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Why do we follow somethings in the bible and not others...?

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posted on Feb, 12 2004 @ 11:49 PM
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Just didn't want this thread to die...cause I think it is a very good question. I would like to hear from other Christians on this view....especially if you think homosexuality is wrong just because "the Bible says so".




posted on Feb, 13 2004 @ 12:23 AM
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I truly enjoy being Agnostic.



posted on Feb, 13 2004 @ 12:24 AM
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Just didn't want this thread to die...cause I think it is a very good question. I would like to hear from other Christians on this view....especially if you think homosexuality is wrong just because "the Bible says so".


Now, does the Bible speak for all the nonChristian's in this world that live in America who choose Homosexuality and marriage is on thier minds?

Deep



posted on Mar, 21 2004 @ 03:30 AM
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If we truely followed everything in the bible we would be

Murderers of women, children
Rapists
Crazy
Immoral
Full of hatred and racism
Bygamist
Women haters
Slave holders
Parent haters
and God still whispering in our ears, telling us to kill.........oops, that still happens!

again just plain crazy........ devoid of any morals

Good thing most people cant follow it. We would have definitely blown ourselves up by now.



posted on Mar, 21 2004 @ 03:54 AM
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we dont have town elders.....so i guess disobedient children live then huh?

"eye for an eye"
"thou shalt not kill"
i'm confused as to what to follow so i use the ten commandments is that ok?



posted on Mar, 21 2004 @ 04:39 AM
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You have to take the Bible in the context of the times when it was compiled.
The laws that it set down were made for Israel at that time and many are not pertinent to our societies today.

You have to remember that Leviticus was compiled at the time when the tribes of Israel were fighting to take over the promised land of Canaan and later to subjugate dissenters amongst it's own ranks. What you had was a loose conglomeration of tribes which were taking over land from well established cultures and societies. They had to have law to bring them together and overcome their enemies and it had to be harsh. Their laws were made to control their people during a time they were literally fighting for their existence. War, murder of non-believers, even theft and pillaging, were all acceptable to a race of people whose only way of succeeding was through force - there are even times in the Bible when God tells Israel to put cities and whole populations to the sword in their fight to take over the promised land. The laws became even more pertinent and stringent when Israel and Judea went to war with each other over different interpretations of how and where they should worship their one God.

Homosexuality was frowned upon not because of morality but because it was actually very dangerous for the tribes to practice. Israel had to grow in population. It needed numbers to be able to fight and sustain it's invasions. Homosexuality does not produce children who grow up to fight battles and therefore was of direct disadvantage to the early Jews.

Many such laws can be found to be direct comparisons to the law against homosexuality. Seafood and pork are banned in Jewish faith. The reasoning behind this is that an army fights on it's stomach and with no refrigeration and with these types of foods being deadly if not served properly, it made sense to ban them rather than have your army unable to fight due to food poisoning. Put the blame of banishment at the door of your God and nobody is likely to try and sneak a midnight snack!!!

The law of the Sabbath could also be said to have come about through the same means. An army or nation that is fighting to establish itself needs rest and recuperation - they cannot fight if they are exhausted. Enforcing a day of rest means that they will be refreshed enough to face whichever new trial awaits them the next week.

The problem arises within our societies when people believe that these laws still apply to them today. Sure, if we were at war in the deserts of Israel, few in number and facing a massive enemy, maybe they would be pertinent to a degree - you only have to look at things like the Patriot act to see how warfare affects law. But when people take the Jewish laws in the context that they were written they are literally stuck in the past. They don't realise that, just like anything else, laws move on too.

Once Israel was founded and before it's destruction by Rome, it moved on. Jesus created new moral laws and reinterpreted others to suit the needs of the people of that time. He made a natural progression of laws that conincided with how the people had changed from the time of when they were fighting for a homeland to the time that they had established it. Some old laws simply were not pertinent to Jesus' time. Remember he worked on the Sabbath and said "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath"? His society had been established - working seven days a week was actually beneficial.

The books of Law in Holy Scriptures were written to help religions gain a foothold, people gain land and societies to grow. Once these targets had been reached it was necessary for laws to adapt to the new societies.

Christianity has by and large adapted, with the majority of it's people not placing as much importance on the old laws as they used to. It even came about as a new religion due to reinterpretation of Jewish law - it was a peeling away of a part of society who recognised that the old Jewish laws were holding them back and new ones were needed. Christian law is also pretty flexible when compared to some other religions too, as they by and large, use the Ten Commandments as the foundation of law - a law that suits both times of peace and can be reinterpreted during times of war due to it's all encompassing nature. Christianity even has the advantage of being able to fall back on the old Jewish laws of Leviticus when times get hard - look to the Crusades for an example of that.

Unfortunately, Islam and Judaism do not seem to have fared so well and it's people are still living to the "war laws" and have had great difficulty in progressing. When Muslim societies revert to hardline Islam which is a harsher interpretation of those laws, they regress even further in comparison to Western societies and we can see that those laws do not suit nations who need to raise their populations in times of peace.

The people in our societies who choose to live by the literal translations of our Holy Books (Muslims as well as Christians) are people who are living a life to laws where they are still at war with both themselves and their neighbours. This certainly helps to create much of the violence and intolerance you see between the religions today.





[Edited on 21-3-2004 by Leveller]



posted on Mar, 21 2004 @ 05:13 PM
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Well I cannot speak for all but for myself. I fully know that the bible is mostly convoluted. I think 80% of it is someone trying to manipulate others thinking to their own not gods. I do however belive in the creator god and his son Jesus. I belive god is all and created all. I also believe god created Jesus to correct the bad things writen in the OT by men. No the Bible is not only the word of god some of god is certainly in it.

Jesus may not have been perfect. I think it is possible that god visited us in our form to figure out why we all sin so perhaps he endulged or maybe he did not. I do not think I can find that truth in the man made bible. I will know when he returns or upon death.



posted on Mar, 21 2004 @ 05:43 PM
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Ok, first, with gays, christians turn to Jesus for the way to live, yet he spent his life with 12 other guys. He spent almost all of his adult life with men, never masturbating, never having a woman, damn, either a superhero or a nerd. Well, if you go by what the church has in the bible anyways. If you read the books the church took out of the bible, Jesus lead the 12 male disciples, hiw lover, Mary magdeline, never a prostitute, lead the 7 female disciples. Just little things like that being edited by the church make a whole new situation.(One were Jesus had only male followers and the only woman close to him a whore who died a virgin after being around men all his life or the one were he loved Mary and had 7 female disciples)

Anyways, OXmank, I think you never really intended them to respond, did you? For you know they won't. The best one so far was the "well, they were written for those times." But this doesn't explain why they go against homosexuality today, if the bible was written for the people "back then".

Also, I wish we followed the bible, I have plenty of people I want to kill, and with the bible as little as them blinking to much gives me reason to kill them. Also, I wouldn't have to do any work, just buy a couple slaves, kick back and relax. Then I could go and have sex with my 14 year old wife that I raped and so forced her into marrige cause that's what the bible says she had to do.

But we don't live like that, thankfully the Vatican was reduced to the rapist/child molestor capital of the world. Did anyone know after San Francisco, Findlay Ohio has the second largest gay population in the country?

And to Mac, you won't burn in hell, do what Saddam did and make sweet sweet love to Satan.(From South park)



posted on Mar, 21 2004 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by James the Lesser
The best one so far was the "well, they were written for those times." But this doesn't explain why they go against homosexuality today, if the bible was written for the people "back then".


The answer is quite simple really - they won't let go of the law that was laid down in the Bible. They don't question, they don't look, they just blindly folow.
God is the ultimate belief for most people. They can't accept that religions change and adapt.
When you have put all of your faith in one concept it is very hard to let go of it or accept that some things might have had an ulterior motive - it goes against every grain of your psychology.
And when you have a church that has it's foundations in dogma you're onto a loser.

If only people didn't just blindly follow, they would probably find that they could worship their God with a joy and confidence that could never be given to them by a religion or church.



posted on Mar, 21 2004 @ 06:24 PM
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Lev 11:7 - (you are not to eat) the pig, for though it divides the hoof, thus making a split hoof, it does not chew cud, it is unclean to you.
Lev 19:19 - ...do not sow a field of yours with two different kinds of seed; and do not put on a garment woven with two different kinds of thread.
Lev 19:27 - Do not clip your hair at the temples, nor trim the edges of your beard.

So if you've ever eaten bacon, planted a garden with both tomatoes and squash, worn a cotton-poly blend, or shaved your face, you ought to be telling yourself you're going to hell for your wicked ways.
I mean, hey, if Leviticus is the apprent source of proof that homosexuals are going to hell, the rest of it applies too, right?

-B.



posted on Mar, 21 2004 @ 06:34 PM
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Salaams All,

Prophet Jesus(pbuh) came to return the Children of Israel to The Law, The Law that was originaly\ given to Moses(pbuh) that was not edited by man, even moses predicted The Law was going to get messed up by the Jews themselves:

And Moses went and spake these words unto all Israel.


Deu 31:2 And he said unto them, I [am] an hundred and twenty years old this day; I can no more go out and come in: also the LORD hath said unto me, Thou shalt not go over this Jordan.


Deu 31:3 The LORD thy God, he will go over before thee, [and] he will destroy these nations from before thee, and thou shalt possess them: [and] Joshua, he shall go over before thee, as the LORD hath said.


Deu 31:4 And the LORD shall do unto them as he did to Sihon and to Og, kings of the Amorites, and unto the land of them, whom he destroyed.


Deu 31:5 And the LORD shall give them up before your face, that ye may do unto them according unto all the commandments which I have commanded you.


Deu 31:6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he [it is] that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.


Deu 31:7 And Moses called unto Joshua, and said unto him in the sight of all Israel, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou must go with this people unto the land which the LORD hath sworn unto their fathers to give them; and thou shalt cause them to inherit it.


Deu 31:8 And the LORD, he [it is] that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed.


Deu 31:9 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.


Deu 31:10 And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of [every] seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles,


Deu 31:11 When all Israel is come to appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing.


Deu 31:12 Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that [is] within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law:


Deu 31:13 And [that] their children, which have not known [any thing], may hear, and learn to fear the LORD your God, as long as ye live in the land whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.


Deu 31:14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thy days approach that thou must die: call Joshua, and present yourselves in the tabernacle of the congregation, that I may give him a charge. And Moses and Joshua went, and presented themselves in the tabernacle of the congregation.


Deu 31:15 And the LORD appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud: and the pillar of the cloud stood over the door of the tabernacle.


Deu 31:16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go [to be] among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.


Deu 31:17 Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God [is] not among us?


Deu 31:18 And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.


Deu 31:19 Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.


Deu 31:20 For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant.


Deu 31:21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.


Deu 31:22 Moses therefore wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.


Deu 31:23 And he gave Joshua the son of Nun a charge, and said, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou shalt bring the children of Israel into the land which I sware unto them: and I will be with thee.


Deu 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,


Deu 31:25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,


Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.


Deu 31:27 For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?


Deu 31:28 Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.


Deu 31:29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt [yourselves], and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.


Deu 31:30 And Moses spake in the ears of all the congregation of Israel the words of this song, until they were ended.

Also

"How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

This is confirmed by the Quran also:

"Know they not Allah Knoweth what they conceal and what they reveal? And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book (i.e., the Bible), but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture. Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: 'This is from Allah,' To traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (The Noble Quran, 2:77-78)"

And

O Apostle! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, 'If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!' If any one's trial is intended by God, thou hast no authority in the least for him against God. For such - it is not God's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment. (The Noble Quran, 5:41)"

Thanks

Guerilla



posted on Mar, 21 2004 @ 09:32 PM
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Hey Leveller! You made some excellent points in your post. It has been my opinion for a while now, that the Old Testament and New Testament should never have been joined to form the Bible. I think the Old Testament is an interesting history of the Hebrew people, which has been heavily embellished by the authors.

The prophets/priests needed to have unquestioned authority over their followers, if they wanted to persuade them to commit their murders and fight their wars, for them. What better motivation, then to tell them that God said to do it, and they, "the prophets" were just relaying the message. What we end up with is a mix of ancient history and ancient mythology mixed together.

I don't think that it was meant for anyone other than the Twelve Tribes of Israel. It undoubtedly has some good points, such as Psalms, Song of Solomon, and Proverbs, but those kinda fall under the same heading as Aesop's Fables. They may provide good moral lessons, but so does Dr. Seuss and I would be willing to bet that there are not any real Sneeches with or without stars on their bellys.

OXmanK--
Don't let the lack of logical answers to your question frustrate you too much. I have been asking this question since I was about 10 years old, and have yet to get a legitimate answer. The only answer I have been able to come up with, is that those who quote a verse here and a verse there do not know or understand what they are quoting.

The only "law" that followers of Christ, better known as Christians, should be following are the teachings of Christ. There is one overall message that Jesus tried to impress upon those who followed him, "Love everyone, friend or foe, as you love yourself." Another teaching that Jesus made a point of repeating on several occassions is, "Judge not, lest ye be judged."

He never once mentioned homosexuality, let alone declared it a sin. If Jesus was the manifestation of God then it seems like he would have given us all the pertinent info that God wanted us to know, while he was on Earth. As far as I'm concerned, the only part of the Bible that has a direct influence on my life and principles, is that which is said to have come from Jesus. The rest of it is not totally worthless, but I don't feel the same sense of immortal Truth when I read their interpretations of Jesus' teaching. Just my own personal thoughts on the matter.



posted on Mar, 22 2004 @ 07:30 PM
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Well, I am screwed, I love bacon, in fact just had bacon bits on some fries, while wearing a cotton/polyester blend, and shaved earlier. Well, I am screwed, blued, and tatooed to go to hell. Well, have fun, will be a blast with Jimi Hendrix, Willie Nelson(when he dies) Kurt Cobain, Elvis, everybody else who has ever shaved, eaten pork, or wore a polyester/cotton blend.



posted on Mar, 22 2004 @ 08:15 PM
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some we you's tempted like sex


(suppose to be boobs)----------->(.)(.)


and other u's just do like going to church



posted on Mar, 23 2004 @ 04:23 PM
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Your quotes are correct your assumptions are not.

For example, the first quote the human defects one, yeah at the time in the old covenant they werent this rule applied and the only reason why it doesnt apply now is: since when do we approach god nowadays, we dont approach an altar in a temple, only by prayer. Jesus died so all can be "in on" this religion. Not just the perfect jews.

Since when do christians agree with no work on sundays, old jewish customs (shellfish). This is because these customs dont apply as God has already cancelled them when it came the new testiment The law didnt change (10 commandments etc) however because God still wants us to live clean non sinful lives as proof of our faith and salvation.

Jesus himself in the new testament says that this sabbath law doesnt apply due to it being designed so that no-one can escape from sinning to prove we are still human and impure.

Again, of course God doesnt appear morally correct. As Christians jesus is our ruler, remember when the Pharisees test jesus about the lady who committed adultery that she should be stoned, jesus said may the one who never sins be the one to cast the first stone. (Everyone has sinned so therefore how can you accuse someone else without being pure your self) Jesus will be our judge.

You are right many Christians do pick and mix. How ever the bible Christians dont they believe that the bible is the absolute truth (basically because God tells them too and if the devalue a bit of the bible they might as well devalue it all). There are many out there in many denominations.

Sorry God didnt make me a wonderful speaker but hope this makes sense.



posted on Mar, 23 2004 @ 04:34 PM
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In terms of bible literalists, that applies to symbology and metaphor within the bible. Now there are people who believe that everything in the Bible is the absolute truth hands down, but thats completely different. Many of the passages that OXmanK displayed were intended to take "literally." There wasn't symbology there, but that was just the way things were. So you can't just pick and choose what you want based on what was supposed to be taken literally and what was to be taken figuratively. If you have any kind of head on your shoulders, the metaphorical and the sybological passages are quite obvious.


ET3

posted on Mar, 24 2004 @ 08:25 AM
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You got a rat in your pocket? Why do YOU? Is the only question YOU have to find an answer to.

"Why do we follow somethings in the bible and not others...? "


Pure religious BS being rehashed over and over.



posted on Mar, 24 2004 @ 08:38 AM
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Meddled, if you had a head on your shoulders, you use the correct term of symbolism. (Unless you are quoting one of my favorite movies, The Boondock Saints)

My intentions are directed more towards those who point to the bible to justify their hatred/condemnations towards homosexuals. They all use the quotes of the Old Testament for this. I don't remember Jesus ever saying that we should the homos of this world? Correct me if I am wrong.



posted on Mar, 24 2004 @ 09:31 AM
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As far as I can tell, the guys who compiled the New Testament stayed well away from the question of sex. The only time it really appears to pop up it's head is in the Apocryphia - as in The Gospel of Thomas.

As I stated earlier, Christianity is a redefinement of Judaism. Islam, which came along even later is much the same. The religions adapted and came about to suit political/social needs of their given eras. People will always refer to the passage in the NT where Jesus says he didn't come to change the law but when you look at his life, he wasn't exactly a model citizen as far as Jewish law went himself. He worked on the Sabbath, made a frenzied attack on the money lenders in the Temple and on various occasions had to go into hiding from the Jewish authorities.

In my opinion Christians who use the OT as the literal basis of their religion aren't entirely following the religion that they profess too. It is clearly a book that was written for Judaism and in re-adapting it there are many things that do not sit well with Christianity. From "an eye for an eye" to "turn the other cheek" you can see how the two religions contradict each other. The vast majority of the NT teaches you that the god is a loving god, yet the OT teaches you that he is vengeful and jealous. Followers of Christianity must be able to draw the line at where these contradictions stop, why they are there in the Bible, and what their purposes of inclusion were. Unfortunately, a lot of Christians are unable to do this as they see no distinction between the two Testaments. The fact that both books were compiled for entirely different religions doesn't even seem to enter their heads.

Islam has gone down a completely different path. Although formed later than Christianity and thousands of years after Judaism, it has copied a lot of the precepts but then claimed them totally as it's own. Although it is often a direct mimic of Judaism, it shuns almost any connection and therefore can stand on it's own when it comes to moral interpretation. Followers of Islam don't have the problem that Christians do as they made the Koran a completely separate book, reinterpreted Jewish law and cut all ties. This wasn't too hard as it's base of core followers came from a community where there was no over-riding religion that it had to compete with.Christianity could not afford to do this as it's main early exponents were mainly derived from followers of Judaism. Without a basis in Judaic law, it would have been hard to tempt people to follow a completely new concept.

Understanding the history of the people in the areas where the religions were spawned helps to clarify a lot of things if you want to study scripture. You need to know what the people were doing, why and where to discover a lot of the meaning behind the Bible. Like anything else in ancient or modern literature, the cultures of man gets translated and embedded into his writings - the Bible and the Koran are no exceptions.

As an interesting afterthought, why not try looking at religions that have formed and grown in isolation, without having to fight for dominance amongst others? You may be suprised to find that they turned out entirely differently to the three religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam that many people follow today.



posted on Mar, 24 2004 @ 06:46 PM
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Boondock Saints is an AWSOME MOVIE!!!! Anyone who likes movies should rent this and watch it.

Anyways, no one who uses the OT to say gay is bad have posted, funny, isn't it? I can't stop laughing at these hypocritical idiots.



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