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Originally posted by dionysius9
How about.... the whole darn story is a crock?
It amazes me how people have questions and debates about the religion they believe in so fully, yet if you try to tell them that the universe is big enough to have other living things out there, you're considered a loon.
Just to state for the record, I do believe in god. But I think the bible was created as an act of politics.
Sorry, I mean no disrespect. As you can tell I'm in a bit of a mood. Don't take me too seriously.
[edit on 2-12-2007 by dionysius9]
Elias of great fame was from Thisbe or Thesbe, a town of Galaad (Gilead), beyond the Jordan.
He was of priestly lineage, a man of a solitary and ascetical character, clothed in a mantle of sheep skin, and girded about his loins with a leathern belt. His name is interpreted as "Yah is my God."
His zeal for the glory of God was compared to fire, and his speech for teaching and rebuke was likened unto a burning lamp.
Elias was suddenly snatched away by a fiery chariot in the year 895 B.C., and he ascended as though into heaven, whither God most certainly translated him alive, as He did Enoch (Gen. 5:24; IV Kings 2: 11).
They are still there until the appointed time. They have yet to die, but they will, and then they will be resurrected three days later.
Originally posted by BlackProjects
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"
II Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
Hebrews 11:5 adds: "By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, 'and was not found, because God had taken him'; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God."
Some believe Elijah and possibly Enoch are the "Two Witnesses" mentioned in Revelations Chapt 11. Both were taken by supernatural means and did not experience death. But you would think they must according to Hebrews 9:27. This leads to many questions ...here are a couple
1) They were taken as mortal men in physical body...thus born from Adam with sin. How could they be allowed into heaven? If that is the case Where are they today? If they are in heaven it obviously is a physical place right? Yet only Christ has been resurrected and has eternal body
You're seriously asking how this can be, when you're not asking how they could be taken up to heaven without dying in the first place? God is outside of time. The Resurrection of Christ is outside of time. It specifically says that Enoch will not see death as he pleased God- so he will likely not be one of the two witnesses- as the witnesses will die.
2) Thousands of years have passed.. if they are the witnesses then they are not aging or if they are they way older than Methusalah (age 969)
How can this be?
No. It just implies that there is no reincarnation into a different persona over and over again. Moses and Elijah are usually identified as the two witnesses as they were with Christ at his Transfiguration on Mt. Tabor.
3) If one of the two is not one of the two witnesses then doesn't it violate the Hebrews 9:27 verse?
Where are Elijah and Enoch today
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Sometimes to me it seems Heaven is related to sky/cosmic location inhabiting / intelligence / influences or just above EA*RTH.
He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, [color=gold] or where these 2 are from- when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them.
"Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, [color=gold]will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."
Originally posted by GeneralMishka
Originally posted by HiGilgamesh
reply to post by BlackProjects
Enoch is on earth atm
here are his teachings, read a few you will be hooked
Your 'enoch' accepts advertising from Psychics and Mediums