Forgotten Abominations Of The Bible.

Well, 4thD, if I were to commit adultery, I believe that the Hebrew Scriptures speak very clearly and precisely about that. I'm wrong, I've sinned. Adultery, then, is sin.

If I'm gay, a general perception exists that God doesn't hate me, He just hates . . . well, me. And similar feelings coming not on the occasion here and there, but as a general state of attack from nearly all areas of life, I can see how that could become a life-concern for some.
The problem occurs, I think, not when the unknowable God has been decided for that He hates the bad act, but when said bad act has already been identifed as the very person who commits it (read gay). I phrase it this way because I do not yet know how one can be separated mentally from one's own sexuality.

It's like, in a flipped universe, if heterosexuality was taboo in society. If you were told by authority figures that God doesn't hate guys and gals, He just hates when they have sex . . wouldn't you (as a heterosexual in this "what if?" scenario) -- personally -- require additional intel about this God who punishes eternally in hellfire for wrong positions taken in the universe? I certainly would. I'd need some serious personal study in the bible that supposedly taught this shocking news. . .

And hellfire, in this universe, is a big problem for same-sex attractions, unless we find that the Hebrew Scriptures teach a different lesson than their offspring translations have traveled down through the centuries to proclaim.

I hate when people say, "trust me on this one" but trust me on this one, I have no need to reposition reality to accommodate my near-perfect imperfections, nor will I ever knowingly bend what is clear and obvious to support my point. What if my point is wrong? Then I'm grabbing at branches and vines as I free-fall to my interpretative death trying desperately for a last-minute remake of the world to fit a flawed and therefore intellectually fatal point.

And though you have no real reason to actually trust me on this one, I don't believe at this point in time you have any real reason not to

And, alas, that is probably going to have to remain my unsupported opinion regarding how many finger-pointing folk would likely be Christian, but I do base that on my own perceptions when I notice how many people around me quote Scripture at strategic moments, and generally most people in my own decently-large circle claim the title.

My P'sOV.

[edit on 04/12/2007 by OptionToChoose]

Ahh yes. The geat bible and its "abominations" I do believe that the bible clearly states that homosexuality among MEN anyways is WRONG and IS a sin. I have a few gay friends so for all you gays on here dont go throwin rocks at me just yet But the bible does say that does it not? My personal opinion on the matter is well i believe in rebirth for starters. And i believe in karma. I say believe because well...idk..i would say i KNOW this but most of you then would call me out to proove it. And i cant proove it with physical evidence. So ill just say i believe to keep it simple but i just wanted to clear that up.

I believe that Gay people have committed some type of karmic sin in a past life. And as a result are born into this life Gay. Just as some people are born into this life with various defects because of karma that they accumulated in a past incarnation. Because lets face it people...Homosexuality goes against nature in that if everyone were gay the human race would die out eventually because there would be no babies being born. So obviously it is not a good thing for humanity as a whole. A child having 2 dads is also not natural and the child would not be nurtured as they should be and would not grow up as they should.

So where am i going with this? I just think that everyone should deal with there past karma and not add to it in this life. If everyone would just realize that rebirth is a fact of life i think the world would be a much better place. I mean why would people strap bombs onto themselves and blow themselves up if they knew the karma they acquire in doing so only leads them to lifetimes of suffering being born into many bad incarnations.

Like i said i have nothing against gay people. To me they are just the same as anybody else. We are all souls and we should all help each other to wake up from this dream we call reality, we need to focus on our similarities instead of our differences. Our similarities vastly outnumber our differences anyways. People need to realize that life is meant for them ot wake up from. As long as people desire the world over god then they will stay here until they finally desire god over all else. Do good deeds, meditate frequently, withdraw into the self whenever possible and come out when necessary.

Learn to let go of all that you hold dear. For in death you will have to let go of it all to soon.

Peace.

reply to post by zysin5

I just dont understand why you would have to go to hell just becasue you live a lifestyle that others don't agree with??

Living a lifestyle that others don't agree with doesn't send one to hell. The reason people will go to hell is for braking one of God's laws. We are under no obligation to accept His laws, He wont force us to obey. However disobedience does have it's penalties as written in the Bible.

Since you have already stated your position regarding the scripture and Jesus, you will find out after death if you were right or wrong. Now lets look and see if we can find any mention of "lifestyle" in His laws.

2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. Exodus 20:2-17

I myself do not see "lifestyle" mentioned. However, I am not asking you to accept the biblical point of view, that is up to you. Right or wrong is for you to choose.

On one last note, every time we brake one of God's laws our conscience bothers us. The reason for this is "con" means with and science means "knowledge". Thus our conscience bothers us because it is "with knowledge" that we violate His laws. This is what the Bible teaches and I accept it.

Jesus made it even simpler to understand, "love God with all your heart, mind, body and soul and your neighbor as yourself.". All ten of the commandments are contained within that statement.

Originally posted by Rasputin13
More Christian-bashing on ATS. This stuff never gets old, I suppose.

I love how the OP is bashing Christianity because of the actions and words of a few. The overwhelming majority of Christians, I believe, have no problem with homosexuality.

Meanwhile, there are other religions (Islam) that are STILL stoning homosexuals to death on a daily basis. But why worry about that, right? After all, there's a mean sentence in the Bible!

Bring on the pro islamist, and we'll have a discussion, right now i dont think we have anybody on ATS who are willing to stand for such criminal acts. When that is said, the bible tells us to stone men and children when going against the bible ...

Btw:

I am truly sorry for those of you who are offended by some christians. I would like to let you know that not all christians are so judgemental. I for one have been a christian most of my life, and I am abhorred by what some christians say and claim. I joined this site simply to try to put a voice of reason to some of these religious threads.
First I would like to state that all sin is equal in Gods eyes, except for "blaspheming the holy spirit". So we are all equally guilty in Gods eyes. So I am no better than a homosexual.
I would also like to add that the Old testament is there as an example for us. It is to show us that we are not capable of fullfilling the law of moses. It is expressly this reason why we need a savior. I would also like to state the paul clearly says that " all things are lawfull, unto me, but all things are not expedient." So it is my opinion if you are homosexual and a believer in Christ it is lawful for you to be who you are, but according to the bible it may not be in your best interest.
For what it is worth.
Peace to you all.
Bruno

Romans:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.

20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,

23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,

25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.

27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,

30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;

32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

reply to post by jakyll


Wee you got me 10 minutes after I woke up, it's on! I can't believe 2 people starred the OP. Uh, your thread is terribly silly and your quotes are taken out of context. Not only that but they're all Old Testament.

And lookie here.. DEUTERONOMY, LEVITICUS .. wow .. the two most quoted Bible books there are by enemies of Religion! Why? because the BOOKS ARE SILLY when regarding the rules they list.

Jesus did not even follow Leviticus.

Proverbs is a BOOK OF POEMS SANG WITH A STRING INSTRUMENT.
(feel stupid yet?)

And the reason it says not to cross dress is because it is insinuating people dressed as men who are women will attract other women, and those men dressed as women will attract other men. Not good. This isn't SPARTA, where the whole male stock is GAY, and dress their women as men just to get turned on enough to do it. Now that is pretty despicable. My College History Professor taught me that.

My overall point: Your quotes aren't saying anything bad really. Try quoting a part of the NEW testament? What you people do with this nitpicking the Bible crap is no different than me walking behind you at all times copying down your every word, but then only saying outloud the stupidest things you said like SIX years ago when you were mashed drunk at your friend's house watching porno. It's not the kinda stuff youd want the world to know you by.

Likewise, God doesnt want the world to have a bad impression of the Bible just because all his enemies are quoting the passages that have been mistranslated, added in there altogether, falsely "inspired" to be written,

or in the case of the odd rules in Leviticus, a primitive list of ways to keep yourself free from disease, illness, pests, parasites, and to have good health.

Originally posted by munson
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.

27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

24) This means that God gave them free will, made it possible for Men to get sexual pleasure from other Men and vice versa. He allowed them to, and in doing so, they dishonored their bodies and became unclean. Unclean is a reference to purity of the person not so much dirt, but I'm sure you can draw the sexually transmitted diseases from this verse. God gave them up means God allowed them, he did not put anything in the way to stop them of their lusts. Remember, Satan has domain over the physical, and temptations of the flesh.

26) Same thing, allowed them to do vile things passionately with one another of the same sex. He goes on to say, EVEN WOMEN, as in .. even those who do not have an extension item but .. and inverted item, even THEY, were having gay sexual relations with each other, instead of with men.

27) Men continued to have gay sex in the sight of the Lord. He finds it Shameful because we are not anatomically created for that. And their penalty is that performing these actions are a sin. But any sin can be forgiven if you're genuine.

God is basically saying, if you're not going to use it for reproduction and only pleasure, to the point of treacherously using it on others' rear sections, or if you try to shove one hole into another hole when you really need a stick just for the pleasure, God says that isnt right. God says any selfish pleasure is wrong. That includes feel good drugs, one night stands, regular male/female sexual relations built on lust, etc.

reply to post by Rasputin13


As i have said on other threads,I was baptized and raised a Catholic.I went to a Catholic school and a Catholic college.I live in a country that has beed shaped by the Catholic faith for 100's of years!

Islam has had little bearing on my life,as has Judaism,Hinduism,Buddhism,etc.

And as i said earlier (and in the start of the thread),most Christians only know about Leviticus but its the fundamentalist types who go on about it!!

reply to post by runetang


Why is it when (some) Chrisitans are faced with something disagreeable in the Bible they start blubbing about it being Old Testament,not the New???

If you do not believe in the OT because the teachings of Jesus contradict nearly all of it,then get rid of it!
That means no Genisis,no Flood,no 10 Commandments,no 7 Deadly Sins,etc.
You can't just pick and choose the parts of the Bible you like or agree with!!


This thread is to show how irrelevant some abominations/sins have become in the world,and that the 'sin' of homosexuality should also be treated in the same way.Being Gay doesn't harm people and its not bad for you!

And the reason it says not to cross dress is because it is insinuating people dressed as men who are women will attract other women, and those men dressed as women will attract other men. Not good. This isn't SPARTA, where the whole male stock is GAY, and dress their women as men just to get turned on enough to do it. Now that is pretty despicable. My College History Professor taught me that.

Your college professor was an idiot mate!
Spartan men had male lovers for many reason,heres 2.a)it stengthend their bond while fighting and b)they didn't have to worry about camp whores sharing their secrets with the enemy.No where have i ever read that the men had to dress up as women!??!
And cross dressing does not have to insinuate anything sexual,as in them days male and female dress was very similar!

Try quoting a part of the NEW testament?

OK.(and i'm assuming you mean something that Jesus said.)

Matthew.10:34-37.

10:34.Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.10:35.For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.10:36.And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.10:37.He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

How very loving of him!

Mark.7:9-10.

7:9.And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.7:10.For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

That is Jesus getting angry at some Hebrews who have not kept the Commandments of Moses.He believes that children who curse parants should be killed.Like God.Nice!




[edit on 10-11-2007 by jakyll]

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.

27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

Might this apply only to straight men and women, as in order to leave the natural use of the woman one would already have to be there? Seems totally natural (that which automatically occurs) for a same-sex oriented person to already be involved with same-sex situations, so from what did this person turn? If a person is heterosexual, then it is indeed unnatural for them to become attracted to the same sex . . .

Originally posted by jakyll
Matthew.10:34-37.

10:34.Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.10:35.For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.10:36.And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.10:37.He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

How very loving of him!

Jesus knew that conflict and disagreement would come between those that chose to follow him and those that reject him. Heck you don't need to be divinely inspired to realize that....hence the sword. Though I know that is a favorite verse anti-Christians like to use against Christians so you haven't disappointed.

reply to post by kinglizard

I guess it's just as well you start talking about the apocrypha and how the early church removed them for issues dealing with control blah blah blah...this is ATS so it should start leaning to towards the conspiratorial angle. But you can count the Christians out of the discussion because we only discuss our faith in relation to OUR Bible, not what you think our Bible should be.

I've just never understood why these books get ignored when its a known fact that they were removed by men of the cloth for their own selfish reasons and not for the glory of God!!

Originally posted by jakyll
I've just never understood why these books get ignored when its a known fact that they were removed by men of the cloth for their own selfish reasons and not for the glory of God!!

I don't know what to tell you...that's your personal belief which will require your personal resolution or dismissal. We don't share that theory so I'm afraid you are on your own here.

Edit:

I am glad to see though that you are concerned about the glory of God.

[edit on 11/10/2007 by kinglizard]

[edit on 10-11-2007 by jakyll]

reply to post by kinglizard

Jesus knew that conflict and disagreement would come between those that chose to follow him and those that reject him. Heck you don't need to be divinely inspired to realize that....hence the sword. Though I know that is a favorite verse anti-Christians like to use against Christians so you haven't disappointed.

Well,I aim to please

It does show that Jesus could be a hard man,that everything he said wasn't always loving.And yes,what you have said is the typical interpretation,but does that mean it is true?

He says he came to bring a sword not peace,now that to me seems strange.It makes more sence to say that he came to bring peace but his teachings would divide people.To bring a sword implies that he is to bring violence,the rightous kind no doubt.


Oh,and i'm not anti-Christian,i'm not against any faith.I just question all that seems wrong,absurd and out-dated to me

Originally posted by jakyll
It does show that Jesus could be a hard man,that everything he said wasn't always loving.

He spoke God's truth no matter your interpretation. I would say he was spot on...to this day spot on unfortunately.

reply to post by kinglizard

I am glad to see though that you are concerned about the glory of God.

I believe in spirituality,philosphy and the duality of all things.
I don't believe in the religions that exists in our world today.
They are manipulated far too easily,they are used as weapons,they divide rather than unite and they exclude people rather than welcoming all.

this thread reminds me of an article. the source is of course less than stellar, but i'll give you a sample because it's funny, in a way...

Sex in God's Words

ne of the reasons why the general public is not outraged about the sexual content in the Bible is that many modern readers don't understand the 17th century Old English which the King James version of the Bible was translated into. The more modern translations also tend to water-down these passages which are less than pleasing and alter the original intent of the authors of the Bible. For example, Ezekiel 23:20 speaks of a whore who lusts after men who have penises as big as donkeys and who ejaculate as much as horses. The original King James translation says it this way: "whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses."

that's one of the reasons why earnest radicals strive to make their followers learn their holy scriptures by heart without them even knowing the language they are written in. (think Q'ran 'schools')

Originally posted by jakyll
I don't believe in the religions that exists in our world today.

Just follow God and his direction in the Bible and you won't need to worry about some of the flawed groups. I would suggest if your church is preaching or acting in a way that is not Bible based your church is not...well...bible based, and therefor not of God.


[edit on 11/10/2007 by kinglizard]