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Moderate Muslims Speak Out Against Extremism (again)

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posted on Dec, 2 2007 @ 07:52 AM
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In Sudan, thousands of angry protestors have hit the streets, carrying clubs and knives, calling for her execution, furious at what think is a lenient sentence. The incident has outraged many in the West who cannot understand the severity of her crime.

Moderate Muslims have been swift to condemn the events in Sudan. Daisy Khan, director of the American Society for Muslim Advancement, spoke to Bill Weir on "Good Morning America Weekend Edition" about how a school project escalated into a crisis over the Christian and Muslim cultural divide and why it should be seen only as fringe extremism.


you see a lot of this going on lately, moderate muslims speaking out against the extremists...
but you never hear about it from people that argue against islam as a wholly extremist religion. you always hear "why don't we hear the moderates speaking out against it"

islam, no worse than christianity.




posted on Dec, 2 2007 @ 07:58 AM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


I am not saying it is worse than Christianity, but what are you basing this "no worse than Christianity" claim on? I don't see Christians taking the streets in large numbers calling for the execution of someone for naming a teddy bear Jesus, or drawing a cartoon of Jesus.

Good for the moderate muslims when they say they don't support this lunacy.

Radical religious people are the problem. The radical muslims just seem to be the most organized.



posted on Dec, 2 2007 @ 08:25 AM
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Whilst it is encouraging that some Muslims are beginning to speak out against these extremists, let's put this into perspective.

14 very brave Muslims protested against the treatment of Gillian Gibbons yesterday outside the Sudanese Embassy in London.

www.people.co.uk...=full%26objectID=20192109%26siteID=93463-name_page.html

Whilst I commend these people, this equates to 0.001% of the British Muslim population, hardly a huge Muslim outburst against her despicable treatment.

I accept that various moderate Muslim organisations have condemned her tratment, but acts and deeds are what really count, talk is cheap and changes very little.

The sooner mankind does away with organised religion, of any kind, the better.



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 05:27 AM
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reply to post by Karlhungis
 


and i don't see muslims carrying around signs at soldiers funerals stating "god hates f*gs"
i could bring up other examples of different forms of idiocy from christian extremists

it's not the same type of idiocy, but it's still equal idiocy.
and the main documents of the religions are just about equal in terms of violence, sexism, homophobia, etc etc

reply to post by Freeborn
 


do you see many christians going to directly protest the westboro baptist church?

it's a small outcry because many people just don't want to bother with such idiocy at all.

and i'll agree with that last sentiment if you just remove the word "organized"

[edit on 12/3/07 by madnessinmysoul]



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 07:51 AM
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Well geewiz they must like us now, the War on terror is over, mand we can go back to living our lives..PFFFT.... A few moderate voices from the Muslim hordes doesnt make me warm and cozy feeling...Over a Stuffed animal???? They get a bigger turn out when they drag an American body through the streets and large "parades" after attacks on America.... Yo MadnessinMysoul, When was the last time a "Christian" popped an allah vest??? Pfft....dang I must not have seen the "Hate America First" logo...



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 09:42 AM
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Madness- That is a group of tweleve people who 'protest' at soldiers funerals.....and most are the same family!

Big difference....lame attempt by you to compare thousands marching in the street of Sudan calling for the teachers execution, carrying clubs and machetes to a group of 12 homophobes.

Moderate Muslims must be in the minority because many do not protest against the stone-age antics of the extremists.

Talk is cheap.......



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 09:54 AM
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The Catholic church backed Hitler.
Kind of really obvious point I know but if you want to trivialise extremist christian actions it's only fair that you consider what was sanctioned by the church only last century.
..then of course you have hospital bombings, KKK, segregation etc.



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 09:59 AM
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Is it all COINTELPRO? Al Qaeda is a creation of western governments and their war-industrial complex. It goes back far in history, just read "Confessions of a British Spy," and you will have a good idea about provocations. You see the British wanted Moslems to kill one another, to do their job. They "educated," Wahhab and the world has never been the same. Tactics and Strategy of war in such a manner probably date back to the Romans and even earlier.

The problem here is people won't read, and are too busy being hypnotized by their tiny little book of behavior written by others, that they do not think for themselves, nor question authority. Questioning "authority," is only possible in free and open societies, not in that of most governments today.

We are created equal but we are enforced as sovereigns when freedom is the highest priority. We are facing the same problem of encroachments incrementally in the United States, where our greatest strengths, our freedoms are threatened. If those operating to do that continue to have their way, no criticism and no improvement will be possible. The problem is always one of conflicting interests, freedom and individual rights is always superior to tyranny. Excessive secrecy only masks misdeeds, but not their effects.

[edit on 3-12-2007 by SkipShipman]



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

islam, no worse than christianity.


I think this comparison completely misses the point.

You can't compare two nations at completely different levels of social advancement by their religion. No disrespect to either Islam or Christianity, but you may as well compare the relative violence inherent in Christianity and the Roman religions.

Religion is simply the medium through which the Sudanese extremists are expressing their violent urges. There are bits of the Koran and the Bible that are violent in nature. There are bits of Harry Potter that are violent in nature. That is not the same thing as preaching violence.

It so happens that the majority of Christian countries (not all of them, by the way) are developed countries with bags of social responsibility built into their societies - not by religion, but as well as. It so happens that a certain proportion of Muslim countries are under developed countries like the Sudan.

The role of the religions themselves in inspiring the bloodthirsty side of the societies in question is debatable. Yes there is the Caliphate concept in Islam - yes there is the believer or infidel concept too. But Christianity has had plenty of "we're 100% right, everyone else is 100% wrong" moments in its history too - from the crusades to the Spanish Inquisition, Henry VIII and more.

The difference is the Western Christian world has developed societies that at least preach the idea of religion as a peaceful movement, rather than an excuse for political conquest. The fundaments of Christianity have not changed in 2000 years. People's use of religion has.

There's no reason whatever to suppose that people's use of Islam in the future will be any different if Islamic societies continue to develop. Blaming Islam as an entity is like blaming the violence of the Roman gods for the barbarism of the Roman Empire.

Shout against Islam and you waste your breath. Shout against the real "causes" (and I use speech marks because I do not want to make a comment on the validity of those causes here) of hatred of the West, that made those people march out calling for the teacher to be shot in Sudan. Those "causes" are envy, perceived discrimination and relative material poverty.

And that, dear friends, is the be all and end all of the whole thing.



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 11:24 AM
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I think there's enough examples now of muslims speaking out against extremism and violence on their behalf. As for the disparity in numbers well it's always easier to rouse the nutters into a rabble rousing mob than it is to get normal everday people onto the streets to protest.

I think Islam has more of a problem with radical extremism than Christianity does, that doesn't nevvessarily prove anything in a p***ing contest between the two though. Remember a lot of violence and extremism is probably kept damped down by our secular, impartial laws, a lot of the hysteria in Islam originates from poorer country's with govt's at the least sympathetic to the extremist cause. Imagine if you had a highly sympathetic theocratic govt in place in the US who covertly espoused the veiws of Christian extremists.



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 12:35 PM
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the only problem is that its the extremists in christianity and islam who are actually really living by scripture and really following the teachings and really doing what koran/bible says.

The moderates are the ones who havent let themselves be brainwashed to that extent, but they are in denial of what their teachings really teach.

Try to live by the scripture fully. You´d be put in to a psychiatry in no time. And rightly so.

[edit on 3-12-2007 by Skyfloating]



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


I deliberately state "organised" religion as I firmly believe that everyone has a basic, intrinsic right to believe in what they want to believe.
Whether I like it or not religion plays a big part in some individuals life and provides a lot of comfort for lonely people and gives a sense of direction and purpose for others in what would otherwise be a senseless, meaningless existence.

I personally will not buy into the "your reward is after you die" lie which has been used to control and manipulate generation after generation in every society since the dawn of creation, (or the big bang to be more scientific and accurate).

Mankind has exploited the weaknesses and fallability of fellow human beings to further hidden agendas and to control the masses.

Even though I personally am a devout agnostic, (is such a thing possible??), but I genuinely believe the spirituality of religion is not necessarily wrong, but the imposition of organisation and creed and dogma is inherently wrong and has held back mankind for centuries.

We have got where we are DESPITE religion, not because of it.
Where could we get without it? The sky literally is the limit, (and possibly even beyond, who knows?)

My opinion, for what little it's worth.



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


ok then, you're entitled to your opinion here and it seems like a well thought out one at that.



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
Whilst I commend these people, this equates to 0.001% of the British Muslim population, hardly a huge Muslim outburst against her despicable treatment.


But it's acceptable to use 0.02% of the population of Khartoum( the percentage of the pop. that were calling for her head) to justify blasting Muslims?



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


Allthough I have only been a member of ATS a relatively short time, I have been here long enough to know that you would not be quoting 0.02% without any supporting evidence, so, the obvious question, where do you get the 0.02% figure.

The point I was trying to make, maybe quite poorly, was that whilst some Islamic groups have indeed spoken out recently against some acts of Muslim extremism, very few take positive action.

One of the main reasons for this is the fear of retribution from within their own communities.
Another reason is that various interpretations of Islamic creed dictates that Muslims cannot take any action against other Muslims who are involved in any Jihadist activities or against violations of Muslim sensibilities and Islamic teachings.

I accept that not all Muslims are terrorists or extremists, but, and it is a very big but, most Muslims are very limited in how they can publicly decry extremist activities due to the very tenets of their religion.
Islam can be a most unforgiving, uncompromising and demanding religion.



posted on Dec, 3 2007 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
Allthough I have only been a member of ATS a relatively short time, I have been here long enough to know that you would not be quoting 0.02% without any supporting evidence, so, the obvious question, where do you get the 0.02% figure.


Yup. There were approx. 1000 screaming for the ladies head(news sources). Khartoum is a city of 5,000,000 people. AND I'm just talking about the city. Basic math. 0.02%.


I accept that not all Muslims are terrorists or extremists, but, and it is a very big but, most Muslims are very limited in how they can publicly decry extremist activities due to the very tenets of their religion.
Islam can be a most unforgiving, uncompromising and demanding religion.


In certain countries. The Sudan would be one of those. Not all of Islam.



posted on Dec, 4 2007 @ 12:52 PM
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Interesting that threads decrying Muslims garners 40+ pages, while one pointing out exactly what the decriers are asking for dies on page 1.



posted on Dec, 4 2007 @ 01:35 PM
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Yes, some Muslims defended Gillian Gibbons and for that I commend them, (especially the 14 who protested in London.
)

I think it is also fair to say that far more Muslim groups / organisations etc spoke out about this than any other occurrence of Muslim extremism / intolerance, certainly far more than I ever thought would.

I wonder why? Maybe because most Muslims were confident in condemning this action as there was not as much fear of retribution from within their own communities.

Why is this thread dying?
I don't know, maybe because people who are interested in this and similair topics are debating on other threads.

Reports differ as to how many people protested in Khartoum;
www.msnbc.msn.com...

news.bbc.co.uk...

I accept that it was a relatively small % of the Khartoum population which was protesting but I'm sure you'll agree that even 1,000 protesters is a lot more influential, threatening etc than 14.
A thousand is a good sized mob, 14 is barely a gang.

Moving forward, let's hope that this Muslim conscience is the shape of things to come and that the same Muslim groups / organisations speak out if or when another atrocity is acted out in Allahs name.

I suspect that it won't be long till we find out, hope I'm wrong.



posted on Dec, 4 2007 @ 01:38 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


and this is the 4th thread (i think) i've had showing specific instances of moderate muslims bashing the extremists....
all died pretty quickly

funny, ain't it?

[edit on 12/4/07 by madnessinmysoul]



posted on Dec, 4 2007 @ 06:33 PM
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reply to post by ferretman2
 


i presume they dont work or go to Uni and so forth like most
muslim brits, (i am on about fantics who protest alot)

i would rather work on my studies then protest

so in reality i dont take a fudge that you think only a minority are protesting against these fantics as the rest of brits we have a life



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