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Why do people think it's o.k. to force their moralities/beliefs on other people?

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posted on Nov, 12 2007 @ 11:54 PM
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reply to post by keltdruid65
 


By both I guess. It was in regards to a LEGAL object I had which was falsely accused of being involved in a crime being destroyed by the state. When I tried to fight it, this is what I was told by the D.A.




posted on Nov, 13 2007 @ 12:02 AM
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By the responses I'm reading, in people's eyes, the gov't can make any law restricting you to anything they want, and then sell you on why it's better for YOU.

It's illegal to go swimming after dark because you might not see something and hit your head on it and drown.

It's illegal to drive a coupe during rush hour because you have a better chance of dying in a wreck.

It's illegal to eat red meat more than once a month. After all, cholesterol is the #1 killer in the U.S.

All of these things are for your own safety because you could not see past protecting yourself, so we went ahead and stepped in to do it for you.

The mafia was formed through making alchohol illegal.

Street gangs get the bulk of their money to buy guns from selling illegal drugs.

Bad guys HAVE to steal girls for the sex trade because they simply cannot advertise for it.

I really didn't think I'd be alone in this. Huh. Amazing how people talk so anti-gov't, and then back their methods up. I guess most people think that all adults still need some sort of parental supervision.




[edit on 11/13/2007 by bigbert81]

[edit on 11/13/2007 by bigbert81]

[edit on 11/13/2007 by bigbert81]



posted on Nov, 13 2007 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 


Prostitution is not a victimless crime? Please do share why that is. 2 consenting adults have sex in exchange for some money. Yep, sounds pretty dreadful.

Why is alchohol legal, and pot not? You bring up theoretical problems with pot, the same that's with alchohol. What would be so different if we made pot legal?



posted on Nov, 13 2007 @ 02:42 AM
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reply to post by bigbert81
 


Pot should be totally legal. The only actual reason it's not is due to corrupt government and big business. Dupont (with deeeeeep pockets) lobbied lawmakers to make hemp Illegal. There are many medicinal uses, and if people could smoke a natural plant instead of having a toxic poison like alcohol legal, this country would be a much better place. How many people do you know killed or injured in a stoned driving accident?

www.abovepolitics.com...

www.ethicalmatters.co.uk...



posted on Nov, 13 2007 @ 03:07 AM
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reply to post by bigbert81
 


Sorry got caught up on the pot thing. Prostitution and gambling should be legal. Well, gambling is legal by me, as long as it's on the water, and even though prostitution is not legal, it's pretty damn close. You can look up any escort service in the phone book, or on Craigslist, and find a "date" for the night. They just say whatever the girl does with you personally is not included in the fee. There's loopholes for everything. They make the laws like this to keep the whiny yuppy soccer mom's happy, but unless you're driving around the block picking up crack whores like an idiot, you're not going to get caught. You get a smile, some girl pays her rent, everyone's happy.

Most of the laws can and are broken all the time. As long as you're not harming or pissing anyone off, chances are you're not going to get caught. If you know your neighbor is a pothead, you'll probably make jokes about them, and it's no big deal. But if that neighbor approaches your kid and tries to get them to do it, of course you're going to get angry and call the cops. The laws are made for people that are stupid enough to have to follow them.

Laws are just like speed limits. Just because a few morons don't have enough skill to drive at high rates of speed, we limit everyone to 55 or 65. I know that I would have no problem driving 100 on the highway. But the moron next to me can barely stay in their lane going 55. I keep my eyes open and speed all I want. How many accidents do I get into None. Same thing with drugs, gambling and prostitution. Some people just don't have the brain power to moderate. Gambling was never my thing, and I've never payed for sex.

Screw the law. If I want to use a plant for my enjoyment they'll have to taser it out of my hand. 420



posted on Nov, 13 2007 @ 03:39 AM
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It's all to do with fear. And controlling fear on a mass scale is an effective, but dangerous tool.

The Abrahamic religions especially attempt to influence people's fears of death by giving them a clear cut set of rules to lead their lives by - do this and you will die and be happy, don't do this and you will die and be in pain forever.

When believers encounter non-believers it brings up questions in their own minds - 'If they DON'T believe, WHY do I? Who is right?'.... This manifests itself externally as lashing out at non-believers, by extinguishing the threat of self-analysis, the fears do not rise to the surface.

All negative external force of human interaction - whether it be school yard bullying or global military conflict is borne out of fear.

The greater the force, the larger the fear. Religion's grasp on the individual psyche is extremely weak, but the accumulative effect of controlling a group of people, from a village to a country strengthens it's hold on the individual, because each person's belief, or rather more accurately, their outward allegiance to a religion, is enforced by their inclusion in the flock or society which reinforces the religions rules and systems.

Most people wish to belong. It's the human condition - We want confirmation that we are not alone, that our consciousness is not a singular case, that other people exist as we exist. This need to belong is also met by religion. Belonging to a congregration or group gives a sense of social belonging. This in itself isn't a bad thing, but it's coupling with the fear-enforcement is where the danger lies, and why religion is such a potent, emotive motivator for controlling large populations.

Fear is why people think it is OK to force their moral beliefs on others - they simply fear the self-analysis that encountering people with differing beliefs brings to them. It is easier for them to bully, kill, enslave or silence those with differing beliefs than it is to analyse one's own beliefs to accomodate or compromise.



posted on Nov, 13 2007 @ 07:09 AM
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Some are taught, such as by religion, and not know better. Others, by forcing their belief/s on you it makes them feel better. In that way, the more people that think they way they do, the more normal and comforting the belief/s become. It's then accepted by society or at least their circle of people.



posted on Nov, 13 2007 @ 09:11 AM
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For people saying "You can't force your beliefs on others" you are missing the point. The point of the thread as was outlined in the first post was LAWS, policy, social structure etc. that are a byproduct of the predominant religion of the area are what forces you to obey a part of that religion. You are not forced to obey the tenets of that religion but that religion may dictate you cannot buy booze on Sunday and you, who do not subscribe to that religion have the unfortunate predicament of acquiescing to that religion's beliefs.

In other words, my God is an Indian that turns into a wolf. He demands I drink store bought Coors Light on every Sunday in worship of him but I cannot exercise my religious freedom due to such things as Blue Laws. Ya dig?



posted on Nov, 13 2007 @ 09:45 AM
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reply to post by bigbert81
 


You made the claim about the cars not me, it is your burden therefore to provide the evidence backing your claim. If one cannot provide proof of a claim it is merely personal opinion and hearsay.

Now back to the prostitution ordeal, I was quite aware of the fact about legal prostitution. But that does not push away the facts that there is more involvement around that by the government. Who else is going to control the age and legalization issue I mentioned earlier? The owner? Doubtful as you can see that many people will take advantage of any situation given to them this would include bringing in underage and illegal persons. There are illegal’s who pay taxes on the money they make you realize this don’t you? All they need is a fake SS number and they can get a job. Even so who is going to check that everyone working there is being reported? The government and that means MORE my tax dollars are paying for some person to have sex. I’m already paying enough for that when it comes to the moms who want to do nothing but spit out offspring and not care for them and for health care because people feel a need to jump from one partner to another and spread STDs.

Even if it is just a half hour random check by an on duty officer I would rather see the officer out spending that time catching real criminals than worrying about checking some place because a guy cannot get sex for free. Free sex is extremely easy to find why on earth pay for it, you can do enough of that when you’re dating or married and still be safer.

Not that I care that someone wants to have sex and pay for it, but when it does affect me and my money then I have a problem with it. When the fact that someone wants to pay for sex and it affects someone who is a minor I have a problem with that also. I have been a kid, teen, and young adult I also have children. I know for a fact that kids do things and do not think of long term consequences there for they need protection from others and themselves. Look how many teens die each year in car accidents, this is because they are not looking at long term effects and thinking only in the short term they think they can handle anything that comes their way. Many adults in the U.S. cannot even think in the long term that’s why so many are living on money they do not have and drowning in credit debt.

It is not so much a thing of pushing beliefs off on others (which again I say is not possible but rather you can try a push people to abide by your will), but it is rather a thing of using common sense. Again many seem to have a lack of ability to do this, addictions in the U.S. are rampant and destroy families many times my tax dollars go to help these families in many different ways. People are becoming increasingly more obese because they spend more time watching TV or sitting in front of a PC than burning calories and eating the right foods. Now they are passing laws (NY banned trans fat) because people are too stupid to control themselves plain and simple.

If this was a perfect world and everyone could keep their actions from affecting me that would be great do whatever, but sadly we live in a world of idiots who cannot even take care of themselves so we must all join in and babysit one another.
Raist



posted on Nov, 13 2007 @ 10:10 AM
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Basically I’m saying that because some other idiot cannot keep from spreading STDs, clogging their arteries, getting into accidents and many, many other things I also must suffer some.

But would I rather not be able to satisfy an urge any time I want and pay more in taxes and medical expenses or have to wait a bit and pay less all the way around? I will go with the way of paying less and wait if I must.
If I want to drink I’ll do it at home, I want sex I’ll find it on my own (if I were not married) and get it for free, I want a big greasy burger well I’ll do that at home to then I’ll go for a run or whatever so that it is not quit as unhealthy. Basically If you want sex booze or whatever you desire is fine unless it takes more out of my pocket.

As soon as the medical places stop increasing their prices and insurance rates stop increasing because of those who are too stupid to control themselves, I will be more than happy to not say a word about the stupid things people do. But as it is the ever increasing amount of overweight people along with the ever increasing amount of STDs add in those who do not pay their bills because they cannot control their spending and are over stretched on their credit I am helping to pay for enough stupidity of others.

Sorry but that is the way it is in a free country. We in the U.S. are free to a degree, but we are not free absolutely. Our laws or many of them anyway are designed to protect everyone in a sense from those who are too stupid to control themselves. Granted there are many laws that are and have been created that are limiting our freedoms promised by the constitution I would worry more about laws that limit our freedoms of speech and to protest and even our right to bear arms more than I would one about prostitution and gambling if I were you, but then again everyone has different priorities I guess.

Raist



posted on Nov, 13 2007 @ 10:19 AM
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I agree fully with BigBert, I mean this country is supposed to be the land of the free; correct? Now I'm not saying that Prostitution and many other laws are not made to protect things that are immoral, but if you wanna sell your ass for cash then thats your perogitive. Many laws in america clearly contridict other laws i.e. you can't drink alcohol till your 21 unless you go into the armed service and kill a few people. Also like bert said the fact that alcohol is legal but the good ol' mary j is illegal doesn't make any sense at all. I mean for starters there isn't one conclusive case of someone dieing directly from mj use, alcohol has hundreds of thousands same with cigarettes. Now I'm not saying it's impossible to form lung cancer from smoking, but I do think smoking something thats natural gives you a bigger edge (for anyone that would say I don't know where I get my weed and it could have thousands of toxins in it, it doesn't I know where mine comes from
). So I mean I could rant about laws allllllllllllllllllllllllllll DAY, but common doesn't being an american and being a hypocrit go hand in hand?


P.S. My parents went through a hard divorce, I belive that laws instilled by the government not only drag out the divorce process but make it much more difficult as well. Although getting half of your cheating spouses funds is a plus, money doesn't buy happiness, and going through the work to get the money just makes you more depressed in the long... run.

[edit on 13-11-2007 by Lokey13]



posted on Nov, 13 2007 @ 10:29 AM
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Also I agree with the fact of making things illegal promotes more and more illegal behavior. If all drugs were legal, where would these terrorists, who supposably get all their funding from drugs make anymore money? Legalize everything and make laws stating that if its your drug problem and your in the hospital if you don't have the money for care you don't get any, reap what you sew. Taxes wouldn't go up and our economy would go through the roof, geez i believe I just came up with a plan to save america's economy: Horray!!!!!!!



posted on Nov, 13 2007 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by Raist
 


So what it sounds like, is because YOU don't care for it, and YOU can go out and do things how you like and feel comfortable with, then everyone else has to follow with you guidelines? If it works for you, it by-God works for EVERYONE. Because everyone in the world has lived the same life as you apparently.

Wake up to how different people are, and how different people's views are. Just because it works for YOU, doesn't mean it works for everyone.

Also, perhaps you missed the whole 'Blue Law' post. JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T HEARD OF IT DOESN'T MAKE IT OPINION AND HEARSAY. I suggest that if you see something you are not familiar with, you check it out real quick instead of accusing me of hearsay because it doesn't happen where you live. Sheesh!

Also, check the facts on legalized prostitution before you post again.

[edit on 11/13/2007 by bigbert81]



posted on Nov, 13 2007 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by Lokey13
 


Only problem with that last bit is what about those that are elderly that have trouble affording their health care that worked hard their whole life and did not take drugs? Should they also be told to bad if you cannot pay you just suffer and die? How do we distinguish on the issue are all told too bad or do we help some? What about the child born a drug addict who has never chosen to do drugs are we going to tell the baby too bad you cannot pay it is your problem?

Taking drugs can affect others in many ways. Should we allow people to do drugs but only in a certain place until they are no longer high so that they do not get behind the wheel or go to work or have sex and get pregnant? Should we force an abortion on a woman who uses drugs? What if she would have normally had the child and that child does something great (rare yes but has happened). By forcing such things upon those people you then do just what this thread is about to start with. The world is full of never ending choices and rules in life and it always will be, what do you expect from a world that has such a great diversity of people and ideas?

I have noticed a great deal of selfishness in people throughout the world things are fine as long as it is their way but anything they do not agree with is wrong. I would bet money that everyone posting in this thread wants something to be illegal that someone else is fine with. Most people fail to see how each and every action they do has potential to and often does affect someone somewhere in a negative way. Simply driving my car pollutes the air and means greater risk of war in an oil rich country. By owning a computer I have also added to the risk of war in an oil rich country (plastic on the PC is made of petroleum), I have caused company to put together and create things that are toxic to the environment around me. The list could go on and on with things that can and will affect negatively. Our choices today will affect our children’s lives and our grandchildren’s lives in the future.

Also corruption and illegal activities do follow money this is one reason many places are opposed to gambling. This is obvious in the areas around here that allowed river boats in their area. The areas are not getting better or larger as promised but becoming dirtier and more stressed with possible crime. One area of the city may prosper while the other dies nothing is gained with many possible losses.

Would it not be better for the U.S. to concentrate on education than entertainment? The way things are moving and this thread is more evidence that people would rather be entertained than educated.

Raist



posted on Nov, 13 2007 @ 11:11 AM
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Does noone on this thread know the damage prostitution wreaks on MEN and WOMEN???

As a former stripper, I cannot express the disgust for yourself AND man that occupation (stripping) gives you, and prostitution is worse!!!

Morality goes hand-in-hand with civility, diligence and well-being!




posted on Nov, 13 2007 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by bigbert81

Prostitution is not a victimless crime? Please do share why that is. 2 consenting adults have sex in exchange for some money. Yep, sounds pretty dreadful.


Of course there are ways it can be done where there are no victims such as in the case with some brothels in NV, but that is not how the majority happens. The prostitute is in most cases the victim here not the john. An extremely small percent of prostitutes do what they do because that is what they want to do. Very few of these women are actually in control of their situation too, so it is not two consenting adults exchanging money for sex it is one adult telling another adult they WILL pull tricks for money, and so the consensual part is really just the john who pays the money.



Why is alchohol legal, and pot not? You bring up theoretical problems with pot, the same that's with alchohol. What would be so different if we made pot legal?


As my first post explains, tell me how do you control its use? Do you want to work next to a guy who likes to toke it up on lunch, or do you want to drive on a road with people influence by it? How long exactly does THC influence a person’s mind?

Also in a country where smoking is banned more and more every year how do we interduse a whole new form of it.



posted on Nov, 13 2007 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by Raist
 


Yes, I could literally take just about anything, and find a far out negative to it. That doesn't mean it should be illegal. In that case, we wouldn't be able to do things like eat red meat.

Check the sig I have below. A famous quote by Benjamin Franklin. I'd take his word over yours.



posted on Nov, 13 2007 @ 11:27 AM
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reply to post by bigbert81
 


I don't know where you're from, but Benjamin Franklin didn't mean the freedom for prostitution or drugs at the time he said that.

Jesus Will come and give us ALL Moral Absolutes, eventually.

Better to be reborn as a new man, now, by faith in Jesus Christ-Jeshua he Messiach.

He can give you the love of your life and joy without drugs.



posted on Nov, 13 2007 @ 11:27 AM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 


Why don't I hear you making the same arguments about alchohol. No wait, because pot is illegal, therefore MUST be worse, right?

Also, you say that it's a small percentage of brothels? How about 100% of them in the U.S. Doesn't sound like a small exception anymore does it?

All women in brothels DO have a choice to be there. In fact the girls that work there love it. They make BANK. Do you honestly think that if prostitution was legal that MORE women would be FORCED to do it? Why do you think they have a pimp forcing them to do it? Could it be because it's illegal, and therefore underground? If prostitution was legal, women would go to brothels, not pimps.



posted on Nov, 13 2007 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by bigbert81
 


Never did I say because I felt. I said because I have to pay for it.
Also you made the claim about the cars it you’re your responsibility to provide evidence that is what debate is about. If you are aiming to persuade people to your ideas then you must provide evidence to go along with any claims you make. Just reading it on ATS does not make it so. You never posted about a Blue Law and it was never directly linked to car sales in any of your posts. If I missed it in another post I am sorry, but you still were making a claim and not backing that claim with evidence.

Again on legalized prostitution someone has to be monitoring the whole thing the government is who is doing that. How does the government pay for this? Taxes. The same way they charge taxes for everything if it is taxed your tax dollars pay for the legislation of that item whether it is a chair or sex. Your money is going to pay to make sure that there is nothing in that chair that will harm you; your money goes to pay to make sure there are no illegal or underage prostitutes working at the brothel.
If my taxes are going to make sure some body can get sex when they choose then yes I have a problem with that.

I would rather direct my taxes to education and health care. Unfortunately much of my taxes already goes to allow people to have sex and do drugs and whatever else they please such as the murder of innocent women and children in a country with a great deal of oil. I cannot do anything about that but I would not like to add more to that willingly.

Your anger toward me and assumptions about me are misdirected and off track. I never said because I did not agree with it anywhere in my posts in fact I said just the opposite. To restate what I once said as soon as it stops affecting me through cost or some other way do whatever you want to do, but as long as I must pay for it and it continues to affect me I am opposed to it. I don’t care if you want to pay for sex all day long; pay until you go broke for all I care. But if I have to help maintain a place for you to have sex then yes I have a problem with that. Is it slightly more clear this time? If not go get someone to read it for you. I want to spend my money I worked for on my family not to maintain to legality of a place to get sex.

Raist



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