This is in my opinion one of the worst problems with our world today. I wish the term "religion" in the Constitution was used much more loosely to include ALL beliefs and not just ones which include a higher power (with a couple of exceptions).

People make laws about adultery, prostitution, gambling, buying alchohol on Sundays, selling cars on Sundays, and several others I don't care to think of right now, based on THEIR beliefs with no regard of others' beliefs.

To me it's MORE immoral to do this than it is to let (for example) 2 consenting people have sex for a few bucks, or let someone put THEIR money on the line for a chance to win more.

Sorry, rant over. Does anyone else have any opinions on this matter?

[edit on 11/11/2007 by bigbert81]

reply to post by bigbert81

---

Well, adultery breaks up families, prostitution often employs sex slaves, gambling attracts organized crime, though, I will admit a law against buying booze on Sunday is just silly. But except for that last one, there are usually legitimate reasons for so-called "morality" laws that you may not have thought of.

People tend to make laws on which they think will be best for the
majority of the population. Granted alot of them will get others upset
buts its better to upset 30% then 70%.

Look how they removed the banning of Alcohol because it upset most of the people ( and could get a hefty tax )

*points at you and shoots*

Allahu Akbar!!!!!!!

It's really simple, they want Everyone to be as miserable as they are. If they don't like how there body looks, they want to ban nudity. Of course your local church will be against gambling, they want your money instead. Prostitution is illegal, because they are against pre-marital sex.

reply to post by mentalempire

---

In regards to prostitution, sex slaves are part of an underground world. If they made it legal and regulated it, we would see a DECREASE in bad sex trade practices.

And as far as gambling, organized crime goes after things that ARE illegal, not usually things that aren't. Making things like this illegal is what draws organized crime. Remember Prohibition?

Think about this, is it right to force these morality laws on people. I agree that stuff like adultery is bad, but people should have the ability to live their lives how they want. Isn't that the definition of freedom?

[edit on 11/11/2007 by bigbert81]

I'm torn in two directions regarding this. It was once suggested to me that as people get older they grow more tolerant of other people's beliefs. I have not personally found that to be the case. The older I get the more tired I get of the same old stupidity being foisted upon me by people who are obviously ignorant. I get more irritated, and have much less patience with them to the point of trying to end their pointless conversation with me as quickly as possible by either saying something very insulting, or just refusing to continue the discussion. Because the discussion is essentially pointless because it always ends the same stupid way, with nobody gaining anymore fresh information or insight. That's one way I think about it.

The other way I think about it is that I have a kind of sad sympathy for these poor people, and want to cut them some slack. Like everybody, these people are trying to make sense out of this existence, and they feel like they really have an answer. It gives them a kind of thrill to have something positive to hold onto, and they're eager to share it with other people. They don't understand that they're ignorant, and caught up on the inside a huge mind game. They have no sense of perspective, and can't step back and objectively look at what they're doing and saying. They're caught up in it. They can't be convinced of it with logic or reason, because the feeling they have is stronger than anything you could say. They're like crazy people who have a completely different reality in their heads and there's nothing you can say to bring them out of it, and they don't want to be brought out of it. They prefer their craziness to your version of reality.

At that point, all I can do is shake my head and feel sorry for them, and try not to interact with them. They, on the other hand, are happy in their delusions, and feel compelled to "help" me see the light.

The obvious question that arises is that if these people are so happy, and I'm arguably less so, who has the better deal in life? The old Matrix question. If a delusion or illusion can bring more happiness to you in a life that (in my opinion) is full of horror, isn't it better to have that delusion than not? I don't know the answer to that. Just don't know.

reply to post by bigbert81

---

If your family was ripped apart by a divorce caused by adultery, maybe you would think differently. Also, gambling was legal in Vegas and that didn't stop it from becoming a hotbed of Mob activity.

reply to post by bigbert81

---

Or, on the other hand, sexual slavery may INCREASE because brothels would have increased legitimacy. The default assumption might be that they are doing things above-board.

In the case of religion I think some religious people believe that if sin/immorality comes into their community/nation, that it will undermine everyone. It will bring in the bad/devil, and undermine the well being of society.

I believe in live and let live myself. The actions of others might have some influence on me (I don't think physics knows this yet), but what folks do is their own business.

[edit on 11-11-2007 by Raoul Duke]

reply to post by Nohup

---

And isn't it sad that the people who you are primarily speaking of are the ones who are in positions of power? Here is a quick example of a conversation I had with a D.A. earlier this week:

Me: I never committed the crime you're accusing me of and the charge was dropped.

D.A.: You're still going to be treated as Guilty.

Ignorance is ruling the world.

reply to post by bigbert81

---

That does sound like an awful way for the DA to act, but we really need more context there.

reply to post by mentalempire

---

No, I would not feel differently. Why on Earth would I? You think it would matter if adultery was legal or not? C'mon man and think!

Keeping things illegal, like prostitution, provides a REASON to make things underground. If you can't understand this, then I'm wasting my time.

Also, check this out:


from: www.onlinenevada.org...

In this, you'll see that organized crime was drawn to ILLEGAL gambling out of predjudice, and THEN decided to move into Vegas later on, after they had experience with it. Hmmm, makes me wonder if gambling wasn't illegal, if that would have been part of their illegal activities (and then grew and progressed to Vegas).

reply to post by bigbert81

---

What YOU'RE failing to understand is that laws ARE actually an encouragement to better behavior. Why do you think just about EVERYONE wears seatbelts these days?

reply to post by mentalempire

---

I would say saving lives
but the guys I work with do it so they don't get a ticket

Because it's safer. I think it's very rare to find someone who will say that they wear a seatbelt PURELY because it's the law.

Why are you so anti-freedom? People should have the right to make their own decisions without having to abide by someone else's beliefs.

You are not giving people the credibility to make their OWN decisions. It should not be illegal if it doesn't infringe on other people's rights.

[edit on 11/11/2007 by bigbert81]

reply to post by bigbert81

---

You are dangerously close to outright trolling. I am not going to explain myself to you again.

Because dogmatic based belief systems do not allow their members to question firmly established stories/laws/rules/morales/norms. If it is a function of that system to to recruit more members than you will find how persistent a legion of unquestioning believers can be.

In contrast, other organizations that freely allow members to constantly redefine it's purpose do not tend to 'push' their beliefs on others. Unfortunately these groups are rare.

reply to post by mentalempire

---

WTF are you talking about? I started this thread trying to find some people's answers, I make a legitimate point, and now I'm trolling?!

Get out of here and don't come back if you can't make a reasonable statement!

reply to post by bigbert81

---

It's ok because it's part of their belief?