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The Muratorian fragment is a copy of perhaps the oldest known list of the books of the New Testament. The fragment lacks its beginning and ending, and is a 7th century Latin manuscript, which internal cues identify as a translation from a Greek original of about 170. The fragment listed all the works that were accepted as canonical by the churches known to its anonymous compiler.
Originally posted by d60944
I got one of them too..... ironic given that the idea of people quoting other people over and over touches on what we're discussing :-)
Originally posted by d60944
Too tired for more tonight: maybe tomorrow. Hope I don't wake up to the worst soggy news from Eastern England.
Originally posted by icybreeze
Originally posted by scientist
other than the 10 commandments... hence the need for all these religions.
fine, using the ten cmmandments lets see how many the Catholic church disobeys...
#2 thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image (all you got to do is look inside a Catholic church and see all those saints they pray to)
ok they blatantly disobey one..not too bad...
Originally posted by FlyersFan
Until then ... go read the Catechism and learn what the Catholic church really teaches ... and go read the MANY MANY threads dowm om BTS that already address each and every alleged 'point' made in the opening post.
Originally posted by TheHypnoToad
I also meant to add that these statues and paintings and whatever else are not, and were never meant to be "graven images." They have been used in religious instruction, and as spiritual aids. To consider them in any way a violation of a Commandment is ridiculous. That would be like saying that it is a sin to possess any photographs or paintings of a deceased relative.
Originally posted by EricD
And what exactly was it that you thought you showed in your post about the Diet of Worms?
Deu 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
Deu 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
Lev 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.
Lev 20:6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.
Lev 20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.
Isa 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
Isa 19:3 And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards.
Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by TheHypnoToad
There would be no problem with asking Mary to pray for you if she were alive to ask in person. The problem comes from the fact that you are praying for a dead person to intercede to God for you, this is a no-no on several levels that are clearly defined in the Bible. At best its Necromancy, at worst it’s worshiping a false God, either way your letting a lesser person do the job that Christ said to allow him to do. Why would you go to a source outside of Christ when you have that option available to you, do you have a problem with trusting him to do the job?
Originally posted by xHADEEZx
I always thought if i was someone who truley believed in god i would never ask for money to spread his word i would do it just because its the right thing to do. CHURCH is a fraud and a rip off.
... If souls please thee, be they loved in God: ... but in Him are they firmly rooted; else they would leave, and pass away. In Him then may they be loved; and carry to Him along with you what souls you can, and say to them, "Him let us love, Him let us love: He made these, nor is He far off. For He did not make them, and so depart, but they are of Him, and in Him. See there He is, where truth is loved. He is within the very heart, yet has the heart strayed from Him... The good that you love is from Him; but it is good and pleasant through reference to Him...
Joh 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
Joh 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
Joh 16:25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.
Joh 16:26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
Joh 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.