It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

"Why are there no whistleblowers?"

page: 1
3
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 12:35 AM
link   
I wanted to make a point aiming towards the the question in the title. I often read people asking that and also adding that too many would have to be involved. I disagree.

Side story. I recently met a man who worked at Area 51 for years (and he said his son now works for Skunk works) here in NC while working at a golf course. Obviously I had to ask him... did you see any aliens or UFOs? His answer actually surprised me. He said no, but that didn't mean they weren't there. He only got to work on his area of expertise. That's it.

Now on to the point of that story. He worked at that base for years and never really got to see the big picture. He worked on advanced jet propulsion. The place is so compartmentalized that while many are working on the project, only very few actually have any idea what is really going on.

Apply this to 9/11. One small team rigs the towers. This would be done over the course of a few months during regular maintenance and shutdowns. They don't know why they are doing it, and they can't ask why. Everyone operates on a "need to know" basis.

Next would be members of the CIA and FBI. Many had reported on terrorists flight training. Perhaps people were ordered to ignore those reports. Again, "need to know". This trend continues on any other indivudual you can think of that would be involved in this conspiracy.

So everyone chips in their little part. No one knows why. The planes hit. The towers fall. What would you do? Would you say, "I was given orders to rig up the towers. I wasn't told why though!"?

I wouldn't. Lets look at the out come. Three things could possibly occur from becoming a whistleblower:

1) The media/government run a smear compain and make him/her out to be crazy.

2) Everyone believes your story, and you are forever known as the person who helped pack the towers full of explosives and kill 2000 innocent people.

3) Assassination*
My lips would be sealed.


*Added by interestedalways



[edit on 20-12-2007 by Sublime620]




posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 12:39 AM
link   
reply to post by Sublime620
 


There is that third option

3.) Death



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 12:40 AM
link   
Figures. The one time I start a topic and I accidentally double post. I think it's a conspiracy by this website to make me look dumb.

I'm on to you guys.



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 12:40 AM
link   

Originally posted by interestedalways
reply to post by Sublime620
 


There is that third option

3.) Death



True

[edit on 20-12-2007 by Sublime620]



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 12:42 AM
link   
reply to post by Sublime620
 


You did it again!

What's really going on? And funny when I saw your double threads one had 6 views and one had 2 and you are sublime 620!



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 12:45 AM
link   
reply to post by interestedalways
 


It's a conspiracy I tell you! ATS is out to get me.

(That or my shaky Irish hands. I'll let you be the judge.)

[edit on 20-12-2007 by Sublime620]



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 01:27 AM
link   
Compartmentalised, definitely.
No one person can be blamed fully, its a whole group of people avtively or passively involved in the conspiracy.
Actively, the NWO freaks, and passively, the WHOLE MAINSTREAM MEDIA.
They are just as culpable tho, kinda like accessory to murder.

Look, i wont consider myself to be a braveheart.
But i do have a concience.
And its alive and very much kicking.

Did these 'teams' also get training to abolish their consicence as well?
Kinda like the Bohemian groove 'cremation of care' ritual?

Because i just dont get it.
I know myself, and i am being dead honest when i say, i dont care about fear or 'consequences' of telling the truth.
I am an Idealist that way, always will be.
Yes, so they might put a hit on you for opening your mouth.
So what?
I dont care, Fear or Love is the choice, isint that right?



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 01:41 AM
link   

Originally posted by Sublime620
I wouldn't. Lets look at the out come. Two things could possibly occur from becoming a whistleblower:

1) The media/government run a smear compain and make him/her out to be crazy.

2) Everyone believes your story, and you are forever known as the person who helped pack the towers full of explosives and kill 2000 innocent people.

3) Assassination*
My lips would be sealed.


Yes its kind of the military intell guy thats facing court marshall charges for sending an e-mail with what he thought about 9/11. (it did not go along with the official story)



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 02:11 AM
link   
damn... I posted my response on the other thread...

I'll let the OP go read it if he chooses. I'm lazy.



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 03:11 AM
link   
A possibility for the lack of whistleblowers *could* be that there's no whistles to blow on the macro scale of popular theories (futuristic weapons, holograms, switched planes etc). Maybe it's something much deeper and more covert that's capable of being contained within a very small circle that's mutually dependant on silence.

Just my thoughts



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 04:16 AM
link   

Originally posted by Sublime620

Side story. I recently met a man who worked at Area 51 for years (and he said his son now works for Skunk works)

I really think you should say "apparently" worked at Area 51...



did you see any aliens or UFOs? His answer actually surprised me. He said no, but that didn't mean they weren't there.

Doesn't mean there are any aliens either does it?



Apply this to 9/11. One small team rigs the towers. This would be done over the course of a few months during regular maintenance and shutdowns. They don't know why they are doing it, and they can't ask why.

Sorry, I don't get this. How could they not know why they were rigging a building with explosives? Apart from blowing the building up what other reasons could they be doing it? How long do you think it would take a small team to rig those buildings? Years? Were all the maintenance teams in the WTC in on it to?



Next would be members of the CIA and FBI. Many had reported on terrorists flight training

So, are you suggesting that there were "real" terrorists as well as the government plotters? Who is controlling these terrorists?



So everyone chips in their little part. No one knows why. The planes hit. The towers fall. What would you do? Would you say, "I was given orders to rig up the towers. I wasn't told why though!"?

Once I'd realised I'd played a part in the greatest atrocity ever committed on US soil I'm not sure how I would react - it wouldn't be good though. Again, I've got to say that the guys planted explosives in the WTC can't have thought they would be up to some innocent prank until it actually fell down.

The problem is that you haven't presented any cogent argument about what happened that day. All you have said is that some guys planted some explosives and some other guys covered up the terrorist flight training and that's it....

The problem is that you have completely missed out the actual plot: 4 planes were hijacked and flown into various targets: how many people were involved in that? Were they real muslim fundamentalists but controlled by the CIA? If they weren't controlled, how did the plotters know they would fly those planes into the buildings they had spent months planting explosives in?

You have also completely missed out mentioning the massive investigation into the events of 9/11: if there was a government plot, explosives in the buildings etc then why did the hundreds, if not thousands, of investigators cover it up? Your "small compartmentalized teams" thing is blown to pieces. If there was a governement plot the planning and cover up would have to involve hundreds, if not thousands of people.

Once you get up to that number of poeple involved in such a crime it's imposssible not to have whistleblowers. My conclusion: no government plot.



[edit on 20/12/07 by FatherLukeDuke]



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 10:52 AM
link   

Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke
I really think you should say "apparently" worked at Area 51...


Negative. He worked there. Everyone knew it.


Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke
Doesn't mean there are any aliens either does it?


Somehow I think the point went over your head... Get the mousewheel turning man.


Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke
Sorry, I don't get this. How could they not know why they were rigging a building with explosives?


Once again, over your head I guess? I didn't say they didn't kow they were rigging it up with explosives did I? I just said they didn't know why. READ!


Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke
So, are you suggesting that there were "real" terrorists as well as the government plotters? Who is controlling these terrorists?


Considering our involvement with al Qaeda I'd say there is no doubt that there are real terrorists. The only thing that comes into question is who is pulling the strings behind the scenes. I don't see how anyone could be surprised if we were still "in bed with the enemy".


Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke
Once I'd realised I'd played a part in the greatest atrocity ever committed on US soil I'm not sure how I would react - it wouldn't be good though. Again, I've got to say that the guys planted explosives in the WTC can't have thought they would be up to some innocent prank until it actually fell down.


Hey your call man. That's why I posted it. I really don't think you thought about the implications as deeply as you think, but it's your opinion.

And where are you getting "prank" from? Yea I'm sure elite demo experts get called in to "play pranks" all the time. However, I'm sure they've blown a few things up without knowing why.


Originally posted by FatherLukeDukeThe problem is that you haven't presented any cogent argument about what happened that day. All you have said is that some guys planted some explosives and some other guys covered up the terrorist flight training and that's it....


...Yes I apologize for giving examples. Again, you've missed the point. I am not discussing those people's existance. Instead, I was really trying to bring up a valid point about compartmentalization.

Even you, sir, have to admit that if such an operation were attempted that extreme compartmentalization would be utilized. 50 people could be involved with only 3 people having any idea whats going on.


Originally posted by FatherLukeDukeThe problem is that you have completely missed out the actual plot: 4 planes were hijacked and flown into various targets: how many people were involved in that? Were they real muslim fundamentalists but controlled by the CIA? If they weren't controlled, how did the plotters know they would fly those planes into the buildings they had spent months planting explosives in?


So completely irrelevant to the topic. Once again, I'm not trying to prove any theories here. Lets get the congnitive wheels turning. I'm only trying to have an intelligent discussion about compartmentalization.

If you want to discuss those topics, hit the back button. There are plenty of topics discussing what happened on 9/11. This is not one fo them.


[edit on 20-12-2007 by Sublime620]

[edit on 20-12-2007 by Sublime620]



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 10:56 AM
link   
Had to break this response into two posts due to its length.



Originally posted by FatherLukeDukeYou have also completely missed out mentioning the massive investigation into the events of 9/11: if there was a government plot, explosives in the buildings etc then why did the hundreds, if not thousands, of investigators cover it up? Your "small compartmentalized teams" thing is blown to pieces. If there was a governement plot the planning and cover up would have to involve hundreds, if not thousands of people.


You have missed out on the threads that talk about those investigation. I suggest you click the search button and type in "NIST". It could be helpful.


Originally posted by FatherLukeDukeOnce you get up to that number of poeple involved in such a crime it's imposssible not to have whistleblowers. My conclusion: no government plot.


Again, the point of this post was COMPARTMENTALIZATION. It's a big word but read it. The point of COMPARTMENTALIZATION is that it doesn't matter how many or who is involved. No one who takes part has any idea that they are doing it.



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 11:23 AM
link   
It would be easier than anything to get some Mossad team of sappers to rig that Tower set up: Tell them it is for Israel and the future of world Jewry and you could have teams begging to do the job, and stay silent forever. That is the key: The Israelis were the actual people who rigged the explosives in the Towers ( recall Dominick Sluter and Company?) and along with the Neocon traitors in high military positions here in the USA were able to bring them down quite nicely. These people are experts and have access in this case to ALL of the most advanced and secret technology known.

Recall the ' 5 dancing Israeli's '? When Chertoff and Mukasey ( now DHS head and Atty Gen.) let them slink out of the country quietly to reteurn to their Mossad handlers back hom in Israel, they appeared on a TV show and said that they were ' sent there to document the events ". Now, what does that mean? it means that they had FOREKNOWLEDGE. If they were there to film the Towers going down, then OBVIOUSLY Israel and the Mossad knew the day and time and had the men ready.

The Israeli's had been following the ' highjackers ' around the nation for years, making sure that they were handled correctly , that they left the clues desired while insuring that no one interfered with their efforts. They knew the whole deal, as the shadow intel people are the masters behind it all: The PNAC plan was put into effect by a core group of hard core killers determined to see their vision of a greater Israel dominating the region with no threats from its neighbors while still operating with inpunity and committing crimes against humanity beyond anything tolerated by any other nation in history.

Israel gets what it wants : America using IT'S sons and daughters to fight it's enemies for them while they abuse the people around them like Palestinians, etc. and massive foreign aid from the USA to them, always increasing by billions a year, the ' enemy ' vilified, such as Iranians and Iraqui's and Afghans and anyone else who does not bow to Israeli interests and demands. Who gained the most from 9-11? Qui bono?

ISRAEL, huge corporations tied directly to the current criminal administration in power here at home, the military, who love wartime, the apparatus that takes our rights away and surveilles us, such as CIA, NSA, etc. gaining more and more power and data on us, new and craconian laws passed on the basis of the lie that strip our rights away and make us a nation of torturing, lying, money grubbing Neocons in the eyes of the world, and rightfully so. Bush and his oil cronies win trillions of dollars and virtually destroy in less than 8 years the foundations of our nation and laws: Habeas Corpus, gone. Posse comitatus, gone. 4th and 1st Amendments, gone..and the 2nd as well, soon.

How much evidence does it take to wake an American up? How many ' inexpliacable anomalies ' does it take to get the old bean wondering whats wrong? How many laws of physics have to be ignored before the average guy figures out that something is rotten in Denmark? Or Washington, as it is? What kind of dream world are we living in when massive proofs are all around us and yet the common man says" ah, if things were that bad someone would know". and on and on we go.



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 11:50 AM
link   
This is what I posted on the shorter of the "double posted" threads:

On the intel side there have been a few FBI and CIA people who have come forward to raise flags about who knew what, when. These flags lead to serious questions about why the lack of action. Also Sibel Edmunds, "the most legally gagged woman in America" has blown her whistle on the intel side.

Rep. Mineta blew the whistle on Cheney for not ordering the shoot down of the plane heading for the Pentagon.

I haven't heard of any whistle blowers who worked on the ground in Manhattan . . . yet.

Seriously though. Whistle blowers ain't gonna do it. Personally I think we lost this fight. There are already reasons to lay charges against Giuliani, Silverstein and Christy Todd Whitman, or at least to investigate them. It's not happening. The perps will not permit an investigation of themselves.


[edit on 20-12-2007 by ipsedixit]



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 11:51 AM
link   

Originally posted by indierockalien
damn... I posted my response on the other thread...

I'll let the OP go read it if he chooses. I'm lazy.


I read it and I agree. People don't understand how compartmentalization keeps everyone in the dark. That's its purpose.

As someone stated on the thread, there have been whistleblowers. People from the FBI who noticed something wasn't quite right. Look what happened to them. Slandered. Career ended.

Now imagine someone coming forward who played a more integral part.



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 01:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by Pilgrum
A possibility for the lack of whistleblowers *could* be that there's no whistles to blow on the macro scale of popular theories (futuristic weapons, holograms, switched planes etc).


No, there are whistleblowers but some are being silenced through threats of being fired or even jail time for the government and military people.

[edit on 20-12-2007 by ULTIMA1]



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 02:16 PM
link   
reply to post by ULTIMA1
 


"Hmm, I have evidence my government attacked my country, but jeez I sure wouldn't want to get fired. I'll just keep my mouth shut."

I'm thinking somebody could blow the whistle before somebody else could stop them. It'd be awfully hard to fire or jail them, if their story was already out in public.



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 02:19 PM
link   
There are no whistleblowers because there is no conspiracy on this. But when you assumed or reached a conclusion that there is none because it must be that threat of death or they have been silenced already. Good reason.



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 02:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by BlueRaja
"Hmm, I have evidence my government attacked my country, but jeez I sure wouldn't want to get fired. I'll just keep my mouth shut."

I'm thinking somebody could blow the whistle before somebody else could stop them. It'd be awfully hard to fire or jail them, if their story was already out in public.


Not if no one believed them. We've already seen cases of people being fired. No one cares because no one takes the story seriously.


Originally posted by deltaboy
There are no whistleblowers because there is no conspiracy on this. But when you assumed or reached a conclusion that there is none because it must be that threat of death or they have been silenced already. Good reason.


Hey thanks for another informative post. Once again though, you've failed to post on the topic.

You see you missed a major point. I never said I'm proving a conspiracy. Rather, people such as yourself have claimed in the past that because of no major whistleblowers there can be no conspiracy! I just made this post to disprove that idea.

Stay on topic delta!!



new topics

top topics



 
3
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join