Was Jesus HERE??? (Shroud of Turin)

Stop, before going off on the topic "JESUS HERE", you must first understand where "here" is. It isn't where you may think.


The Shroud of Turin is a well enough known object. However debate rages after many years to the reality of it.

What are your Thoughts on the Shroud of Turin?

The Shroud is suposed to be the covering cloth that the body after being wrapped in is blanked between.

Personally I did a paper on the Shroud and I found both sides of the argument having valid points.

So what do you feel? The Shroud of Turin, Was Jesus Here?

again "here" is beneath the shroud of turin. However feel free to prove how ignorant you are by spouting off topic if you like.

[edit on 17-1-2008 by Incarnated]

I did a little study of this topic. If I remember the shroud was dated to soon to be from Jesus. As do I think its the one from Jesus even if its dated right. No I think most likely we had a core of believers that wanted to say we have proof. and here it is.

reply to post by slymattb



You didn't factor in several aspects including the errors in carbon dating processes and the facts that several effective aspects of events can change that.

The whole shroud deal is a fat pantload.

It's been repeatedly disproved, yet the "believers" keep come back round to it.

i agree. no friggin way dude!!!

Despite probubly being a fake, a lot of people show up when they have a showing of the shroud. I have seen photos of the piaza at the cathedral, full of people lined up to see it.
I was in Turin, ten years ago, and I made sure that I went to the cathedral, where it is, called Giovani Batista. They were doing restoration on the building. It was not open, so the best I could do was have a picture of myself standing at the door.
It was cool to be just in that spot, knowing how close I was to it. Some thing that reviered by so many people has to have a pwer in it, no matter what is was, exactly, at its beginning.

Ya but we both know that anythin that came from Jesus was put in hiding. I was watching a histoy discovery thing on where the ten commandments is. Some chistian believers say they have it but no one can see it. Plus I dont really believe a whole lot on what they cathics say they have. Its so easy to say we have proof of God and Christ and here is the turbin so believe. We know christians have done this in the past. I tell you what when they find the noah's arch then ill believe that we have something to use to proof. But God does'nt want proof he wants belief, and faith, I think God will stop all proof. Because with proof there no freedom of choice and faith.

How was the image made? I remember recently watching a show about it and it said that it may have been caused by radiation since the image has similarities to an x-ray.

Originally posted by ThePiemaker
How was the image made? I remember recently watching a show about it and it said that it may have been caused by radiation since the image has similarities to an x-ray.

You are correct sir!

To those that rush to state the thing has been disproven, they only wish to hear that, because it has not been proven or disproven. And they only wish it not to be proven so they without knowing state it is been disproven.
And it hasn't been disproven.

The only argument is the carbon dating. If you so blindly want to accept that is proof of disproven then it is on you. You should check into the errors based around the carbon dating process however.

They have done 3d imaging of it and it is shown of have been burnt into the cloth.

Interesting thread.

This is one of the best researched studies of this most interesting subject:

www.amazon.com...=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt/104-2435093-7655905?%5Fencoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

(not advertising Amazon particularly - you can buy it anywhere).

There is more research corroborating Kersten's conclusions.

You may know Jesus' body is buried in Srinagar. If not, this is a good place to start...

www.tombofjesus.com...

Cheers

I guess my objection to the Shroud of Turin has always been that if you lay a cloth on something that isn't flat, it flattens it out. The cloth hangs down and stretches out the vertical portions of the object to the side. Kind of like this, but even more flat.



You can try it yourself with a towel. Lay it on you face, and mark where it falls and hits your ears. When you lift it up and flatten it, the ear marks will be two feet apart or so.

That's not what the Shroud shows. The Shroud shows the image as if it was just somehow kind of hovering flat over the body, stiff and straight. That ain't how it would work! It's going to drape.

That alone is enough to indicate that it is not necessarily what it purports to be.

i do think god has the power, and does allow us to choose whomever
we wish to use as a route to the godhead. whomever believes jesus
looked like the figure on the shroud will not encounter negativity when
their time comes to meet the maker. throughout time people have
given different attributes to their god and their god's messenger. this
is the main reason i cannot adhere to any particular religious doctrine.
i believe god could care less!!! it really doesn't matter. the only thing
that matters is how you treat the gifts given to you. fellow humans and
your planet. all gifts to you.

reply to post by Nohup



Intresting observation but you're lacking calculating in that the body of "Jesus" was first rap in layers of clot, and the "shroud" would then sandwich the body like a tacco.

The Shroud isn't the cloth the body is rap in. The shroud is the clot that the body already prepaired is rested upon and under.

Also, one can only speculate as to what type of disillusion the body underwent. This is one theory behind the radiation burning on the cloth. That somehow his body just burned away quickly.



[edit on 25-1-2008 by Incarnated]

Not really defending or objecting to the shroud as my faith doesn't depend on artifacts. As much as people like to say it has been disproved, it really hasn't. They tried carbon dating it and have found spores that only exist in the Middle East that could date it back to the time of Jesus. So far so good but not so fast. They also found spores from Medieval Europe. There was also a fire where the shroud was once housed so that created further problems from those spores being embedded. In the end, we'll never really know.

[edit on 1/25/2008 by AshleyD]

reply to post by AshleyD



Wow you know about the spores and everything! Awesome! Note on the spores it is a antiarguement to the paint theories.

However, for you to say "we will never know" is a limited video of perceptual abilities.

Everying that is will be known, someday.

So to be fair, we may never know in this life time.

There's still the "blood" testing DNA and such.

Originally posted by Incarnated
However, for you to say "we will never know" is a limited video of perceptual abilities.

Oh, hush, Silly! You know what I meant and how I feel about such things. Like you said, all truth will come out in the end. What I mean is that scientists are not going to agree on the answer in this age. I know you and I see eye to eye on this view.

Originally posted by last time here
i do think god has the power, and does allow us to choose whomever
we wish to use as a route to the godhead. whomever believes jesus
looked like the figure on the shroud will not encounter negativity when
their time comes to meet the maker.

That's all very good, but you also know that the Bible is filled with warnings about false prophets and people being led astray by fakery. Does God want you to believe every trickster that comes down the road, with the idea that it doesn't matter why you believe, as long as you do? I don't think the Bible encourages you to be a sucker.

Originally posted by Incarnated
Intresting observation but you're lacking calculating in that the body of "Jesus" was first rap in layers of clot, and the "shroud" would then sandwich the body like a taco.

Unless it was as hard as a taco shell and stiff as a board, it's still going to fold and conform to the shape of the body. Also, if it's an outside layer, that's going to make it even more difficult for it to show any kind of detail, and absorb the "blood" that was apparently still flowing from a supposedly dead body.

So many problems with it, yet so easily ignored by people desperate to have their faith confirmed, not understanding that is what faith is all about. Too bad.

reply to post by slymattb


You are right that there are certain things conected to Jesus that have been hidden by the Church.
It may be that the relics had gotten into the hands of heretics, and used in an improper way, making them tainted.
There are always people who want to save relics. People would rush fires, while they are still burning, to retrieve bones from martyred saints.
At the very beginning of the Christian era there was a building in the Galilee area, with a painted mural of Jesus and the apostiles. So, the likeness of these personalities was handed down.
I disagree with you on the proof of God thing. I think God is happy to leave proof of his power, and His existance. I think people may put a little too much into the whole faith thing. It may have something to do with the concept of salvation by faith. People misinterpret it as meaning that you have faith, and in return, God gives you salvation. The proper way of understanding it is, God gives you salvation, and you own it by faith. Meaning that, you can not hold it in your hand. You just have to believe that God holds it in store for you, in heaven.

[edit on 25-1-2008 by jmdewey60]

Originally posted by Nohup

So many problems with it, yet so easily ignored by people desperate to have their faith confirmed, not understanding that is what faith is all about. Too bad.

Don't assume I am suporting this Shroud of Turin. I'm not in suport nor antisuport of the reality of the thing. Thus the name of the thread.

Was Jesus Here?

There could be serveral ways to explain away the blood, although in some ways it also seems sketchy that blood would seep through the rap cloths onto the shroud.

However under some theories the body of "Jesus" desolved by some bioelectircal advancements. This could explain the "blood" as gas builds up in the body fluids leak out.