Breakthrough in primate cloning

What I would like to see if is a clone will behave like the original...for example, if you clone a gay, will the clone become gay as well?

Originally posted by Boondock78
i simply don't want to die...

Who does?

But, What if "souls" are real?

Maybe you want to live so long because you have no soul...no wait, that didn't come out right.

What I mean to say is; you stated you don't believe in the concept of having a soul, maybe that's why you find the thought of living way beyond a "normal" human lifespan so engaging.

Because you see death as The End.

So lets substitute the word "soul" with the word "consciousness."

It can be proven that, as humans, we have consciousness, we are aware of "being."

And it's also been theorized that we share a mass consciousness as well, as a species. (And, perhaps, more...)

A Global Consciousness, if you will.

Now what if this "self" consciousness, or consciousness in the singular form, was shared with all of your full body clones.

A global consciousness, on a local scale.

Like a computer network, where each singular unit is also a functioning part of a collective.

And with every new full body clone to reach awareness, "you" would expand to include that awareness.

All of your clones would be you, because you are all of your clones.

And as long as any one unit of you survived, you would never die.

So there would be no need to harvest the parts of one clone to save another, and no need to "download" your consciousness into a new body, because you'd already be there.

I find this scenario much more engaging than growing bodies to be harvested like spare parts factories.

reply to post by RedGolem


so once the cloning geniuses get thru making exact copies of plants animals and humans that are all identical and a disease comes along (which it always does)that takes out one variety but leaves other varieties alone-------what will the dead and the cloning geniuses have lelt to make copies of ? the dead making copies of the dead? many things such as this insanity should be left alone------- we are not smart enough yet to see far enough in advance all the possible repercussions of our "intelligent" designs wanna be like G-D ideas-----all we could make right now would be frankenstein monsters.

reply to post by goosdawg


the G-D of the bible that the churches that are not Theirs but profess to be G-Ds--------- try to convince us that we have a soul that can go either to heaven or hell when we die-------of course if you keep the doctrines of the church that teach you this-you get to go to heaven but if you dont keep their doctrines then you go to the other place.its a bunch of money making fear mongering.we were made for the purpose of being metamorphised into G-Ds family=being given life that never ends and with power to create life by ourselves-if we desire to.heaven is not the reward of the saved----but G-D will not take rebellious criminals into the family either if they would make everyone else in it miserable.

what about pets.....i love my dog.....when it's time for him to go, i would much rather clone him and raise him up as a pup than getting another pup..

know what i mean?

Originally posted by Boondock78
what about pets.....i love my dog.....when it's time for him to go, i would much rather clone him and raise him up as a pup than getting another pup..

know what i mean?

Make sure it cant reproduce then. So long as it cannot reproduce I don't see the problem in that.

The possible benefit of cloning to save endangered species such as pandas, which I would really would hate to think of losing these and other beautiful creatures. But...

Due to man's inherit nature towards greed and power, cloning in general I believe has disaster written all over it!! It is unfortunate but a factual reality nonetheless.

reply to post by yahn goodey


I think my definition of...um...god, and your definition would differ so greatly we would probably never see eye to eye on that subject.

But I'm trying to see what that has to do with the subject of human/primate cloning...

...perhaps you mean to imply that by even attempting to clone humans, the scientists and doctors involved would be playing god, no?

Meh, wouldn't be the first time, eh?



Question: Do you think full body human clones would have souls?

If the concept of "soul" is to be defined as a self aware, unique "consciousness," then, oh yea, definitely.

That's why I would take issue with boondock's view of full body clones to be owned and used as spare parts factories, or spare bodies.



Here's another question for you:

Do you think once a full body clone was made aware of their origins, they would believe in god?




reply to post by Boondock78


Each and every one of my dogs and critters have been a unique and precious addition to my time here on our blue marble.

Each one has been perfect in their own little way, and I miss terribly the ones that have passed on.

Personally, I cherish the experience of discovering the personality and quirks of each new addition to my life, and to somehow "repeat" that experience with the clone of a pet would, in my mind, cheapen the unique lifetime of the original.

Which is not to say I wouldn't support the right of someone else to have a clone, (or two or three) of a beloved pet.

Heck, it might even be cool to have a set of clones from a individual critter new to me, but I probably wouldn't want to repeat the experience with the same source critter, due to the reasons I stated above.

But, yea, what grimreaper797 said would be valid, to a point.

I could support highly selective breeding of clones, on a very limited and controlled basis, but what's the point?

Aren't dog shows and breeding all about the best in show?

How can there be a competition if all the competitors are exactly the same?




[edit on 16-11-2007 by goosdawg]

Originally posted by Boondock78



i understand just fine..i am talking about what if's and such...i know you can't download memories....in 50 years though, when i am about 80, how do you know that we won't be able to transfer data from brain to brain or even do a brain transplant?

you don't know that. i don't know that...

can you understand where i am coming from now?

there was a time where we coud not transplant organs.....thought it could not be done...well, it gets done every day now

Your right I dont know that, I agree.

But it is a strong "opinion" of mine that it isn't possible.

Heres an example, Somebody clones you, now there is another person there standing next to you, he seems just like you, but wait a minute its not you now is it? Because you are you, your not looking through his eyes.

Therefore you are A and he is B, its illogical for you to be able to actually be both people, because your consciousness is behind A. If you were to die, B would still live on as B, A would have nothing to do with him, you wouldn't be there because you are not B.

Now when we talk about, cloning organs, hair, blood, and copying data on a computer, they are all similar, but with consciousness, its totally different, because there can only be one.

reply to post by RedGolem


Clone Wars: coming soon to a reality near you.

I don't see it as anything much. How cares about human cloning? Can't God just stuff a spare soul in or something? If not, then screw it, why does it progress anything? What really is the difference between cloning humans to just organs? Does the Organ have a soul?

Those who want to live forever should just die and become reincarnated. What's so hard about that? Maybe the thing is that you have to believe in it? If you believe in Heaven and Hell, then some person on the outskirts will meet you after you die, ask you some questions, make a decision and give you the keys to the Kingdom or cast you into Hell. If you believe in nothing then you are vanquished into oblivion promptly upon death. If you believe an rising to a higher consciousness after death, and that you will rise to a higher dimension, then that happens. When it comes to death you can't do anything but hold a belief, anyway. Might as well choose one and get to living this life in full. When the time comes, allow your clone to get his or her own damn experiences without you having to download the contents of your brain into theirs. What do you get out of it? You can't take anything material with you when you die. So, yeah, just get to living now!

[edit on 16-11-2007 by Areal51]

reply to post by _Phoenix_


you must not have read all my posts...i said i would clone myself and have one be operational at a time...i talked of raising a clone but i don't know...

if the clone is no aware till the download, whats the problem?



area51, about reincarnation..

maybe this is reincarnation

Hmmm, someone is currently selling Shakira's hair on ebay. The ebay item is pretty shocking. "Shakira DNA" is said about a million times in the item description. If someone had Shakira's hair and they made a clone from it... who owns the clone? The clone could earn lots of money in Vegas. But, would the real Shakira demand a percentage of the profits?

Or, Shakira could clone herself. While on tour she can send out a clone to perform for her when she's sick.

Shakira then said then I'll give you some of my hair, she took out a pair of small nail scissors from a velvet black cosmetic bag and snipped off 70 or so strands in a lock of her hair and gave them to my daughter.

[edit on 16-11-2007 by OralFixation]

Originally posted by runetang
reply to post by Boondock78

 

okay lets replace the word soul with consciousness.

not even close, these words are not interchangeable

no one would recognise their own soul, it does not have your personality (which is a byproduct of human 'consciousness' and memory among other things)

your soul will exist after your dead. but it wont be you. not who you think you are. what makes up your personality is physical. all of it. that dies.

your soul will not have your favorite tv shows, food, color, time of year, or any of that. thats you. thats all molecular chains of protein sequences in your brain formed over time via response to external stimuli.

and for the record, humans are, by necessity, barely conscious... they function in a sort of twilight sleep for the most part with brief intervals of slightly elevated concentration.

human clones do exist naturally. clones are not an abomination, they are not property, but cloned body parts are.

if its sentient, its a person. a cloned kidney is a miracle of human knowledge and should be welcomed without question.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by RedGolem

 

Clone Wars: coming soon to a reality near you.

I don't see it as anything much. How cares about human cloning? Can't God just stuff a spare soul in or something? If not, then screw it, why does it progress anything? What really is the difference between cloning humans to just organs? Does the Organ have a soul?

an organ cant support a soul, obviously, and there are plenty of what we refer to as 'souls' to go around. it may turn out to be a single thing.

clone wars? not likely. a clone is just a human and is entitled to all the rights we try to uphold for ourselves and others. clones have always existed anyway.

there is a difference between a new arm and a whole person, i feel embarrassed to have to point out

Originally posted by goosdawg
reply to post by yahn goodey

 

Do you think once a full body clone was made aware of their origins, they would believe in god?

why would a human, regardless of how it was brought into being (natural, surrogate, petri dish or cloned) be any different than any other human?

some people are mistaking a cloned human for an alien; fictional character; android or some other fairy tale device.

its a person, whats so hard to grasp?

however, a cloned heart is not a person, any more than your lost baby teeth are.

who could possibly be unclear about this?

Originally posted by grimreaper797
Our entire race has had to deal with mortality boondock, you think that none of them lived a forefilling life? I don't believe so. If in 80 years I haven't figured it out, and haven't learned how to live a life worth living, then I messed it up pretty bad. Why worry about how much time you will have to live in the future and start living now?

you could have said the same thing 1000 years ago, when the human life span was routinely about 30 years old

why extend the h.l.s. to 80?

if you havent figured out how to have a life worth living by the time you're 30, then thats your problem?

agree with that, do you?

heaven can wait, is an expression you might have missed in your short time here. its not just a funny thing to say. its a human endeavour.

you dont have to come along with the rest of us, but dont use your fear to hold us all back, mmmkay?

1. Im not holding anyone back. If you want to make the mistake, fine. Human beings will be responsible for their actions. One way or another.

2. even though the extention to 80 years of average life will have an effect on our planet, it will not be as severe as 300+ would be. When our bodies are starting to naturally wear out, thats when its time to go. The lifespan of 30 years was most likely a result of disease, war, etc. But when you die simply because your body can't last any longer, you have obviously hit the limit.

If some one lives naturally to be 100, hey kudos to them. If some one naturally dies at 38, well thats life. I had an great great aunt who made it to 101. It wasn't because of medicine or things like that. She just got lucky, made the best run she could, and her body eventually gave up. She didn't waste her time with what she could do, or what she would do if she had more time, she just went out and did it. How many of us can say the same? We all have dreams and things we like to do, but how many of us do it? Thats something she taught me recently from the grave (she passed this year).

reply to post by goosdawg


humans are souls-----scripture says we are given a spirit to be able to think like G-D and record our lives/memories(us) of who we are to be preserved for the resurrection when G-D brings us back again from death.would you want to be a clone or would you want your children to be clones?do you know of anything humans have touched/made that turned out perfect?G-D says cursed is the man that trusts a man-----dont believe that?---------check see how politicians turn out that some vote for or what some "priests" do to children or how some doctors needles give the disease that they were supposed to prevent-----------i wouldnt trust another man as far as i could throw one.

From what I have been reading here it sounds like some people just don't want to die. Fair nuff as I am sure few people really do, and cloning is seen as a way to cheat death. However I thought I would post a few things that some other people have said about death and the such.

A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic.
Joseph Stalin (1879 - 1953)
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire (1694 - 1778),
There are worse things in life than death. Have you ever spent an evening with an insurance salesman?
Woody Allen (1935 - )
There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana (1863 - 1952),
Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)
Too many people are thinking of security instead of opportunity. They seem more afraid of life than death.
James F. Byrnes (1879 - 1972)
When I came back to Dublin I was courtmartialed in my absence and sentenced to death in my absence, so I said they could shoot me in my absence.
Brendan Behan (1923 - 1964)

I also remember something Friday said in Robinson Caruso.
"Dieing is not important, as all men die. What is important is how you die."
To that I think you could add it is also important how you live.