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Hell does not exist - like we hear it will be

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posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 02:45 AM
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Just a reminder that this is a discussion of others' beliefs of whether hell exists or not or what hell is to them. I am not trying to prove the existence or NON-existence of Hell.

This isn't a thread to bash anyone's beliefs but to discuss, in a civil manner, the differences and to find out why people believe the way they do. I have no problem people basing their beliefs on verses in the bible but because A bible says this and that does not mean someone else's beliefs are wrong or right.

I said in my OP:

...I would like to first get other's opinions and then we can discuss it like civilized people


I would like people to observe this request in good faith and allow others to voice what they believe and not try to convert anyone to their belief system!! IF someone changes their beliefs because of what another has posted here that is their prerogative. Please let's respect another's beliefs and LEARN about why they believe what they do and accept it as THEIR beliefs.




posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 03:01 AM
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Originally posted by never_tell
what is hell? its an architypal memory of the enslavement of man to work the underground mines and smelts of the Annunaki.

I am not sure if you are being serious or pulling our legs? Do you believe the Annunaki existed or exist?


...sent below the surface to work in the mines and smelt the precious metals... hense the fire and brimstone images and the prod of the pitch fork... afterall, who wants to work there! sounds like hell to me... mystery solved... next?

Why would anyone use a pitchfork in a smelter? So is this your belief of what Hell IS or WAS?



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 05:31 PM
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If hell exists like it is said to in the bible, then God is a huge sadist, and is not god but satan, looking at it logically. If he knows everything, he knows when he creates someone if they will go to hell or not. If they are going to go to hell, and suffer for eternity, that sounds rather sadistic to me. I also cannot personally think of anyone that deserves such a punishment either. In my opinion hell as in everlasting fire, putting people in rivers of lava etc, seems a bit harsh even for someone the likes of Hitler, Stalin or Mao. If you truly believe in such an idea of hell, think of what happens to you if you chose the wrong religion, but got the description of hell right.

Frankly I don't think hell is like that, it would be total isolation from anything, sort of like being in space with no air, no visible stars but you can't die, and just have an eternity of void. But if god is truly loving, he would eventually forgive everyone anyway, or he isn't loving.



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by shearder
 


i know it sounds "crazy", but yes, i do believe this to be true... did the annunaki exist? i believe, yes. I believe that earth was seeded and man was created to labour on behalf of "our creators"... and i don't mean in a biblical way... without laying it all out here, i tend to believe that ancient texts are not allegory, but in fact dipictions of historical fact *putting on my tinfoil hat*


"Why would anyone use a pitchfork in a smelter? So is this your belief of what Hell IS or WAS" was... as for the pitch fork, good way to prod humans to do things... much like a whip or a stick or a... we've used so many devices over the years... sigh

btw, i didn't come to this conclusion over night... i've been reading and researching for over 20 years... working on a book as we "speak"... it's a long story....



[edit on 16-11-2007 by never_tell]



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 08:25 PM
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my two cents on the topic of hell.
this has been touched on in earlier posts, but here goes anyway. i personally believe that after you die you go wherever you truly believe you will go. all options are open for whoever really believes they will go there. hell (in the stereotypical western sense) belongs to those who believe they have done terrible things in their life and feel they deserve to be punished for them. this is not to say that anyone who has done awful things will go there. hell is a manifestation of guilt and a need to be punished. im sure there are plenty of people who have done terrible things that they feel were perfectly right and justified (or theyre just plain sociopathic and dont feel any remorse) and will end up in whatever paradise they envision for themselves. just as im sure there are plenty of people who have led good lives but carry around a load of guilt for some little thing that will see them to hell so they can punish themselves for it.

that said, its probably not an insignificant point that im not christian at all. i do believe that god exists and that jesus existed and all, but in the same way that i (truly - not just as stories but as actual entities) believe that odin, zeus, ra, etc and so on, exist.

please note: i wont participate in any "im right and youre wrong" religion debates. im aware that my beliefs are not shared by the vast majority of people, and i just dont care. im merely stating my opinion on the matter. faith is one thing that, i think, you need justify to no one other than yourself. this disclaimer was probably totally unnecessary, ive just been involved in so many of these silly debates that i thought id make it clear.



posted on Nov, 18 2007 @ 01:52 AM
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Originally posted by never_tell
i know it sounds "crazy", but yes, i do believe this to be true... did the annunaki exist? i believe, yes. I believe that earth was seeded and man was created to labour on behalf of "our creators"

That is quite profound. I have heard of the Annunaki but then again i take that with a pinch of salt. I do not knock your belief or the possibility that they existed. However, i guess anything is a possibility and we actually know so little about the universe and i would venture as little about our own earth



..as for the pitch fork, good way to prod humans to do things... much like a whip or a stick or a... we've used so many devices over the years... sigh

Interesting theory and the pitch fork idea makes sense.


btw, i didn't come to this conclusion over night... working on a book as we "speak"... it's a long story....

Very interesting theory and ideas. However, again i do not make lite of what you are saying. As i mentioned before, i may be the one that is wronmg. I find others ideas and reasons very interesting and i am not going to sit here and say it is hogwash or this would be a wasted thread considering the purpose of it


Thanks again for your interesting post.



posted on Nov, 18 2007 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by shearder
 


i'm actually surprised my post didn't raise more eyebrows than it did...

"That is quite profound. I have heard of the Annunaki but then again i take that with a pinch of salt. "

i'd suggest the "annunaki" are just one depiction of the "first beings".. the creators that are described in countless "mythologies"... perhaps by the time the bible was written, it wasn't fashionable to tell the whole story.. afterall, who wants to tell people they are slaves of God, all the while trying to build a giant fan base!?

"Very interesting theory and ideas. However, again i do not make lite of what you are saying. "

if i can give you a clue as to the root of my epiphanies, it happened the moment i considered the idea that ancient/historical mythologies/legends were real historical documentation and archetypal memories.... and then I began reading everything i could get my hands on... from the Vox Popul to the Brothers Grimm... source documents (sadly translations) but... once I premised history on the notion of "godly intervention" that is that some great power is responsible for everything, all the world's mysteries seemed to fade away... and i'm not suggesting the "God" is an energy or Gaia, but an actual humanoid, followed and working with other humanoids, to, at first terraform the planet (creation), begin mining and living on it (the golden age when gods walked upon the planet), cloned themselves with chemical elements of the earth (iron/red earth) to create man, the lulu, the worker to labour in their place... taking this "metaphysical jump to the "left", everything started to make sense... and every mystery i was confronted with seemed to have a perfectly logical explaination based on what the ancients were saying... i think that's why it's ironic that ancient text often suggest their adherents read the works of their ancient scribes... what if Enoch was taken up by "god" and shown all things and then instructed to write them down only to pass them to his sons to live on and be rewritten over and over again... makes you wonder.. yes?

all in all, i'm always suprised at how people want to cling to the metephor and spiritual nature these questions pose, rather than imagine a world existing in the past with technologies still not rediscovered today... to me that sounds far more plausable, than poetry!



posted on Nov, 18 2007 @ 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by frumpwallow
this has been touched on in earlier posts, but here goes anyway. i personally believe that after you die you go wherever you truly believe you will go. all options are open for whoever really believes they will go there.

SO do you believe that hell is a personal thing and self created?


hell is a manifestation of guilt and a need to be punished.

That is an interesting theory, if i may call it that. Now i personally don't think i could ever feel the need to be punished hehehe... but hey, perhaps you have a point? Perhaps when we die we leave our worldy fears etc behind and feel we need to be punished for what we have done so we can move on. Interesting idea indeed.


...its probably not an insignificant point that im not christian at all. i do believe that god exists and that jesus existed and all, but in the same way that i (truly - not just as stories but as actual entities) believe that odin, zeus, ra, etc and so on, exist.

I havent looked into those entities exiting or having existed. Interesting thought though to say the least.


please note: i wont participate in any "im right and youre wrong" religion debates.

GREAT!! This is not what i want this thread to become. This is not the purpose of this thread at all. It is purely a place where one can discuss, openly, what they believe hell to be without having someone say they are wrong or right. Yes, we may question where the idea came from but i believe we need to leave it there. I have questioned someone here about it but based on their "pushing" and questioning someones beliefes to point of saying they are wrong.


im aware that my beliefs are not shared by the vast majority of people, and i just dont care. im merely stating my opinion on the matter. faith is one thing that, i think, you need justify to no one other than yourself. this disclaimer was probably totally unnecessary, ive just been involved in so many of these silly debates that i thought id make it clear.

Good for you! Honestly! I believe you are quite right in your statement. I don't believe this is the place to try and force people to believe in the way someone else does. It doesn't matter if your opinion is shared or not - it is yours and you have the right to one.

Thanks for your post.



posted on Nov, 18 2007 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by never_tell
I'm actually surprised my post didn't raise more eyebrows than it did...

Perhaps it did but no one responded?


i'd suggest the "annunaki" are just one depiction of the "first beings".. the creators that are described in countless "mythologies"....afterall, who wants to tell people they are slaves of God, all the while trying to build a giant fan base!?

Is there, any real proof that the annunaki existed other than in mythology? Now i am not asking to take this thread off track - but to try and make sense, for myself, of what you are saying so i can understand your point of view.

"Very interesting theory and ideas. However, again i do not make lite of what you are saying. "



all in all, i'm always suprised at how people want to cling to the metephor and spiritual nature these questions pose, rather than imagine a world existing in the past with technologies still not rediscovered today... to me that sounds far more plausable, than poetry!

it is a very profound idea that you are talking about here. I have never thought of people like the annunaki having existed. But again, the idea begs the question of "proof". I don't want to get into the annunaki in this thread but i am trying to understand your POV. Would there not be at least one small mention in some text to do with religion somewhere? Yes i know there is the idea in the bible that "gods" flew etc (keeping it very simple) - would that be connected to the annunaki?

Thanks again for your post.



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 12:24 AM
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All I can say is this:


LUKE 3:6 ALL flesh SHALL SEE the SALVATION of GOD.



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 12:24 AM
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reply to post by shearder
 


again, i'll suggest that "annunaki" is just a name... like .... Nephilim, is just a name... is there proof they existed? I suppose fundimentally it begs the question, 'How do you prove anything that's older than 100 years (given someone could still be alive as an eye witness)..." I mean, can we prove Templars existed? or King Henry or Louis? I think we'd all suggest "yes", from writings and "pictures" left behind. So with that in mind, why not believe ancient text and "pictures" to be "fact" as well? Maybe it's because we've been conditioned to believe that we're more sophisticated than we've ever been in history? I think any one who really thinks about it may have grounds to argue that. There's countless examples of technologies thousands of years old that we still have problems or even can't duplicate in today's world. the Basalt box in the great pyramid... today's best diamond drills would have a problem making it...

so, what's the proof they existed or that gods walked upon the earth? I'd suggest countless ancient scriptures, legends, myths from cultures all around the world seperated by vast oceans and language, who all tell basically the same stories.

The premise of my book is simply that if you accept this notion of Gods as humanoids (in our own likeness) and rethink the history of the earth and the hu-man, you'll find a somewhat different story unfolds. To tweak your interest perhaps even further, I'd ask you to consider the notion of humans communicating with the gods since the beginning... the passing of the Kings Lists or Consider for example, the family Levy.... image what's being passed around their family table...

more to come... have i got your interest?



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 12:44 AM
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I believe hell is getting married. Before marriage you were free to do what you please. If you want to go out with your buds " no problem " just name the place and time and I'll be there. You can buy all the toys you want without your spouse saying " honey can we afford that ". And when kids come into the picture, there goes all your toys. You are now buying toys for them. Those dreams of going on wild vacations and making out with beautiful women from foreign countries are replaced by sunglasses and trying not to make your neck creak when you're looking at them. You're paying bills that have nothing to do with you and sex is planned instead of just going for it in a creek or thunderstorm by an airport.

I have to say that hell is whatever you think it might be and if you choose to live in it then " what the hell are you complaining about ". Choose wisely and remember that you are in charge not your so called " better half ".



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
All I can say is this:


LUKE 3:6 ALL flesh SHALL SEE the SALVATION of GOD.


Hey SoT, can you elaborate? I agree that we will all see salvation unless we "die" and by that i mean we won't have eternal life and our souls will die. Now that's not to mean what you may believe is wrong.

Also, by your passage you presented it mentions all "flesh".



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 01:33 AM
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Originally posted by shearder
I need to start this thread because i can see another going WAYYYYYY off topic if the current post content is an indicator.

OK, to begin, let me say - I am a Catholic - whoaaaaaaa... K, got that out the way. So just because i am a Catholic doesn't mean I have to take the bible literally - and neither should anyone. There may be literal passages but much is simply a message being conveyed in ways that helped others, 2 thousand years ago+ (not minus) ie



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 02:06 AM
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reply to post by never_tell
 


Yes, you have my attention. You mention something passed around. Family Levy? hmmmm... i will look into that.



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 02:12 AM
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reply to post by Solarskye
 



Ok point taken. Not sure if it is at all what i was asking about but a point non the less.



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 02:33 AM
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Originally posted by tuesday
For one, it would've been so much easier to take you serious if you'd of used proper grammer, and capitalization.

Ok let me assist you since that is your forte:
The above should read:
For one, it would've been so much easier to take you serious(ly) if you'd (of) (The use of "of" is not correct. It has been used here to mean "have." The way you used "you'd" means "you had" which would have been, in your post, "you had have" which is also wrong.) used proper gramm(a)r (no comma should be used here), and capitalization.

Secondly, woahhhhhhhhhhhh, we do not care if you're a murderer, catholic, virgin, ect.

Should be ETC



Third, how do we know you actually are a catholic?
You don't. But if you had been on here (ATS) longer and got to know people you would know that I am from other threads.


Darling, please, please, please have something MORE to back you up then ("then" should be than - just bad English) the childish feel of your post.

What do I need to back up? Why should I back anything up in this thread? Childish? Cool - I am a child at heart. Glad that has come across. How does the "childish feel" of my post attempt to back up what I posted; considering you want more than the "childish feel" to do so?



I, myself, am not a catholic. I believe in hell, and I also have my faith in heaven; but I have my doubts in both for my own reasons.

You already mentioned that it was about you with I and added myself. OK I won't go into grammatical errors but would like to thank you for making at least one valid statement related to the thread topic.

So you believe in heaven and hell but you have your doubts. What doubts do you have about hell? What do you think hell is?

I will look to ensuring that my grammar is of a high enough standard to please you. Should I fail in this regard please feel free to highlight my failures in this regard in the future.

[edit on 19/11/2007 by shearder]



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 05:18 AM
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I don't believe that we (our soul) can die. I believe that we have always been and always will be. What is the purpose of this? I'm not sure but I think learning is at the heart of it. And not learning as in science etc, but learning to be a better person and growing as a soul (very simplified explanation). I don't believe that we are created merely to believe in and serve "our father".

So therefore I don't believe in a hell as such. It just doesn't ring true with what I believe. Once you are in eternal damnation there is no more learning to do....

I believe that hell (or what we can call hell if we want) is the "replaying" of all of your actions against/towards other people. Basically you feel your own despair/happiness at your own actions if that makes sense. E.G: If you lived your life in peace and helped when you could etc, then you will feel happy for your actions once you feel how they affected other people. And vice versa.

The amount of time you are in hell/heaven is dependent of how much pain or happiness you felt at your actions. That is dependent on the action itself.

So my version of hell is (once again) about learning. You learn how you affected other people and what they felt. Your punishment/reward is your own despair/praise at your own actions. You are your own judge in the afterlife.


And like other people I don't expect anyone to believe what I believe, but if someone can read it and take something out of it that rings true with them then that's great



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 05:48 AM
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Originally posted by GobbledokTChipeater
I don't believe that we (our soul) can die. I believe that we have always been and always will be. What is the purpose of this? I'm not sure but I think learning is at the heart of it. And not learning as in science etc, but learning to be a better person and growing as a soul (very simplified explanation). I don't believe that we are created merely to believe in and serve "our father".

I would put that in line with reincarnation to a point. I do, however, believe that our soul can die; this in line with what God has said that we will have eternal life and if we believe in him - those that do not believe will die - their soul will no longer exist. I do agree with you to a point



So therefore I don't believe in a hell as such. It just doesn't ring true with what I believe. Once you are in eternal damnation there is no more learning to do....

A valid point. But wouldn't eternal damnation be likened to being in "hell"? I would look at it being more like ones soul dying.



I believe that hell (or what we can call hell if we want) is the "replaying" of all of your actions against/towards other people.

Very interesting theory.


The amount of time you are in hell/heaven is dependent of how much pain or happiness you felt at your actions. That is dependent on the action itself.

Perhaps, and i know this thread is about "hell", when we are eventually "raised" into heaven we have learned the many lessons our souls need to continue without having to be reincarnated. Again, it begs the question - wouldn't we also need to learn bad things so we can learn? Like a child - plays with matches and gets burned and never plays with matches again?! Who knows.



So my version of hell is (once again) about learning. You learn how you affected other people and what they felt. Your punishment/reward is your own despair/praise at your own actions. You are your own judge in the afterlife.

Profound thought to say the least. "You are your own judge in the afterlife" - hmmmmm... interesting - i would have never thought about it that way. Is it possible? I guess anything is possible.


And like other people I don't expect anyone to believe what I believe, but if someone can read it and take something out of it that rings true with them then that's great

You are right - no one needs to believe what you believe. We all have our beliefs. I think it is prudent for others to just read what other people believe and understand to some degree what others are saying; not to believe the same, necessarily, but to understand how different people are. Who is right and who is wrong doesn't really matter here.

It is very interesting to see the differences and to share.



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 09:00 PM
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Originally posted by shearder
Just a reminder that this is a discussion of others' beliefs of whether hell exists or not or what hell is to them. I am not trying to prove the existence or NON-existence of Hell.

I agree. Yet if people want to bash each other's beliefs and waste time with antic distractions and angry rantings of what to believe and why- well I say let them.

In the meantime- I believe that hell is where a choice is made to reside. If one accepts this enslavement and simply tries to make the best of it- then it is likely that upon death a very similar existence will occur. Same fascist a$$wipes running the farm- doing experiments and all kinds of crap that will continue for all eternity only the Hillary Clinton's will just get uglier and uglier.

Resist this life and you get to move onto the next and it will be as if Hillary Clinton never existed because the lesson will be learned. Jail, prison, execution whatever the case may be- just be glad its almost over. Help as many people as you can without supporting the system.

Don't you think that John the Baptist was given a horrible nightmare so he could tell it and scare the living crap out of you for a reason. The entire vision was a hallucination inspired to terrorize anyone who would ask a question.

Don't believe for a second that you no longer have a choice because you do and so does everyone. That's the gift. Hell is for those who will not receive the gift of truth.

It is out there and it is not difficult to find it. After a while the lies just get so ridiculous- that its best not to pay any attention to them because they are designed to hide the truth- which is very clear when anyone decides to open their hearts, eyes and minds.

Its so simple its almost funny.

And remember, if you have to bash someone else's beliefs in order to make yours real- then you really don't believe in anything!

[edit on 19-11-2007 by dk3000]

[edit on 19-11-2007 by dk3000]



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