Are the Masons Evil?

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
Nobody on this board can deny what that wonderful Senator just said. Im just glad hes in a higher position than all the other "Masons" here on this board.

Hmm.

Well...

Actually, I can. Here ya go:

I hereby and hereon deny that the senator said anything.

Here's the thing: There's no senator in any of your posts. I know, I know, it's a technicality. But, it also wasn't "just said" either. That video is two years old.

If you're talking about Blue Man Group wannabe Stan Jones, then you're mistaken. Stan Jones unsuccessfully ran for senator twice. He also ran for governor twice - also unsuccessfully.

He, apparently, also has blue skin.

I'm not sure how not winning four elections puts him in a 'higher position than all the other "Masons" here on this board.'

I appreciate everything he said, and I appreciate the great courage he summed up to say what he said. Is there anyway to mute certain members posts on the board?

I'm sure you do appreciate everything he said. I honestly wish, however, you'd do a bit of research before you make such unusual statements though. You can take that any way you want it.

If you wish to 'mute' other members posts, you can put them on ignore.

And, again, I'll point out that you have yet to state why you believe that Masons are evil. Could you please do that? I'm sure you're a nice enough kid, but the odd posts and misquoted rhetoric are becoming tiresome. Some people actually do come here for discussion, rather than just trying to stir the pot.

Your pal,
Meat.

[edit on 4-2-2008 by mmmeat]

reply to post by topsecretombomb


Actually there is a method to ignore members on the board. Under their name to the left in the profile is a red Ignore button. Push it and add the user to the ignore list and all posts are then filtered from all threads - you never see them again.

I believe there is a limit to how many people can be put on it though.

Just a little help from your friendly local Mason.

[edit on 2/4/2008 by Rockpuck]

Ahem

Just a friendly reminder to all in the thread. Please stay on topic and avoid personal attacks and the like. Nobody has crossed that line yet so lets keep it that way

Cheers
Fred

[edit on 2/4/08 by FredT]

WOW and again WOW.

I have never ever seen a star of david in a lodge ever.

In my juridiction a person who was later found to profess the Wiccan faith
was asked to dimit or be expelled. Told to me directly from someone I know who is an officer in my Grand Lodge. There was a huge hubub about it in our jurisdiction.

There is nothing secret about masonry. NOTHING! All the 'so called' books can be purchased online.

I quite enjoy the books and fellowship. The politics and what I believe to be anti-universality that I have ran into I could do without.

32 degree is handed to any master mason with 150 dollars and a day to spare.

I have yet to see a lodge in my jurisdiction in which the brothers were not of an abrahamic faith.

The Rosicrucian order for Masonry does say on their website that caballah is studied, yet after speaking with someone who is in this order, he says he barely reads any masonic books or caballah and a lot of the stuff i mentioned to him was news to him. He also happens to be an officer in our Grand lodge.

You cannot be a member of AMORC or Clymer's version of the Roscirucian order to get into the Masonic Rosicrucian order or any othe Rosicrucian order for that matter. You MUST believe in the Trilateral Unity of the GOD, Jesus, and the holy ghost to be a member of this order.

You MUST be a Christian to be in the Knights Templar order of the York Rite of Masonry, which is the highest york rite degree.

Ask most mason's including Grand Lodge members anything about Esoteric Masonry and they claim no knowlege of such and as I stated expelled a wiccan.

What I have learned in Masonry is morality and philosophical lessons through ritual or if the word ritual scares people, staged plays and masonic myth and legend. I have learned to strive to be a better man, although I did anyway, it is more cemented through masonry for me at least. The fellowship and aknowlegement when in and outside the lodge and jurisdiction is great as well. Although our lodge needs to get off its duff, the charity aspect is another great part of masonry.

Sitting in an inactive lodge, although the fellowship is great, the meetings are more boring than the local news from an empty cow pasture. Conspriracy? LOL

Also to the claims masons help masons. What is the big deal about it?

It is no different for a mason to help a mason with employment anymore than it is for someone's buddy to help them get on at a local job who aren't masons.

I was offered a job by a mason in my lodge sure. Did i take it, sure temporarily until i could get back in college. Why was i offered the job? He was in business for himself, needed help and I was available and needed work. We knew each other. He knew what he was getting and so did i vs running an add in the paper and not knowing if those who applied would even show up for work or how long it would take anyone to respond to the add even. he had production he needed to get out, i was available.

That is no different that someone ya know asking ya to work for them.

33 degree masons holding some secret knowlege? that is amusing to me as well. We have a 33 degree in our lodge. He runs a local barber shop. We are in a town of less then 6000 people. He isn't wealthy, isn't in government politics, and just does his job, goes to church on sunday, and is active in the lodge with donating to charities, and helping out at larger scottish rite meetings. His 33 degree was given him for his time and what he has done in masonry just like a person who is given a plaque for 20 years of service at their job and doing a good job.

As for the new world order? it isn't secretive either. It is globalization.

Not merely of trade but of government.

I am not against global interaction. But as a 32 degree mason, I am voting for Ron Paul today. Some cospirator idealist would say that goes against what Masonry's "supposed" agenda is.

If i was being taught this "supposed" agenda why would I vote for Ron?

Why wouldn't I vote for all the others on the CFR. Why wouldn't I vote in support of the NAFTA super highway, amnesty, more Patriot Acts?

Why do people belive that because masons don't televise each and every meeting they have, that they are evil? Whatever happened to judging folks individually based on character instead of clumping everyone into one.

Are all christian organizations the same? Do they all follow the same beliefs?
Are all closed meetings evil?

I read all these conspriracy theories. They are entertaining. I enjoy them. There are conspriarcies as well but not everything in life is a conspriracy.

Not every priest molest children but some do. Is every priest evil? ,Not every satanist is evil and is intent on doing bad things to people, not every christian is intent on doing good things for people, not every mason is good, not every mason is bad.

Every mason interprets masonry in their own way just like most intrepret the bible or anything else their own way.

I attend a christian college. Take classes in bible history, ethics, and interpretation. Yet I am not going to college to become a minister. I am going to college for genetics. Although I attend and read the bible and study it, I also am not Jewish, am not Islamic, and am not a Christian by most Christian's concepts anyway. I believe in a creator and am hopeful of the immortality of the soul (and who knows...maybe through genetics..immortality of the body ). That is all that was required of me to become a mason.

There is a reason religion isn't supposed to be discussed in the lodge. It can cause confict and grumblings. I made the mistake of telling some masonic brothers part of how I believe outside of the lodge. Most all mason I know are christians. My beliefs didn't set well in their perceptions of what christianity is. I feel alienated to a degree in my own lodge because of it. But that may be just my poor perception. I have been passed over to learn degree work and feel this to be the reason.

I turned in all my proficiecies with a months time and only that long because the lodge members were busy with other things. So it isn't my capacity to learn them that is in question.

So, if there is evil in masonry....it is on and individual level....not something propounded by the fraternity itself.

reply to post by sentientsojourner


I'm curious, Brother: under what pretext did the Grand Master expel a Wiccan? I find this very troubling because you insinuated that the brother was expelled due to his religious beliefs.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
I'm curious, Brother: under what pretext did the Grand Master expel a Wiccan? I find this very troubling because you insinuated that the brother was expelled due to his religious beliefs.

That caught my attention, too.

Is there such a thing as a single wiccan God? If there isn't then I would imagine that it would be difficult to take an obligation or be bound by it.

Your pal,
Meat.

He was expelled or asked to leave due to his beliefs. I am not making this up. It was a big hubub in our jursidiciton. Other brothers got mad that he was initiatied in the first place. The Grand Lodge officer's paraphrased words to me were...I know they accept them in some grand lodge jurisdiction but we just don't want that in ours. He also said if the investigation committee had been doing there job correctly he wouldn't have made to initiation to begin with.

I don't like it. To me this goes against masonry. As long as the guy professed a belief in a god....then it shouldn't matter if that god is YHVH, Baal, Molech, Venus, Hathor, Ishtar, Gia, Loki, or Satan himself. But that is my opinion. Everyone interprets masonry the way they wish i suppose.

Most the masons I know haven't even read Morals and Dogma the Bridge to Light much less any other text concerning masonry. If I remember correctly the guy who is a 33 in our town hasn't read morals and dogma either.

Folks should study comparative religions before making assumptions based on hearsay and a few websites and opinions of friends and contacts.

Study it for oneself and don't depend on others to give one a correct answer completely.

Wiccans are like any other belief system. Ask one wiccan who their god is and another who theirs is and yet another. You might get an answer from one as we believe in mother earth and the creative force of the universe. You might get an actual single god from the Celtic system from the other and another that says we believe in a pantheon of gods and goddesses. It is individual choice and belief.

The bible says "Test all things and hold fast to that which is good" 1 Thessalonians 5:21

THis would include ones own belief system in my opinion.

Personally I believe hell to be unethical and unjust punishment even for the likes of Adolph Hitler and Jeffery Dohmer. If the definition of hell is being defined as a place of burning and torture for eternity for a very short finite time period on this earth. I could go on and on about my beliefs that I think may have causes some weird reactions toward me in my home lodge but it is getting off the subject.

I don't buy that masonry is evil. Individuals do bad things for sure but the fraternity doesn't propound bad things to any initiate that I have ever known.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
reply to post by sentientsojourner

 

I'm curious, Brother: under what pretext did the Grand Master expel a Wiccan? I find this very troubling because you insinuated that the brother was expelled due to his religious beliefs.

It can be backwards in some places. I doubt a Wiccan would be accepted into a lodge in my area either. I don't agree with it, and would have no problem signing a petition for someone, but.... that's the South for you.


[edit on 2/5/2008 by JustMe74]

Originally posted by sentientsojourner
Most the masons I know haven't even read Morals and Dogma the Bridge to Light much less any other text concerning masonry.

To be fair, though, Morals & Dogma and Bridge to Light are Scottish Rite-centered books; a regular Blue Lodger, York Rite, Shriner or any other appendant or concordant body really doesn't need to read M&D.

Personally I believe hell to be unethical and unjust punishment even for the likes of Adolph Hitler and Jeffery Dohmer. If the definition of hell is being defined as a place of burning and torture for eternity for a very short finite time period on this earth.

Unless, of course, you believe - as a great many people do - that Hell isn't a burning place, it's simply the absolute absence of God and His voice forever. I tend to think that's what Hell actually is.

Your pal,
Meat.

Originally posted by sentientsojourner
He was expelled or asked to leave due to his beliefs. I am not making this up. It was a big hubub in our jursidiciton. Other brothers got mad that he was initiatied in the first place.

I can kind of understand this, in that there is an obligation, a belief in a higher power, and a sacred text or book involved with becoming a Mason. I believe that it has to be a sacred text that's accepted by the Grand Lodge.

Your pal,
Meat.

Originally posted by JustMe74


It can be backwards in some places. I doubt a Wiccan would be accepted into a lodge in my area either. I don't agree with it, and would have no problem signing a petition for someone, but.... that's the South for you.

I'm also in the South, but have never heard of this before.

Did the Lodge ask the candidate what his religion was? The brother said that a Grand Lodge officer stated that if the committee had done their job, the brother would not have been initiated. How would the committee know if he was a Wiccan unless they asked?

And that of course brings up a whole new pile of trouble: what business is it of the committee's? Since when does someone have to belong to a particular religion to become a Mason?

I agree with you Masonic Light. I am not particularly happy with their decision.
But I have to live with it, move, or opt out. I odn't intend to do the latter. I am also in the south and racism runs rampant here as well. Brothers not discluded.

As far as hell just being a seperation from god. Many believe that. I am not against that stance either. But many others believe otherwise. Step into a Baptist church sometime.

Many say we make that choice of our own free will then that God knows what choice we are going to make anyway, although we do not until or as we make it.

Well, that is similar to Sophie's choice in some ways. What kind of choice is it? Do it and suffer or do as I command. So even if you chose to do as commanded and your desire is to do otherwise.....your free will is in a way subverted. Like in sophie's choice....allow us to kill one child and you have to pic which one, or don't chose and you all die.

reply to post by sentientsojourner


I cannot believe without reason they kicked that poor fellow out.. About as UnMasonic as you get.. I have never told anyone what dogma I follow, simply for the reasons like this guy .. religion shouldn't be talked about, because it only gives enemies (even your brother, full of self-superior ideas is an enemy, to everyone) fuel to attack you.

It is also rather ironic that he was expelled by Masons for being a Wiccan, which just so happens...

Was founded by Masons.

But I can believe that some would stoop this low, not all Masons are blessed with reason, they are typical people and subject to typical ignorance. As I said before, we cannot even drink on Masonic property because Jesus said its eeevvviillll.

reply to post by stompk



I personally think Masonry does more harm than good.

But evil is a dunghill. Everyone stands on their own and points at everyone else's.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
As I said before, we cannot even drink on Masonic property because Jesus said its eeevvviillll.

I know you didn't mean that literally, but just to clarify:

Jesus didn't say drinking was evil, and when they ran out of wine at a wedding feast in Cana, he turned water into wine so the celebration could continue.

In his epistle to Timotheus, the Apostle Paul admonished him to "take a little wine for his stomach".

US Lodges at one time served alcoholic beverages until Prohibition, when all the bars were removed. Prohibition ended, but the bars were never reinstalled.

"Beer if evidence that God loves us, and wants us to be happy". - Most Worshipful Brother Benjamin Franklin, Past Grand Master of Masons in Pennsylvania, Patriot Extraordinaire, Beer Expert

reply to post by Masonic Light


Lol.. loved it.

Did I mean that? No.. not exactly. The Baptist at the Ohio communication did.. along when they called Jews and Catholics immoral for having beer at Church and Temple festivals / fundraisers.

reply to post by Rockpuck


You should have told him to go get dunked!

I just don't understand that sort of mentality. Thank God he created me as a heretic.