The Indian Lake Project

Two things:

1) No matter what people say, and I am a person who knows absolutely nothing about electronic manipulation of photos, I find this story very intriguing, and as soon as warmer weather is upon us I plan to take a trip to the area to see what I may be able to find. I have already ordered the USGS topo maps for the area and plan to start there as far as guessing where likely locations for any of this activity would be.

2) In my spare time I've been mulling over different pieces of this puzzle in my mind. Yesterday I got a new bit of information that might prove helpful. Regarding the photo showing the Native American-style head logo. I saved the photo and have been showing it to various military history buffs that I know. Of course, I don't tell them where I saw it or what the context was. Yesterday a friend showed me the US Army Heraldry website where he had been looking, and he found something interesting. Apparently the 98th Infantry Division, from 1943-1967, had an insignia that could be similar to the one in the ILP photo. And they were located in New York. Unfortunately the site only shows the unit's current insignia, which is not much at all like the one in the ILP photo, however the person who remembered the old 98th insignia said that as far as he could remember (he's getting older and memory isn't what it once was) it did bear at least a close resemblance to the logo shown in the ILP photo. I realize this does not provide any more proof that the ILP existed, but perhaps it is a step in the direction of narrowing down where those photos may have come from.

reply to post by therainmaker


Excellent.

I'm still interested in this story and am glad someone has brought further indication of the possibility of truth. I feel a significance by the recognition from someone who revealed more than an adequate amount of related info that matches in form. The info dates and originates within the era of this story.. is it significant ?

I guess since you've been looking into this, how many Indian head logos HAVE you found. Matches aren't necessary but the subject is. If we have 400 bases and only 3 matches of an Indian head or a similar Native American theme to this story then the odds this is a coincidence drops REAL low.
if there are 95 bases out of 400 that have native American Indian head theme logos then this doesn't mean all that much.

Don't broadcast the exact date you are going up there btw
EDITE TO ADD THIS LINK OF ABOVE REFENCED INSIGNIA

b

[edit on 23-2-2008 by Bspiracy]

I still have an open mind on this.
The fact that JOHNS won't give co-ordinates on the alleged base, I find suspect.
BUT..................the Indian Lake Town logo, is indeed an Indian Head, very similar to the one in the photo!

I'm calling hoax on this and here is the proof. So I started reading this from the start and I immediately noticed something fishy. On about the fourth post from the start, it's labeled "Posted by Johns at 6:11," there are pictures of three children. I thought the water/wear damage looked really fishy, similar to photoshop brushes I have used before. You can obviously tell he used the same brush/stamp at least 3 times. Twice in the "Roger" photo and once in the "Sally". The brush appears in different sizes indicating he simply changed the point size in photoshop. The brush consists of a long vertical stripe accompanied with the iconic blot that is circled.

I think Russian's post should have put to rest any further discussions regarding whether or not this is a hoax...it is.

It looks and sounds an awful lot like the MKULTRA Project.

Hmm, I thought I saw a new post on this thread within the last week or so, maybe it was an Anonymous that did not get approved.

Anyhow...

I have managed to locate someone through a friend of mine, who is a historian for the US Army at a rather prestigious place. I plan to copy the military-themed photos from the blog and email them to the gentleman this week.

Much as I tried to find the time, I have been too busy with family obligations to make the trip to the Indian Lake area this year. However I am in the process of planning all sorts of little fact-finding getaways in spring of 2009, and this is one of them.

Does anyone have any more info on this topic?

OK folks I have received a reply from the historian I showed the photos to.

I only sent him the photos that included military personnel, as well as the building and he steel box itself.

His conclusion: the uniforms all date from early WWII, and the photos were taken at Fort Sam Houston, Texas. The terrain and something about the way the building was set upon its foundation, or lack of (I forgot what he said), led him to believe it was Ft. Sam Houston. He said the building was the style built right before WWII, and typically demolished during early WWII to make way for the white two-story barracks that we all still see surviving on military bases today.

The main photo that I was interested in was the one with the two soldiers and the "Indian head" logo. He said that the white chevrons being worn by the man on the right are rayon and were only made and authorized for wear for a short time in early WWII. He was certain they were not post-WWII khaki chevrons. He said the "Indian head" logo was a morale logo from a unit in the 2d Infantry Division before the famous "star in shield" insignia was approved (and he proceeded to give me a 10-minute history lesson on he "star in shield" insignia). The letters below it should be AEF, for American Expeditionary Forces, and may be doctored to appear to say "ILP" in the photo. He said that while he had never seen that particular logo before, the "Indian head" and letters AEF were a popular combination seen on morale patches and logos made by small units in the 2d ID.

In addition, the Officers' dress uniform and tie style was used in early WWII.

That is all I can recall, I did take notes but he called when I was sleeping so my memory may not be the best; I will need to schedule another call with him soon.

So did anyone actually get to go and peek around Indian Lake?? I am just curious does anyone know how far Rochester is from Indian Lake?

Now, I have finally read the entire blog...

My verdict:

Great story! Very compelling and not far-fetched at all.
What speaks against this being a fraud is the time taken to write it. I find that more far-fetched than the idea of a "MK-Ultra" type camp near Indian Lake. Such camps did exist, that is a given fact.
If one would make such an elaborate hoax over this...seems like sort of an over kill.

Still;

Why did it end so abrubtly?
For you who would like to consider this a sign of the author being "taken care of": don't you think the first thing to do would be closing the blog?

And also; at some point in the early part of the blog, he mentions that he has separated from his wife and moved away to start a new life.
Later on, however, he says that he must give more time to his wife and family...

I might be wrong at this, and I am sorry for not posting a direct link to these quotes, but the blog is pretty massive and I just don't feel like doing the effort, sorry.
Yet, I clearly remember getting a bit surprised over these contradictions. I mean, this is a blog about ILP, but if he had been re-married, I guess it is more than natural to give it at least a few words...

So, frankly, I don't know what to make of it.
Neat read anyhow.

I just got of the phone with someone who spent summers at a relatives back in the 50's and early 60's. When I mentioned I found something online with pictures of kids and numbers she said ' you mean that indian whatever military program upstate, right? wasn't that near the canadian border? I know it was about 4 hours from the city when I would go each summer' Seems as though there was a military facility in that area back then, alot of kids were taken from catholic orphananges in NYC as well as upstate NY. This time period for some reason the orphananges were packed. The person I just spoke to is in her mid 60's herself and has nothing to hide but loves to talk. Anyway she said back then people knew the horrors that were going on at that location but things were different then, you minded your own business (especially since it involved the military). People just stayed away from there, anything discussed about the place was done in whispers with people concerned of their own childrens safety. No one publicly questioned much of anything back then from what she said. I don't know if she is off her rocker?? My question is how did she connect the pictures with the so called ILP if no one had ever seen the pictures until they were online? Once again we are talking about a woman in her mid 60's, she doesn't drive, no computer ( i have tried endlessly to show her how to read the paper online with my laptop when she babysits my daughter and she always ends up exing out the window..lol). I couldn't stay on the phone with her because my kid was screaming and I have to run out but I am definitely going to try and go to her house later and see what else she knows.

I was in that area a month ago today, actually, with the aforementioned historical expert. We were there for a different reason but nonetheless I was wondering if we might stumble upon something military-related. We saw nothing interesting.

The area is extremely remote, not well-populated, and not well-traveled. I saw one or two park rangers but no police and very few people.

We were on a road that was named (which, we thought, meant it would probably be quite passable) but was not much more than a logging road. We encountered a man who had been stuck in the mud for hours while trying to drive home from the lake after a day of fishing. No cell phone service out there, and few other people, but I was able to hit a 2m amateur radio repeater and call for assistance. So a word to the wise exploring that area-- be prepared for wilderness or automotive emergencies.

Just wondering, has anyone tried venturing near the area in the past few years since the last post on this thread? If so, please share your findings.

I've always believed the site to be some kind of elaborate hoax, but I've stumbled upon another forum recently where a few people were discussing how, at least, some of the info checks out.

reply to post by insightout


Nice to see this ol' thread stumble back to life!
Thought I'd never find it again (no thanks to the ATS search engine, wink wink, nudge nudge...)

I'll have to read the whole thing all over again before I can post anything with more substance however

reply to post by Raud


I agree, I'm going to have to go back and re-read everything from the very beginning. Another thing - even though I'm 99% sure it's a hoax -it's interesting to note that the charade has been going on for several years now. You'd think after a while the guy would get bored and just sack it. Actually, now that I think about it, maybe that's why it's been such a long time since he's last updated.

According to this site, most of the photos posted by "JohnS" came from stock photo vendors...

s3.zetaboards.com...

cool

People have been talking about this again. I never heard about until out for dinner the other night.a reply to: insightout

Do you remember the name of the road you were on?a reply to: therainmaker

originally posted by: snoopyuk
very interesting as the indians head logo seen in one of the photos, is also on camp hero ranch gates.

see the post on camp hero and the gatr.

snoopyuk

Hey Snoopy,
Recently, I've been doing alot of reading about the ILP mystery and am interested in your observation that the ILP Indian-head logo matches that found on the Camp Hero ranch gates. Are you sure about that? I tried to research the Camp Hero thread , but couldnt pull up the pics that I believe you're referring to. Do you have a pic for reference , perhaps?

Thanks so much,

Northcountryman