anything you could to share this with everyone?

I always felt, and this is just my opinion, that he might have had a couple real experiences at one point, but nothing to prove it. Shared his story with someone and that someone saw that some money could be made if they kept the story going.

You honestly think Michael Horn hasn't made himself a nice sum of money in keeping this story going?


[edit on 22-1-2008 by nightmare_david]

Originally posted by nightmare_david
Just things for the OP to consider:

6.) Look at those photos of the dinosaur and the female aliens. You can clearly see the dinosaur one came from a magazine, the female aliens all look like they came off a TV screen because you can make out scanlines.

8.) I believe it was his wife herself that had come out and said he faked them. Saying she found burned negatives and some of the models he used in a barn I believe. That's coming straight from his WIFE. Why would she lie about it?

You honestly think Michael Horn hasn't made himself a nice sum of money in keeping this story going?

[edit on 22-1-2008 by nightmare_david]

thanks nightmare david. that was a good one.

6.) the picture of the female alien is a proven FAKE. (like all of his stuff) i dont remember but it is a known fact from which TV show billy took this picture.

8.) His wife was on his side all the years. until they get divorced. Yes, he did it with small models and trees.

Hi there,
Has anyone of you guys have watched The Silent Revolution of Truth ?
If not I suggest to do it.
Then afert watching and hearing all the fact's that are there, you will have the pleasure to watch and listen to the biggest sceptic society member that is "trying" to debunk all Billy stories. In fact he goes afer 4 or 5 of them and he still doesnt do a good job, persnally he made me lough.
What I see most of you guys are saying he's a fake becouse? of pictures ?
and what about the sound of a beemship that today you wont make it,the film's that where tested by specialist's and all of them said that there are real, what about, the piece of material that he gave away for study, that was done by an IBM specialst that says on camera that he couldnt do it by himself, in fact it contained a material that is very rare on earth, but not in space, and later IMB said that the material was "stolen" from their safe ? What about the characteristics of the Saturn rings and other planet's that he gave, only to be confirmed year's later ? You think it was a lucky guess?!?!
going back to pictures, have anyone of you been to Switzerland ? I was couple of times where he lives and I don't se how anyone could make that kind of pictures and films like those that he made, as a matter of fact nobody did, for 40 years almost now. Remember in th 70's there where no internet no photoshop's no nothin, and those were the times that people were telling the truth more often than today, and that's why all of his material in those day's was confirmed as solid.
Im telling you just watch the film and you will se that there is more to the story of Billy, than just him showing all those things to us.
If you say he is fake my and question is why is he doing this and for what ???? not for money thats for sure.
Ooo and in this documentary you will se pictures and movies that you haven't seen before, trust me. U will se Billy filming hovering beemships and walking in front of the camera at the same time, and many many others. And all of them where comlitly studied and regarded real i the 70 remember. Now anybody could make it, but why nobody did so far ??? I could name also other thing's but I'll leave it like this, so you guys could find out for yourself's.
Learn about the whole story of his life and than judge the man, and not the other way round.

nice day to you all

oh yeah small trees, well 11 or more guys that work in that area confirmed that those where not small trees. but i guess his wife knows better...

Fortunately sanity always seems to prevail in cases like this, fakers and hoaxers like Meier always get found out but there will always be those who "need to believe" in this kind of thing and I will honestly say I am guilty of that charge in the past.

I seriously wanted to believe in people like Meier, but I also wanted to believe in Adamski, Lazar, Freidman, Betty Hill, Icke, Farrell, Lyne, Cooper, Strieber, Commander X, Cremo, Sitchin, Marrs, Swerdlow, Deagle, Sereda, Tsarion, Pye, Weidner, Bramley ect...... until the pattern lept out in front of me.

The truth is...they are after your money and will sell you complete fiction and fantasy as truth in order to sell their products and subscriptions so they can make a living in this genre of catering to the gullible to sustain a living off their wierd and wonderful claims.

PS: Religions have done this for a time imemorial and are no longer the esclusive predators on minds who "Need" to believe.

[edit on 22-1-2008 by mazzroth]

Jeff, thank you for your response. Its not everyday I get to talk to a John Lear AND and Jeff Ritzmann! I applaude you both in your searches for the truth.

Horn claims you threatened him with a lawsuit for showing one of your Meier replication photos alongside his. Is this true?

Also: Horn claims the alledged "trash can lid" photo was taken from a forum on Billy's website from a poster in Canada. Is this true?

The Wedding Cake video (not the photo): Has anyone ever tried to duplicate this? And if not, why not?

I know I'm in the minority alongside John Lear when I say I'm fascinated in Billy's story enough to give it some credibility. I've been investigating it for years. Some of the video is just too hard for me to write off, while some of the photos are in my "grey basket". I must say the "ray gun" photo threw me off, but accompanying that photo was a rather large burnt hole through a large tree, so who knows.

Again, I applaude you all for your keen eyes and investigative skills.



[edit on 22-1-2008 by AGENT51]

reply to post by rudenzz


Hi there.

As the skeptic interviewed for the DVD let me fill you in on a few things.

First, I was interviewed for 50 minutes and they used about 10 minutes. My original agreement with them was that the section you see in the special features was originally supposed to be included in the main film and then my full 25 minute presentation was to be used in the special features. Well, they cut me out of the main film and used that as the special feature. I had agreed on the editing of the piece as it exists because I was told that the complete interview would be included which would provide much more explanation on the topics discussed.

I will be posting a review of the film and we will be posting our recording of my interview on the www.iigwest.org website in the near future. I will post here when it is online so that you can check it out. Also, later this year I will be presenting a much longer lecture about the Billy Meier case at the Center For Inquiry-Los Angeles, www.cfiwest.org, and I will let ATS know when that lecture is scheduled. The video of the lecture will also be posted online after it happens.

Here are a couple of things to keep in mind about the DVD. They do present a lot of information that was new to me. Such as that when Billy was younger than 15 years old he was incarcerated in a youth prison for attacking a woman. He was later incarcerated again and then escaped from the facility and joined the French Foreign Legion when he was around 16 years old. He says in the film "I wanted to elude the court." When he was in Egypt he deserted from the French Foreign Legion and later returned to Switzerland whereupon he turned himself into the authorities and was locked in an "institution" for 2 years. They do not say whether it was a criminal or mental institution.

There is also an image of a new "ufo" in the film that is of a ring of light and sparks. In the DVD they say that this is another one of the crafts that visits Meier. However, in the center of the ring of light you see a man standing with his arm above his head. He is creating the ring of light and sparks by burning steel wool and then swinging it over his head. This is something that a friend of mine likes to do at beach parties at night. I need to go to work right now, so I will post the images later today.

For the record, I am glad that the DVD is finally released. I have acquired so much more data on the case and I have been waiting to reveal it until after the DVD came out so that they wouldn't re-edit the DVD based on my information. Which is something that they did regarding my information about the audio recording of the "beamship" and the nuclear power station near Lyon, France prophecy.

I will provide that information later.

Derek Bartholomaus
Independent Investigations Group

The "dinosaur" photo is what completely destroyed Billy Meier's case in my eyes. If it's completely proven that one "photo" is nothing more than a picture of a magazine painting, then his credibility goes down to zero.

Billy Meier is a fake - Everyone should realize by now that John Lear is just antagonizing you

Here are the images I mentioned in my earlier post.

This first one is from The Silent Revolution Of Truth DVD. This is a photograph taken by Guido Moosbrugger. It is described as a "fiery red big disk" with "glittering drizzle that rained down from that disk."


This is an enlargement of the above image showing the man in the center of the ring more closely.


Now, here is a picture of the same type of "fiery disk" with "glittering drizzle".


And here is clear picture as to how this is done by a person.


Here is what is done.

Take some steel wool and put it into some type of metal cage attached to a rope or chain. Then light the steel wool with a match or lighter. Yes, steel wool will burn that easily. Then twirl the cage containing the burning steel wool over your head and make sure that no one is standing within range of the burning steel and slag as it flies around.

-Derek

Originally posted by OSSkyWatcher
just cause you can reconstruct something 30 years later on doesn't make its fake, some of them look no more fake than a lot of photos many people believe to be real

Of course, proving that something could be faked in a particular way is not the same as proving that something was actually faked. But that's just the point. It's really up to the person making the claim to provide the positive evidence, because that's the only thing that matters. No matter how "good" a photo looks, it doesn't mean anything without verifiable and accessible corroborative evidence to back it up.

Unfortunately, after nearly 30 years, Meier has repeatedly failed to provide good, corroborative evidence to support his claims. We're talking about 30 years to produce something that everybody, skeptics and believers alike, can agree is alien. That's a long time. And during that time, he's been just like a school boy who didn't do his homework. Aliens won't talk, mysterious forces work to steal his photos and plant fake evidence, negatives go missing, and on and on. For decades.

At some point, it just gets a bit too ridiculous to continue even paying attention to the guy. Maybe there's a wolf, but Meier has used up all his cries over the last 30 years. So it all amounts to nothing.

reply to post by derekcbart


Derek, thats hysterical as hell. As far as I'm concerned, anyone putting any stock in this crap is an idiot. That there takes the cake and then some. I cannot believe the balls these people got expecting anyone to believe it...it's almost like they wanna get caught, or just know their customers.

~J

Originally posted by derekcbart
Here are a couple of things to keep in mind about the DVD. They do present a lot of information that was new to me. Such as that when Billy was younger than 15 years old he was incarcerated in a youth prison for attacking a woman. He was later incarcerated again and then escaped from the facility and joined the French Foreign Legion when he was around 16 years old. He says in the film "I wanted to elude the court." When he was in Egypt he deserted from the French Foreign Legion and later returned to Switzerland whereupon he turned himself into the authorities and was locked in an "institution" for 2 years. They do not say whether it was a criminal or mental institution.

Well, I've been pointing out this aspect for years. Wendelle Stevens mentioned Meier's not so charming 'exploits' in his book "UFO contact from the Pleiades" which is availible on the internet. While I don't like playing it like this - pointing out the character - I did felt it was necessary since Meier and Horn aren't reluctant at all to totally mangle someones reputation. They've done it before and mostlikely will do it again. So for me there's some justification in pointing out Meier's criminal record.

When you read something like the above, when Meier was incarcerated it puts the whole "prophet" angle in perspective. I mean lets face it, normally benevolent spiritual guides/leaders don't have a bad record like Meier. It can also transcend to motive. Given Meier's background it's more easy to explain all the questionable elements in the Meier case. Missing negatives, confirmed false pictures, blaming it on other parties and so on. The case is littered with it.

Recently in an episode of the radioshow the Paracast is was also mentioned that Meier was expelled from India on the charges of vagrancy. When you take all those negative aspects you'll see that Meier virtually left a trail of questionable choices. A profiler could have a field day with this material.

P.S.
Nice work on the picture Derek

Originally posted by jritzmann

or just know their customers.

Bingo we have our winner, nothing to see here move along to other less rediculous threads.

Originally posted by mazzroth

Originally posted by jritzmann

or just know their customers.

Bingo we have our winner, nothing to see here move along to other less rediculous threads.

LMAO...for sure. This witch is dead, and the flying monkeys have dropped from the sky.

Onward.