Are you a real American?

reply to post by semperfortis

quick question, were you in the Navy or the Marines? cause your missing the "Fi" in semper fi and semperfortis is navy, yes I understand the Marines is a department of the Navy, just curious,

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
there are no americans, canadians, mexicans, french, maltese, chinese, japanese, australians, russians, sudanese, burmese, ethiopians, brazillians, etc etc etc etc

there is you, there is me, there are all those other people on the planet and we're all humans

why the hell do we need to separate ourselves by nationality?

Well said

J.

Originally posted by tac109
So if sombody born in Puerto Rico, who cant speak english, and has never been to the United States travels to Germany, and sombody asks them what nationality they are, will they say American?

Well, strictly speaking - I'd call myself a 'North American' - which is what I am. But I'm not a U.S. citizen - no. 'America' (or to call it what it is: 'North America') is actually a continent - if you want to get into semantics - and the 'United States of America', or the USA is a country.

J.

[edit on 12-11-2007 by jimbo999]

reply to post by tac109


Marines....

Semperfortis is Latin for "Always Strong" and as you can see, I need to be..hahahaha...

Semper is just short for Semperfortis....

Semper

Originally posted by pluckynoonez
Hulk Hogan is...

a buffoon!

J.

reply to post by sobolwolf


Aha...the voice of reason!
We have to realise that what we do affects not only ourselves, but the whole planet, either directly or indirectly, so trying to score points for patriotism is like kicking sand in the face of the Earth.
Notice that the question was "are you a real American?", not an Englishman, New Zealander, australian, Cambodian, Nigerian etc because we don't have an inferiority complex (so obvious, with the compensation for shortcomings, if you pardon the phrase, by the military industrial complex and the almost Nazi-like worship of the flag

www.alternet.org...

www.new-enlightenment.com...

I, for one, am glad that ich bin nein American (apologies to JFK for the paraphrasing)

This is my anwser to your question OP...



[edit www.youtube.com...//us.f608.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter%3FMsgId%3D1910_11382354_89764_2340_2091_0_399 977_5309_359026232%26Idx%3D7%26YY%3D8&iurl=http%3A//img.youtube.com/vi/QZFkZiwMLZ4/default.jpg&t=OEgsToPDskLCftiQ9mqqunleZ1HYhsUc&rel=1&border=0on 12-11-2007 by antar]

[edit on 12-11-2007 by antar]

so youre saying that if your not in the military your not american? bogus claims. I don't have to flash the american flag or serve the country to be american. it's not that easy.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
there are no americans, canadians, mexicans, french, maltese, chinese, japanese, australians, russians, sudanese, burmese, ethiopians, brazillians, etc etc etc etc

there is you, there is me, there are all those other people on the planet and we're all humans

why the hell do we need to separate ourselves by nationality?

We separate ourselves because we have competing interests.

I'm an American. I'm white, and I have no clue where my ancestors came from though I think we can assume they came from Europe. I think an American is a US citizen. I don't see "American" as a mentality.

I don't think immigrants should (illegal or otherwise) should fly their native country's flags, and I certainly don't think that a baby born to an illegal immigrant on our soil should be considered a US citizen. They should be shipped back across the border where they belong until they can show enough respect for this country to enter legally.

All this debate over illegal Aliens. Now we know how Native Americans felt. To them, we of European, etc. descent are ALL illegal aliens!

Looks like it's true, what goes around, comes around.

Originally posted by Karlhungis
Someone sent me a quote by Theodore Roosevelt on being an American:

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

He must have read my mind

I have said for years that hyphenated-Americans are, by self-definition, second class citizens.

Originally posted by Langolier

I'm an American. I'm white, and I have no clue where my ancestors came from though I think we can assume they came from Europe. I think an American is a US citizen. I don't see "American" as a mentality.

I don't think immigrants should (illegal or otherwise) should fly their native country's flags, and I certainly don't think that a baby born to an illegal immigrant on our soil should be considered a US citizen. They should be shipped back across the border where they belong until they can show enough respect for this country to enter legally.

See this is exactly what Im talking about you say your white your American and your ancestors are from Europe. They are already here but when they got here how did they get here legally or did they migrate and come in here illegally? I would bet the latter as it is very difficult to do it legally and it takes a long time and some people need to leave their country now! But what if when they migrated legally or not they were turned away because America was already getting full then you wouldnt be here you would be in Europe trying to get here. What you dont seem to understand is that America was made by people illegally immigrating from other countries to escape oppression and to live free but when they got here there was already people here so what did we do we tried to coexist then blamed the natives of being demons and killed most of them and claimed their land.

Now you have to come in this country legally as in ask for permission to stay here so why is it so different now? because we "own" this land? no its because the government wants their cut and that is it. That is why illegal immigrants are not liked by the government too much because they dont pay/report taxes and the government looses millions per year thats it. I am glad you said "I certainly don't think that a baby born to an illegal immigrant on our soil should be considered a US citizen." because that if that was the case you need to get shipped back to Europe also "They should be shipped back across the border where they belong" so know we know whats really bothering you??? because not all illegal immigrants are south of the border. If this it the case then you are not American because you are only considered American because you were born here, so what should we do about that?

Originally posted by tac109
Another issue is...When an illegal alien comes over here and gives birth somany people say that that child is American I believe that just because your born here, that does not make you an American, it makes you a U.S. citizen, when you grow older you have to make that choice of calling yourself an american, I see somany people who call them selves american yet they fly another countrys flag, speak another language, celebrate all their other countries holidays

Let me first of all say that this kind of debate can lead us down a very dangerous path! Saying somebody is a "real" american and somebody else is not implies they are a lesser form of americans or in some other way to be considered unworthy of the title "American". I consider that to be just as outrageous as the attitude by some that if you critizise or disagree with the president\administration you are "unpatriotic" or "unamerican". When did having your own opinion become "unamerican"? But okay, on to the question...

The last time I checked America was not a country but a continent, and by definition an American is a person who is a citizen of any of the countries located on the American continent.

"American
noun, adjective [C]
(a person) of or coming from the United States, or of or coming from North America or South America"

dictionary.cambridge.org...*1+0&dict=A

But I don't think that is the definition of American you are looking for. I think you are referring to the meaning most commonly used in daily speach, ie. American = of or from the United States. In this case the definition of American is also quite simply any person who is a US citizen. That includes people born in the US and people who have moved to the US and obtained citizenship.

That's it really...there's no "real" or "unreal/fake" americans. What you are trying to do here is define American as a set of values and beliefs, ie. "-Real Americans value democracy, freedom and the constitution". But these values are common to just about any modern civilized country. It's nothing unique to the US. So being for democracy doesn't make you any more american than being for communism for that matter.

The second problem with this belief\value definition is that you can't find a single country on the planet where the entire population share the same beliefs and values. So that is a poor way of defining a nation\population. For example, can a "Real American" also be a muslim? And if not, why not?

A friend of mine has a dual citizenship. He is both a US and Norwegian citizen by definition, but he is born and raised in Norway and thus calls himself Norwegian. If he were to move to the US he should be able to call himself an American if he wants, and still celebrate 17. May (as many americans with norwegian ancestors do today) and 4. July. Being a citizen of one country does not exclude you from being a citizen of a second country. Again, this is "by definition", and not something you can argue one way or another.

You can sit and argue forever about what makes a "Real American", but it's always gonna be a subjective perception and not something that can be defined and carved in stone.

Originally posted by Langolier
We separate ourselves because we have competing interests.

yet, oddly enough, we have one singular interest that tribalism threatens

SURVIVAL.

I'm an American. I'm white, and I have no clue where my ancestors came from though I think we can assume they came from Europe. I think an American is a US citizen. I don't see "American" as a mentality.

then you're not paying attention. every country has somewhat of an overall mentality which is then divided into regional and local mentalities
though there are quite a few individuals who are the exception to this

I don't think immigrants should (illegal or otherwise) should fly their native country's flags,

america's strength is in that diversity that people hold onto from their countries.
just look at the "traditional" foods of america

hotdogs: german
apple pie: german
hamburgers: german
french fries: irish...
pancakes: russian
pizza: italian
tacos: mexican

and I certainly don't think that a baby born to an illegal immigrant on our soil should be considered a US citizen. They should be shipped back across the border where they belong until they can show enough respect for this country to enter legally.

don't talk about respect when you live in a country that has a history of not respecting.

Originally posted by Langolier
[I think an American is a US citizen.]

What if the 'American' is from South America? The U.S.A. does not have the monopoly on the word 'America'

I don't think immigrants should (illegal or otherwise) should fly their native country's flags, and I certainly don't think that a baby born to an illegal immigrant on our soil should be considered a US citizen. They should be shipped back across the border where they belong until they can show enough respect for this country to enter legally.

Sounds like you should join the War on Tourism

reply to post by tac109


My great something or another was in the Spanish Armada, went to Ireland for rescue, made it to America, and then back with a family. So somehow in there I'm .000001% Native or something.

I think being an American means that we believe in freedom and the right to evolve and become better people. Many people live in America but do not believe in the values of freedom and are very prejudicial towards other people. Yes we had slaves in America in its infancy, so did Egypt, Africa, and so many other cultures and nations.
Slavery has existed for centuries and still does. Not every person in America had slaves or believed in slavery, but I also don't see all those opposed today fighting to stop it every where on the planet. But we did, we abolished it and we do not have it today.
We the framers of the Constitution and other documents, wrote the things they did, they did so with a vision for the future.
They knew that fighting against the issues of the day would only prolong the fight for freedom, so they wrote for all time. "All men are created equal." Though the appearance of slavery exsited and they knew they could not put it down, they could write inclusive language for future generations to live up to.

Being American, is being a person of vision, of inclusiveness, or freedom, equality for all. maybe we are not there yet, but if we stay true to the ideal we can be. I live on Earth, I am an Earthling, but I am an American because I stand for truth, justice and freedom. Maybe my leaders don't, maybe not all citizens do. I think we are subconsciously pushing ourselves into an armed conflict because we all want freedom and it is opposed by the world leaders and peoples desire for freedom is so great we will fight to get it or keep it.

There are so many people fighting globally for freedom, human rights, equallity, religious freedom, to stop the global thiefs from taking our homes, food, livelyhoods, just as the first Americans did. maybe the next revolution needed is the one where we the people throw all the leaders in the river and we build a worl where freedom reigns for all.

Yes I know you think this to idealistic, maybe if we all lived today as if this were true........no to much to ask for a world that prefers violence in so many aspects of their lives.

My take on this is the same as some religions. Your parents can be from any background, but it is what you choose to be in your heart that determines what you are. I believe in this country and it's ideals and I want to live here and be part of it, so yes I am an American. There are some who live here, condem everything about the country and yet happily take it's freedoms for granted. Are they Americans? No, they only reside in the United States. Before you make a claim as to what you are be sure you are willing to be it full time and not just "clock in" when cetain bandwagons roll by. United States of America, good times and bad, it's my country and I serve it proudly as an American Soldier.

An American is a person who live or lived in America.
America is a continent. So, a Mexican, a Brazilian, a Canadian, all are American just like a USA citizen.
But, the real Americans are the people who lived in America before the Europeans invade their continent.
Not that your family has lived in massachusetts in 1633 make you more american that someone who was born in New york yesterday from parents born in Tokyo. Is that to be from somewhere your family must be there for 400 years ? or 300, or 200 years ?
"When I said that America started the same way every other country did I meant..People find land, create a flag for that land, then create a name for that flag" ==> tac109
the Europeans didn't just find a land, they killed the people who lived on that land, and put them in reserves. Don't tell me you don't know that, it happened in Australia too, that's the way Europeans used to do.
USA have a heavy past of slavery and discrimination, segregation, it's not a land of freedom like the "patriots" want to believe. It's just a group of countries made on a stolen territory. And the chiefs os that group of countries now don't want other people (ie : mexicans) to come on that stolen territory.

Know your History

I have Native American blood
I have English blood
I have German blood
I have French blood

My family has been in the U.S for a long time, I have a lot of veterans in my family, I'm a Libertarian...

Yes, I consider myself a real American. I consider every U.S citizen an "American", this thread is dumb.