New Freemason, having some doubts

Originally posted by Baphomet79
I agree with the idea of contacting the Grand Lodge Secretary with your complaints. I don't care how southern your state is, NO grand lodge should tolerate racism like that.

just as a careful note of advice - have great caution when making waves, especially as a fresh EA. Not that masonry is about isolation and targeting people... but it's certainly been known to happen. I've heard horror stories that started over a complaints, some even less serious than a racial slur.

That's why I said I would keep my mouth shut, no matter how I felt. If you are new to the lodge, and all of the brothers are acting like it's ok... there isn't much to gain by bringing it up. As far as contacting the Grand Lodge, that's over my head. Can't say I disagree, just some words of caution.

p.s. quite an abnormal amount of mason bashing going on this month, eh?

Most people fear what they don't understand, and confuse their fear with hate. There's no need in this day and age for any of it.

[edit on 10-12-2007 by scientist]

reply to post by LightinDarkness

I take people here at their word. If you were being sarcastic, I didn't get it.

reply to post by scientist


While not being a Mason myself I have to disagree with you. From my reading here racism would not be tolerated. It would be very unMasonic. EA or MM, it would make no difference.

reply to post by stompk


I brought up my points because of the procedural inconsistencies from my district. I have since found that while it is possible for lodges to opperate in the manner described the OP's lodge, by his own addmisson, does not behave in this manner. I found this confusing and asked him to clarify. I never once called in to question his integrity, I wanted further information before rendering a decision.

I do, however, agree with scietist and Skyfloating that I would have left the lodge without comment and not returned. If this behavior is actually occuring it is reprehensible and indefensible and more so if it is a Mason, in my opinion, as to me it is antithical to what our order represents.



Edit to add that I do not think I will get a response from Stompk. It seems he had a rather unfortunate encounter with the ban hammer. Alas, his eloquence and lucidity will be sorely missed.

[edit on 10-12-2007 by AugustusMasonicus]

[edit on 10-12-2007 by AugustusMasonicus]

Originally posted by 123143
I caught that comment about there being things on the altar that someone shouldn't see. This makes Masonry sound like a cult or a religion. Sounds pretty childish.

You boys always have to have your little secrets. You don't ever seem to grow out of that.

correction, it makes it sound like that to YOU. Hence, the word "sound," implying the process of subjective perception. Regarding "things you shouldn't see," this is not some taboo, but more of a tradition. There's no harm done, as an EA would be ignorant (aka profane) to the true meaning of the items anyways.

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by scientist

 

While not being a Mason myself I have to disagree with you. From my reading here racism would not be tolerated. It would be very unMasonic. EA or MM, it would make no difference.

I totally agree, but i'm just saying that you must be careful if creating a conflict (in the form of a complaint) with an officer, especially if they have been around for a while, and you are brand new. It's no different than any other scenario with a new person becoming part of an already close-knit group, not exclusive to masonry by any means.

[edit on 10-12-2007 by scientist]

reply to post by 123143


To intrepid: Yes, I think that racial slurs would be dealt with and investigated immediately. It is the type of offense that the Grand Lodge won't stand for - it is unquestionably unMasonic as you state.

To the poster that I hit the "reply to" button on: If you seriously think the MASONS are watching you, I am quite simply beyond helping you. Some things are sarcastic on the face of it, and that would be quite obviously sarcastic. Of course, I know that doesn't fit with your pre-conceived notions, but I AGAIN ask you if you want to start slinging unfounded conspiracies to do so in another thread, its way off topic here.

Scientist: I agree that the mason bashing here has been extraordinarily high as of late...must be all the kids getting out of school for the holidays. What better way to explain why your life sucks than blaming it on the big scary masons?

reply to post by LightinDarkness


Im actually glad these extreme type of anti-masons are here. It makes for fantastic entertainment, lots to talk about, a good laugh, and a study in psychology.

I don't consider myself anti-Mason. I don't understand the purpose of your organization. When you cloak yourselves in the manner you do, all you do is invite criticism.

People always criticize what they don't understand. LiD made a comment about watching people, which he claims was sarcasm. To me, the Great Unwashed, this wasn't sarcasm, but a threat.

All the ridiculous secrecy, like you're all 8-year-olds, just makes you look silly. On the adult level it seems threatening when you're the person on the outside looking in.

Originally posted by 123143
...I don't understand the purpose of your organization...

Its purpose is to broaden ones spiritual and moral virtues, to make you an upright man in the community and as a vehicle for charitable endeavor.

People always criticize what they don't understand.

Education and enlightenment are available to all if they only choose to pursue them.

All the ridiculous secrecy, like you're all 8-year-olds, just makes you look silly.

All what riduclous secrecy are you refering to?

On the adult level it seems threatening when you're the person on the outside looking in.

I stood infront of the Capitol Building once and wondered what was transpiring within. Does that make it threatening as well?

reply to post by Skyfloating


Good point. Although at some point I must admit they are sort of like one giant hive mind because they all seem to think the same, resort to the same desperate logical fallacies, and use "hit and run" posting where they are debunked and simply ignore you and leap to the next insane theory.

Take for example the posts by 123143. This entire thread could have been productive and legitimate, but the masonry haters jumped in and started derailing it and taking us completely off topic - which we are now - despite my attempts to get him/her to take his conspiracy spinning to another thread. He/she also uses the same opening volley that has logically and philosophically been proven to be wrong here at least one hundred times before him - "OMG ITS SECRET THERE MUST BE SOMETHING SINISTER." I could go on and point out to him/her that it's not actually secret since you can find out about everything you wanted to know on the internet - or that there are other groups that have closed door meetings that no one accuses of some secret cabals (like college fraternities). In the end, it will be fruitless because he/she will simply ignore what I said and/or move on to the next line of insaneness that the masonry bashers often use - "OMG!! EXPLAIN THIS ALBERT PIKE QUOTE I HAVE TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT, BECAUSE PIKE IS THE AUTHORITY ON YOUR SATANIC CABAL:"..and it just goes on...and on... and on...

What is most sad is posters, like 123143, cannot even begin to logically have a discussion because they start out with insults and sweeping generalizations. I still await a sane, logical discussion from these sort of people - but I think I'll be waiting for a while. And that's ok - the more they post like that, the more it is obvious there is nothing sinister in masonry.

[edit on 10-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]

Look at the archive history. This discussion has been raging since a long time. Get rid of one fanatic and the next jumps out of his jack-in-the-box.

You are right that threads are derailed. Especially this one. Poor guy is gonna arrive here tommorow and see his thread flooded with our stuff.

Maybe its time to take one of these anti-masons to an official ATS-Debate-Match.

I think I have more tolerance for them than you though, since I used to be a "conspiracy-theorist" when I was younger.

I gotta thank them though: They inspired me to become a mason. I happened to witness some christian fundamentalists in my life and said: "Wow. I want to become the opposite of THEM!".

why are you guys posting this stuff here, this is not a lodge, didint any of the admins see this thread to lock it down.
This is a conspiracy forum, not home lodge, and this is done with intention, this is what I'm talking about, you guys want to take over of this forum section this is clear propaganda, and totaly trashes the secret society forum section with disrespect to the site owners.

My problem is that the OP wrote it as "Free-masonry".

I've never seen a Mason write it that way with a hyphen.

Might be a small thing to notice but a Mason who has any pride would know how to spell it correctly.

reply to post by pepsi78


Hmm, my brethren, it now seems that our role in world domination has expanded to take over ATS. It seems as though dominating the world isn't good enough, so now we must turn to message boards.

It's sad when the anti-masons are able to turn the board itself into a masonic conspiracy. They have long since lost any semblance of reason or logic, and they are quickly losing a grip on sanity...

After all, we MUST NOT let logic and sanity prevail! THAT would be a detriment to the anti-masons!

And the topic derailment continues...

[edit on 10-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]

Originally posted by LightinDarkness
reply to post by Rockpuck

 

I can only speak for North Carolina and the few other lodges I have been at out of state, but I have never seen that allowed. In North Carolina, you cannot be present at any meeting except when it's open on your degree or lower, and the only time any meeting is opened on the EA or FC is only for the degree work.

[edit on 10-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]

I was thinking back to my initiation that I was present at a vote, but I do remember now that the day of my MM there was a vote on a new member, and I was present because I was a MM. Though I am trying to find out to rules in Ohio, I don't know why but I am still leaning on that as long as the lodge is opened in the lowest degree of the present brother, a vote can still take place but the new member cannot vote.

During all other meetings I attended as I did the degrees the traditional way lodge was opened in what ever degree I was and business went on as normal. It was funny seeing brothers slip up and make the wrong hand gestures.

I must confess that I do not see why you would not explore sites that are devoted to the fraternity and esoteric aspects of masonry when you are considering joining

That is a good point. Why is it Masons with problems find their way to a conspiracy board? I smell a conspiracy!

stompk .. Aren't you the ATS's newest proclaimed expert?

This is great. The Masons immediately question your integrity because you are second guessing your decision.

Everyone is from different states, thus different Grand Lodges... not all rules are the same. People are simply trying to get clarification.

This is a perfect example of why no one in their right mind should ever join the occult called Freemason.

I'm sorry... what was the reason?

Disgusting.

Please....

I caught that comment about there being things on the altar that someone shouldn't see. This makes Masonry sound like a cult or a religion. Sounds pretty childish.

On the alter? I don't believe that to be secret. It is a Bible if you wish to know.

I'm not upset, but you certainly appear to be. I'm not interested in being involved in your childish rituals. To me it's just more proof that some men never grow up.

Woah there FemNazi .. What is with the heavy hatred for our society? And men in general?

intrepid

While not being a Mason myself I have to disagree with you. From my reading here racism would not be tolerated. It would be very unMasonic. EA or MM, it would make no difference.

Masonry, being a poltical institution in a sense, and there can be real heated political feuds.. I have heard of many.. Yes, it is possible that saying the wrong thing to certain people or complaining about the wrong people can lead to making enemies with people who have connections with other people and so forth.

Is this the general case for Masonry and all Masonic lodges? No. Does it happen? It would be foolish to say it does not happen, and saying that it does should show we are an organization like any other organization.

Corsig:

My problem is that the OP wrote it as "Free-masonry".

I've never seen a Mason write it that way with a hyphen.

Might be a small thing to notice but a Mason who has any pride would know how to spell it correctly.

Could be because hes new, you never know. I think it is possible, though perhaps not likely he really is who he says he is. Best to give some kind of advice just in the event he really is in this situation.

And Pepsi ..

I honestly fail to see this as a Masonic conspiracy. You say we made this post, many say anti-Masons made this post.

The Oak, the same sort of thing happened to me. I entered a really bad lodge and really bad things did happen.
I would advise not to say anything to the Master of that lodge, or the officers. Just get through the degrees, and visit other lodges and you will find good people. It is worth the effort.
From my observation, stagnant lodges such as this are a small minority, but, could be a growing problem.
To other Masons that post here, you may consider that the perspective and education of a new Mason caught in this type of situation, is the product of that lodge, a Mason non the less, whether you like it or not.



[edit on 11-12-2007 by HDFACTORYCERTIF]

[edit on 11-12-2007 by HDFACTORYCERTIF]

[edit on 11-12-2007 by HDFACTORYCERTIF]

Message to anti-masons

A little problem I see with this Forum is that there are more freemasons than anti-masons posting here. A paranoid could easily get the impression of us "policing" these threads, as 7 of us gang up on one single anti-mason with fervent immediacy, without giving the anti-mason room to breathe. The ATS-member stompk got Banned yesterday, which adds to the paranoia.

In short: Attacking anti-masons is no way to soften them up but only to strengthen their misguided belief.

Religious-Fanatics posting here, therefore SERVE us to practice one of the virtues of Freemasonry: TOLERANCE.

Originally posted by scientist

Originally posted by Baphomet79
I agree with the idea of contacting the Grand Lodge Secretary with your complaints. I don't care how southern your state is, NO grand lodge should tolerate racism like that.

just as a careful note of advice - have great caution when making waves, especially as a fresh EA. Not that masonry is about isolation and targeting people... but it's certainly been known to happen. I've heard horror stories that started over a complaints, some even less serious than a racial slur.

That's why I said I would keep my mouth shut, no matter how I felt. If you are new to the lodge, and all of the brothers are acting like it's ok... there isn't much to gain by bringing it up. As far as contacting the Grand Lodge, that's over my head. Can't say I disagree, just some words of caution.

p.s. quite an abnormal amount of mason bashing going on this month, eh?

Most people fear what they don't understand, and confuse their fear with hate. There's no need in this day and age for any of it.

[edit on 10-12-2007 by scientist]

I was concerned about making waves myself. That is why I didn't say anything to any of the members there about the racist joking. I am from southern illinois, and unfortunately in my small community racism is common place. I was just dissapointed that it came up in the lodge.

I think I will give it some more time (with this lodge), if for no other reason out of respect for my grandfather, but if they continue with the racism, I will simply find another lodge. There is only one lodge in my town though so I would have to go elsewhere.

Originally posted by corsig
My problem is that the OP wrote it as "Free-masonry".

I've never seen a Mason write it that way with a hyphen.

Might be a small thing to notice but a Mason who has any pride would know how to spell it correctly.

Sorry that I spelled freemasonry with a hyphen. I am only an EA and noone has told me anything about how to properly spell it. I am not even sure what I am or am not suppose to talk about, I was only told not to show anyone the 1st degree handshake and sign. Other than that I wasn't told anything.

Maybe I am in the wrong lodge, because I get hammered on here for not knowing stuff I obviously should know. Apparently I have not received the proper education from the lodge.

On another point, I don't see why it is so wrong to learn about freemasonry from ATS. I have explored other websites, but I find the conversation on here more interesting. Like I stated previously, I felt I have learned quite a bit about freemasonry's ideals from reading masonic light and axeman's responses to the conspiracy theorists. To me they appear like subject experts regarding masonry, and their clear and reasonable rebuttals to the "conspiracy theorists" are what made interested in joining. Is that so wrong??

On a further side note, I tried to send U2U's but I have not posted enough yet to have that option. I have been on ATS for a couple of months but read mostly and seldom post.

[edit on 11-12-2007 by The Oak]

Originally posted by The Oak

Originally posted by corsig
My problem is that the OP wrote it as "Free-masonry".

I've never seen a Mason write it that way with a hyphen.

Might be a small thing to notice but a Mason who has any pride would know how to spell it correctly.

Sorry that I spelled freemasonry with a hyphen. I am only an EA and noone has told me anything about how to properly spell it. I am not even sure what I am or am not suppose to talk about, I was only told not to show anyone the 1st degree handshake and sign. Other than that I wasn't told anything.

Maybe I am in the wrong lodge, because I get hammered on here for not knowing stuff I obviously should know. Apparently I have not received the proper education from the lodge.

On another point, I don't see why it is so wrong to learn about freemasonry from ATS. I have explored other websites, but I find the conversation on here more interesting. Like I stated previously, I felt I have learned quite a bit about freemasonry's ideals from reading masonic light and axeman's responses to the conspiracy theorists. To me they appear like subject experts regarding masonry, and their clear and reasonable rebuttals to the "conspiracy theorists" are what made interested in joining. Is that so wrong??

On a further side note, I tried to send U2U's but I have not posted enough yet to have that option. I have been on ATS for a couple of months but read mostly and seldom post.

[edit on 11-12-2007 by The Oak]

That's cool. It's just in the context of this thread I was originally weary.

To be honest this place is fun but it shouldn't be where you learn about masonry. There are 1,000's of other sites to visit for that.