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Originally posted by LightinDarkness
reply to post by Jadette
Yes, most people can make that much and not pay a dime. If anyone making 30k a year is paying 15% federal, they aren't doing their taxes right. I know of no one who makes that little who is paying anything in federal taxes (state/local is a different matter). I made 25k last year and got everything back from the federal government.
The rich are paying the most taxes. I don't particularly go for the "bash the corporations" line that everyone loves. It is true that some get tax breaks, and so do I. I'm not going to slam a corporation from getting tax breaks when I don't even pay any taxes making about $20k a year as a student. The system is actually set up in favor of the "poor," as anyone who is "rich" gets taxed up to 30%. The money doesn't come out of no where - if the "poor" dont get taxed, and its progressive from there - thats right, those evil rich people are paying.
An estimated 94 percent of US corporations reported tax liabilities amounting to less than 5 percent of their total income in 2000. The corporate income tax rate is ostensibly 35 percent, but companies are able to reduce their effective burden by claiming various deductions and credits.
Also, I never said "ALL SOCIAL WELFARE PROGRAMS ARE NOT LOANS." I said entitlement programs. They are not the same thing. Entitlements are benefits which - by law - must be given to you without condition. Those benefits include welfare, food stamps, and (for now) state backed disability pay. I don't agree with that, but thats the way it is. If you take out a government backed loan, then of course they have a lien against your house - thats how ALL secure loans are based.
which includes the lower middle class (the "poor" do not pay any federal taxes).
The low class will go out and splurge, the middle class pay their bills, and the upper class (depending on where you live, making 70k in a rural town would be upper class) will sock it away in a bank account.
If taxable income falls within a particular tax bracket, the individual pays the listed percentage of income on each dollar that falls within that monetary range. For example, a person who earned $10,000 in taxable income (income after adjustments, deductions, and exemptions) for 2006 would be liable for 10% of each dollar earned from the 1st dollar to the 7,550th dollar, and then for 15% of each dollar earned from the 7,551st dollar to the 10,000th dollar, for a total of $1,122.50.
Originally posted by LightinDarkness
reply to post by Jadette
I have no write offs currently other than about 10% of my income goes to charity. But I also know people who don't give a dime to charity and they end up not owing a dime in federal taxes either. I don't know why anyone at such a low income level would be paying unless they don't claim the head of household exemption. But that usually means someone else is claiming you/supporting you and in that case - yes, you would be paying taxes with only one exemption (assuming no other dependents).
Citing conspiracy websites to somehow "prove" that we pay more in "corporate welfare" over regular entitlements does not constitute proof. It is also a completely deceptive method of trying to compare the value of tax abatements versus the value of government spending with two separate type of institutions with entirely different economies of scale. In any case, none of the peer reviewed literature I've found agrees with anything you've cited:
Hauflerz, A. & G. Schjelderupy. (2000). Corporate tax systems and cross country profit sharing. Oxford Economic Papers, 52: 306-325.
Pampel, F.C. & J.B. Williamson. (1988). Welfare Spending in Advanced Industrial Democracies. The American Journal of Sociology, 93(6); 1424-1456.
All of the data indicates corporations pay big, which is in fact why we have outsourcing issues.
And the spending on social welfare is increasing way out of proportion with inflation.
Frankly, I'm much more likely to agree with peer reviewed data and analysis over conspiracy sites, clearly biased political agendas, and randomly selected case studies in popular media. Of course your links are being deceptive: liabilities do not equate to taxes paid. I'm sure the authors of the quotes know this, of course, but its much better to push lies if they don't explain that.
About entitlement: again, incorrect. That link is talking about town assistance which is _not_ an entitlement benefit. Again, trying to compare things that cannot be compared. I am and have only talked about federal entitlement benefits. The town paying someone's electrical bill is not a federal entitlement benefit. In fact, I would be outraged if a town was paying for someone's electrical bill and didn't ask for the money back. They are paying them with MY PROPERTY TAX MONEY when we have charities and churches who do this WITHOUT using MY MONEY.
.
Epsom Selectman Bob McKechnie called the letter a courtesy to remind people of what they should already know - that welfare should be repaid
Originally posted by LightinDarkness
reply to post by Jadette
Uhh, some of them are conspiracy sites - and the rest of them are popular media. Again, I trust peer reviewed articles over those sources. And the data from the peer reviewed articles is completely opposite of your "sources." The data I see in those articles says that while certainly corporations receives tax write offs - social entitlement spending far surpasses corporate tax rebates and corporate tax rebates play a major decision in keeping a company in the United States. Did you even READ those papers? Obviously not, because they both disprove what you said. You know, sometimes you have to go beyond trying to read abstracts to look at data sets. Maybe you aren't aware of that. Sometimes the data appendix has regression correlations that the author does not touch on in a big way but nonetheless makes important points. If you refuse to actually read them and analyze the data, I don't know what to say. I'll just keep saying the data says your wrong, and I have nothing more to say. I cannot help you on your inability to understand what tax liabilities actually mean when it comes to GAP.
*Sigh*. Taxable income does not mean you do not receive it back after filing taxes. Everyone pays taxes all year long, and then EVERYONE under a X amount "the poor" who file correctly get it all back. This is simply reality.
For example, a person who earned $10,000 in taxable income (income after adjustments, deductions, and exemptions) for 2006 would be liable for 10% of each dollar earned from the 1st dollar to the 7,550th dollar, and then for 15% of each dollar earned from the 7,551st dollar to the 10,000th dollar, for a total of $1,122.50.
I never said you got money back for SSDI/social security.
The Katrina rebates are an excellent example of what happens.
Sec. 63. Taxable Income Defined
Sec. 63. Taxable Income defined
(a) In general. Except as otherwise provided in subsection (b), for purposes of this subtitle, the term "taxable income" means gross income minus the deductions allowed by this chapter (other than the standard deduction).
Matthew, S.D. (2002). Did the 2001 Tax Rebate Stimulate Spending? Evidence from Taxpayer Surveys. Bureau of Economic Research Working Paper No. 9308
The evidence demonstrates that any "direct check" from the government results in frivolous spending from most of the "low class."
In 2001, many households received rebate checks as advanced payments of the benefit of the new, 10 percent federal income tax bracket. A survey conducted at the time the rebates were mailed finds that few households said that the rebate led them mostly to increase spending. A follow-up survey in 2002, as well as a similar survey conducted after the attacks of 9/11, also indicates low spending rates
There is no evidence that the tax rebate spending among low income respondents would stimulate aggregate demand...
For the "poor" those deductions means a taxable income of $0 or a refund. I cannot believe we arguing about this. Do you believe the low class actually pay 10% of their income? You do not know that almost all of them (including me, and everyone I know) pay $0 or get a refund because after deductions the taxable income is 0?!
The rationalization of the Katrina debacle is interesting. You claim that the poor are always spending every dime on the essentials. Yet here - again - is a case where the people receiving this card lost EVERYTHING and DIDN'T EVEN HAVE any essentials. And yet instead of buying those essentials - they bought booze and flat screen TVS. How can this be if you are correct?
You have claimed that rebates to the "poor" are spent only on the essentials, then denied making that claim.
The low class will go out and splurge, the middle class pay their bills, and the upper class (depending on where you live, making 70k in a rural town would be upper class) will sock it away in a bank account.