Past Civilisations - Convince me WHY they didn't exist

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posted on Nov, 14 2007 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by jakyll
Can you explain your evidence for this?

I posted a link and an extract from a different discussion that points out that the tibetan lost civilisation was never lost and is well documented
did you read it ?

Originally posted by jakyll
Too many academics say such things and use no evidence to back up their arguments.Either that,or;its a fake,its a hoax,its a coincidence blah blah blah.Funny how they say such things when its something that doesn't fit into their idea of history aint it.
Catal Huyuk once was seen as a self contained civilization/society just as some other city states were.

Catal Hoyuk was never seen as a self contained civilisation of any kind
please link to a source that claims this. You are guilty of what you just accused academics of.
en.wikipedia.org...

The complex settlement was described by Mellaart as the earliest city in the world. However, it is more properly described as a large village rather than a true town, city or civilization. The community seems to have consisted entirely of domestic housing with open areas for dumping rubbish.


Originally posted by jakyll
Sitchin and von Daniken lean more towards the theory of aliens,i don't.As i said earlier,i don't believe we needed outside influence to progress.
M.Blavatsky theories are on religion and Christian fundamentalists don't want you to think about life before the Bible so i don't know why there on your list.

they are on the list because you posted information from that source as I already explained. Go back and read my earlier post its very clear why i mentioned them


Originally posted by jakyll
Proper research means,to me,reading everything on a subject from all points of views,not just those you agree with!
People like Graham Hancock make you look beyond the accepted 'facts' but that doesn't mean everything he writes is true.In his book Underworlds,its quite obvious that the pictures within are of man made structures,but i don't think his theory behind who made them is true.
If you ignore those who dare to go against the norm then you are conforming to the academics who can't see beyond their own reputations!!

well I don't believe you sorry. You linked to world mysteries on this post and punlished an extract. that is not proper research.


Originally posted by jakyll

The Piri Reis map shows the western coast of Africa, the eastern coast of South America, and the northern coast of Antarctica. The northern coastline of Antarctica is perfectly detailed. The most puzzling however is not so much how Piri Reis managed to draw such an accurate map of the Antarctic region 300 years before it was discovered, but that the map shows the coastline under the ice. Geological evidence confirms that the latest date Queen Maud Land could have been charted in an ice-free state is 4000 BC.


the Piri reis map has been debunked more times than Sitchin


Originally posted by jakyll
And,although not from 'pre-history' the Vaimanika Sastra text is full of wonders.


In 1875, the Vaimanika Sastra, a fourth century B.C. text written by Bharadvajy the Wise,using even older texts as his source, was rediscovered in a temple in India. It dealt with the operation of Vimanas and included information on the steering, precautions for long flights, protection of the airships from storms and lightening and how to switch the drive to "solar energy" from a free energy source which sounds like "anti-gravity."
It has eight chapters with diagrams, describing three types of aircraft, including apparatuses that could neither catch on fire nor break. It also mentions 31 essential parts of these vehicles and 16 materials from which they are constructed, which absorb light and heat; for which reason they were considered suitable for the construction of Vimanas.



thus says David Hatcher Childress. the fact is that the indian vimana text you are talking about was not an ancient one it was channeled
www.sacred-texts.com...


The story of this book is as follows: sometime in the period just before World War I, a Brahman named Pandit Subbaraya Sastry began to dictate previously unknown texts in Sanskrit which purported to contain ancient Indian technological knowledge. He in turn, credited a Vedic sage named Maharshi Bharadwaja, as well as other Rishis who appear in legitimate Hindu texts.

One of these 'channeled' texts was, on its face, a technical manual for the construction and use of 'vimanas,' the flying machines of the Vedic sagas. It is unclear as to whether any part of the present work was actually published in print at that time, even though it is implied in the introduction, so it is unclear whether it was published (in the legal sense) prior to 1923. The Sanskrit manuscript of the VS lay unpublished for over fifty years. In 1973, this text was published in a very limited edition by G.R. Josyer, along with a translation which he had produced over a twenty year period. In 1991, the English portion and the illustrations from the Josyer book were reprinted in the above-mentioned Vimana Aircraft of Ancient India & Atlantis.

It as if someone in the early 20th century wrote a 100 page book on ancient aircraft in Biblical Hebrew and attributed it to Moses and other prophets. However, the fact that the book was originally written in Sanskrit, while very impressive, isn't any indication of authenticity. Sanskrit is to some extent still a living language, used everyday in Hindu ritual. It is plausible that a well-educated high-caste Hindu from that period would be able to compose a Sanskrit text of this length given enough time.

If you are looking for an ancient manuscript on this fascinating topic, you'll need to keep on looking. The Vymanika Shastra was first committed to writing between 1918 and 1923, and nobody is claiming that it came from some mysterious antique manuscript. The fact is, there are no manuscripts of this text prior to 1918, and nobody is claiming that there are. So on one level, this is not a hoax. You just have to buy into the assumption that 'channeling' works.

.


so so far you've posted evidence from
a dodgy website (world mysteries)
Hancock and Daniken and Blavatsky
channeled information which isn't even accurate


and you're asking why people don't believe this stuff

quite clear why if you ask me




posted on Nov, 14 2007 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by kerkinana walsky
 


This would be about the 50th post Ive read by you that begs the question: Why does she post at a Forum on alternative theories rather than on Forums suiting her line of exploration?



posted on Nov, 14 2007 @ 12:18 PM
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Piri Reis map

Is a Turkish map using the latest information (for the time it was made) to including some that was previously lost.

It doesn't show Antarctic - the map itself explains who made it and from what sources. Fringe authors have deliberately misrepresented and lied about was it says and shows.

1. Take a look at the carribean
2. Take a look at any map that shows the ocean bottom in the area of the antarctica and SA - it has no relation with Piri Reis map

I recommend you read The book by Gregory C. McIntosh, The Piri Peis Map of 1513 - it gives an exhaustive study and look at all aspects of the map.



posted on Nov, 14 2007 @ 12:21 PM
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Howdy Skyfloating

Because so many fringe sites are full of completely contradictary nonsense - yes SF there is nonsense in the world.

You can see a bit above about the Piri Reis map.

One could ask, why do you reject scientific sites but believe fringe sites?



posted on Nov, 14 2007 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


I've seen that map, I think it's in one of David Icke's books. Very cool, very mind expanding, ha ha...



posted on Nov, 14 2007 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


Science is like a cult or religion in many ways. It discounts a lot of things that don't fall into the paradigms it creates. What are we to do about the things that science can't or won't explain? That's what we're talking about here.



posted on Nov, 14 2007 @ 12:26 PM
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Science is like a cult or religion in many ways.


It's actually a methodology. Science is our second attempt to explain the world around us, the first attempt was by our creating religions...that didn't work to well.



posted on Nov, 14 2007 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by Hanslune
One could ask, why do you reject scientific sites but believe fringe sites?


I dont reject them. When I wanna discuss sense I go there. When I wanna discuss speculation, I come here. No need to come here to supress speculation.



posted on Nov, 14 2007 @ 12:35 PM
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Suppress?

Are you being suppress Skyfloating?

Perhaps we should have an hours long speculation on aliens making the Piri Reis map? Oh wait we know it was made by a Turkish guy using maps from a number of sources ...is pointing out reality suppression Skyfloating?



posted on Nov, 14 2007 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


Maybe in the purest sense, but IMO the scientific community is not following through on what the principles of science propose that it do. By ignoring the paranormal and other Earth mysteries, science is forcing a lot of people to be heavily critical of it.

That's why I say it's a cult, the cult leaders say UFO's are bolt lighting, swamp gas or some such; and nothing to be concerned about. This claim is totally unscientific, and shouldn't be uttered by anyone claiming to call his or herself a scientist.



posted on Nov, 14 2007 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by jakyll
In Critias he talks of the Athenians going to war with the Atlanteans,its not a discussion on a perfect society.


Wow. I guess you didn't study Plato in school. In the two dialogues where Atlantis is discussed, it's to expand on his ideas as presented in The Republic...



posted on Nov, 14 2007 @ 12:45 PM
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Howdy Raoul Duke

A cult? Okay so who are leaders of the cult and which god is worshipped?

UFOs are a bit off topic for thread. However, belief in non physical things are difficult to study, some things cannot be measured by science. Or when they can be studied the answer is not what the believers want to hear.

But let us return to pyramids and unfound civilizations



posted on Nov, 14 2007 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by Hanslune
Howdy Raoul Duke


Hey Ya! Hans,


A cult? Okay so who are leaders of the cult and which god is worshipped?


The gatekeepers, anyone who's is against serious research into the paranormal, or Earth mysteries/anomalies... Michael Schermer is one...


UFOs are a bit off topic for thread. However, belief in non physical things are difficult to study, some things cannot be measured by science. Or when they can be studied the answer is not what the believers want to hear.


Well I lump all this stuff together UFO's, Ancient Civiliations, Psychic Powers, Metaphysics, etc...

My point exactly about science as a cult, sometimes they don't accept evidence and keep a paradigm in place. This strikes me as cult-like behavior.



posted on Nov, 14 2007 @ 12:53 PM
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Howdy RD

If you have some evidence of lost civilizations please share.!
Michael S, an interesting guy, met him once years ago, when one of his books came out. I'd say he no fan of the paranormal but I don't think he's against research in the area - anyone, amateurs included can do research in that area.



posted on Nov, 14 2007 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


Well, first you need to go back and read the thread, there's been evidence of it on this thread! Did you read the article about the ruins in Oklahoma?

I think some one posted an article on a homo sapien skull found to be 150,000 years old. I believe that it long before official science suggests homo sapiens emerged.



posted on Nov, 14 2007 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


In every subject of knowledge you will find the conservative basis and the fringe.


I see a few posters at ATS who who´s sole purpose it is to debunk the fringe and speculation. This wouldnt be too bad if it wasnt their sole activity. No posts on other threads, no participation in speculation, no "being open for alternative explanations", nothing.

Now its fine if you dont think I can channel accurate information on Atlantis, Egypt and Mars and if you think those who claim they can are nuts. But why go to a Forum full of nuts? I am only curious as to the motivation.



posted on Nov, 14 2007 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke
Well, first you need to go back and read the thread, there's been evidence of it on this thread! Did you read the article about the ruins in Oklahoma?


I investigated that a couple of years ago:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Turned out to be a natural limestone formation.



posted on Nov, 14 2007 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by kerkinana walsky
 


This would be about the 50th post Ive read by you that begs the question: Why does she post at a Forum on alternative theories rather than on Forums suiting her line of exploration?


I thought I was posting at a forum which has the Motto "deny ignorance"
Suggest you go and ask the owner why he has started a forum where the evidence can be weighed pro and con and see what he says about the fact that pseudo history doesn't have any

its called pseudo history for a reason.



posted on Nov, 14 2007 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by JustMe74

I investigated that a couple of years ago:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Turned out to be a natural limestone formation.


What about the the skull? Do you know Caucasian bodies have been found in Asia long before they were supposed to have been there? Do you know many think the great pyramid was lit by electricity? Are you familar with the Baghdad battery? This isn't my area of expertise, I didn't start this thread, but these things to me, should be a high priority for scientists to look into to; but instead we hear nothing from our great religion science.

Michael Cremo is one of the top experts on this stuff.



posted on Nov, 14 2007 @ 03:07 PM
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Hi RD,

It is my understanding that many of the crystal skulls have been debunked as 19th century forgeries as evidence of a jewelers drilling eguipment had been found on them. The discovery of the main one, sometimes called the Skull of Doom, is undocumented by its alleged founder and is of Brazilian Quartz, not found in Mayan areas.

The caucasian remains found in China really shouldn't have been a shock to anyone as there were no real borders that far back. Many peoples followed wherever their food sources, if animal, led them.

The Baghdad battery or items like it are believed to have been used for electoplating.

If the pyramids were built as is believed by science, then it is possible that electricity played a part. However, if the pyramids were created level by level using a ramp then the insides would have been opened to the outside until the last courses of the top were added. Lighting from the inside would have been unnecessary.





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