If God Created Us! Who Created God?

it's very simple really. God created himself. he used the creation energy to make himself real, in our time and space. he had always existed outside of our universe, so all he had to do was WANT to be created.

Originally posted by jedimiller
it's very simple really. God created himself. he used the creation energy to make himself real, in our time and space. he had always existed outside of our universe, so all he had to do was WANT to be created.

I hear that Santa Clause did the same thing. (sarcasm, no pun intended) Now can you prove what you just said or is it merely a speculatory hypothesis defending a deep rooted religious belief?

How can a thought of a "want" occur, if there is nothing existing to think it?

Can you prove that there is an "outside" of our "universe"?

[edit on 6-11-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

I hear that Santa Clause did the same thing. Now can you prove what you just said or is it merely a speculatory hypothesis defending a deep rooted religious belief?

As I've pointed out. I can't prove it one way or another. So yes, it's based on a belief..but not a religious belief at all. just a gut feeling. is that so wrong?

reply to post by jedimiller


Nothing is ever right and wrong, but yes, study that gut feeling and see where it leads you. Why be sufficed at the nudging of a gut feeling when there could be so much more to it? Investigate yourself.

We all have beliefs, our beliefs are somewhat conglomerates of our imaginations. Everything our imagination can muster up is true, the beautiful thing is taking that imagination and making it inextirpable through facts.

[edit on 6-11-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by jedimiller
it's very simple really. God created himself. he used the creation energy to make himself real, in our time and space. he had always existed outside of our universe, so all he had to do was WANT to be created.

Your statement does sound logical to me (probably to no one else who looks into this subject). God is supposed to (and I think, 'is') this consciousness that is outside of space/time and created the universe to expression itself/himself in 3-dimensional (and more dimensions) or reality and have companions that hae free will and evolve from their own decisions and mistakes (us and every other living organism).

Originally posted by sostyles
This question has always stayed with me since i asked my Religious Studies teacher years ago. Back then he didnt have an answer for me he just said hes God he doesnt need a creator.....????

This just made me more inquisitive and quite mad that a man who should of known this as it is his beliefs but didnt know or even question this himself!

So how about the good People here at ATS any Ideas?

Thanks
Sostyles

If somebody comes along and proves the butterfly effect, the numbers fit, and history is shown to be a script which has been orchestrated by a higher unknown order.

He will get my vote.

Would he get your vote?

[edit on 8-11-2007 by Full Circle]

Originally posted by sostyles
This question has always stayed with me since i asked my Religious Studies teacher years ago. Back then he didnt have an answer for me he just said hes God he doesnt need a creator.....????

God is the Alpha and the Omega. There is no beginning and there is no end.

God is everything. Plain and simple.

To put it another way:

"God is everything and 'nothing' doesn't exist."

Take that and run with it, it will lead you to the answer as only you can explain it to yourself.

Religions aside, I look at energy as the true movement of the universe. All of us create it being just breathing or operating your car. We are the gears of the universe on a plain we cannot see. Just like our Ora we cant see it but its there somehow.

God, the creator is always been always will be. Can it be a force we cannot explain o yes it is. I doubt even alien being have figured this out yet. But I'm sure as we dive into DNA and other things we may get close but will truly never know.

At least in our tiny lifetime. I want to be recycled in a blackhole but not as a rock but as another free thinking being.

The humans do rock! On this rock

Whichever way you look at it, and whatever your belief system is, God, Horus, or whatever...the answer is the same. Someone created everything so who created the creator? I believe it's not for us to know how the creator came to be. I think it must be one of those things we are unable to understand and won't until death. It's one of the unanswered questions of mankind.

Science has come a long way peering into the first small particles of the universe...but until we know who created those particles, the question will remain.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


I hear that Santa Clause did the same thing. (sarcasm, no pun intended)

Your question was not about Santa Clause and I fail to see the pun but why you would mention you didn't intend one was apparent

Now can you prove what you just said or is it merely a speculatory hypothesis defending a deep rooted religious belief?

I am certain of it but not without establishing some protocols for that kind of discussion,, what you are asking, I sense you are disingenuous, perhaps even sarcastic or cynical. If not then finding out a terminology we can agree to and a definition of "proof" .

How can a thought of a "want" occur, if there is nothing existing to think it?

You would have to show me where he said nothing existed to think it. before he could answer to a statement he never made

Can you prove that there is an "outside" of our "universe"?

Steven Hawking's back in 1998.

Einstein wrote, ‘The scientist is possessed by the sense of universal causation.’ Do you believe science can prove everything can be explained by naturalistic methods independent of any need of a God or, supernatural being”? The discovery that the universe had a beginning under conditions in which the known laws of physics are absent, compels us to force a model for theory under circumstances we cannot observe with any certainty. If the universe is expanding then conventional wisdom suggest that it has a "starting point and an outer edge. I would conclude that what is beyond that would naturally be what is "outside" its edge or more specifically,, what is outside the universe.


- Con


[edit on 10-2-2008 by Conspiriology]

I may get flamed for this but here is my opinion....



But I don't believe in god because I think there is more the what the story is told.

When we were little what do they teach us if we don't believe in god were going to go to hell and they scared us to believe one way and one way only. And they make us believe because we as children are scared of this so called "hell". Which religious people are closed minded about everything. They believe god created but if you look something had to of created god and so on.

Let me sum it up. They only teach us a small pixel of the picture. I believe there is more to the story then what they tell us. Meaning there is more to the picture then what we see.

I mean could the bible of been made up by a group of people. Yes it was very possible for it to of been made up and easily written as a huge story of the times. Also they say cursing is a sin...but did this so called "god" define the words....no? I think there is more then what we are taught and know.



There are planets older then the earth meaning....something created the earth at a different time.


We have to be opened minded and challenge the system to figure out the puzzle. People are like a rubix cube. We have one color and one side already completed and stick with it but all the other colors and sides are out of order. So we have to branch out and solve the other puzzles.

[edit on 11-2-2008 by xweaponx]

[edit on 11-2-2008 by xweaponx]

Originally posted by sostyles
This question has always stayed with me since i asked my Religious Studies teacher years ago. Back then he didnt have an answer for me he just said hes God he doesnt need a creator.....????

This just made me more inquisitive and quite mad that a man who should of known this as it is his beliefs but didnt know or even question this himself!

So how about the good People here at ATS any Ideas?

Thanks
Sostyles

According to logic, everything CREATED must have a CREATOR; however, it is not logically consistent to say that EVERYTHING must have been created.

The bible even says so, in one of the most poetic lines (IMHO) in the bible.

John 1 (King James Version)


1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Those verses say (at least) the following things:

1) Jesus was with God, and Jesus WAS God.
2) Every single thing that was made, was made by Jesus.
3) Jesus, as God, dwelt in human flesh.

You are stuck thinking that every single thing that exists anywhere must have been created. There are 3 things that were not created: God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

Originally posted by Conspiriology
I am certain of it but not without establishing some protocols for that kind of discussion, what you are asking, I sense you are disingenuous, perhaps even sarcastic or cynical. If not then finding out a terminology we can agree to and a definition of "proof".

Is there anything wrong with sarcasm and cynicism when proof has no definition and that's its only axiom? Does God as contrast to Satan exist? No. Can I prove an eternal consciousness that resides with us all and everything else? Yes... does it have an arch nemesis? No.

You would have to show me where he said nothing existed to think it. before he could answer to a statement he never made.

If he doesn't exist to make a statement he never made, he can't even be called a he in this aspect, therefore your second statement is coherently incoherent and sexually flawed. I can think nothing, and nothing thinks me. If a thing energetically does not exist, it can not function any form of psychological apparatus.

Steven Hawking's back in 1998.

Einstein wrote, ‘The scientist is possessed by the sense of universal causation.’ Do you believe science can prove everything can be explained by naturalistic methods independent of any need of a God or, supernatural being”?

The only way to bring an "end" or "edge" to our universe would be to have absence existing outside of it. Absence does not exist in limited form. Absence is immeasurable. If you put a hole in absence it becomes measurable, thus it is no longer an absence.

Thus, since we know that absence does not exist in limited energetic form it can not act as a barrier to limit the "universe". There is no space of "absence" to seaparate any two things, in fact it is the opposite, it is absence that reveals the ultimate interconnection of everything and the eternity of existence/universe.

Without beginning and without end, that is where we are and what we are.

Hawking, Einstein... a name is just a name, just as all others were before theirs. Hawking is a shame. Einstein I honor, he truly loved Humanity, but even he admits that he got it wrong and resentfully agreed to the big bang theory after being somewhat forced and badgered.

When I play my guitar I don't worry about how much it costs, whose brand name is on it, or what it looks like... I am only concerned with what I can do with it and what it can do with me, and understanding how to play it for what it is as it expresses itself through me and I through it.

Let's put things into perspective.

What is a common experience of man? How many of us have walked up to a building to enter the door and as we PULL, it reads: PUSH?

Now go figure, the same people, trying to answer a comlpex question as, who made God?

[edit on 11-2-2008 by jdposey]

I've asked my dad this question once and a few times to those kids who come to your door and try to convert you; and my dad gave the best answer " God's mom! Duh." then I just said " who made God's Mom then?" and it just kept looping itself but was pretty funny; good thing we're not christians

and then the answer by those converter kids is very similar to a lot of your answers " god was all blah blah always been, no created and blah blah"

I simply answered " Bull#. You just said that # because you don't know; stop believing in imaginary friends, wtf how old are you? I'd rather believe in Santa Claus, At least I know what he looks like and on top of that he's supposed to a great jolly man that gives gift for people who haven't been naughty hmph!"

the kids just looked at me with a "what..." face and I just closed the door and went back to bed.

I may get flamed for this but here is my opinion....



But I don't believe in god because I think there is more the what the story is told.

When we were little what do they teach us if we don't believe in god were going to go to hell and they scared us to believe one way and one way only. And they make us believe because we as children are scared of this so called "hell". Which religious people are closed minded about everything. They believe god created but if you look something had to of created god and so on.



Let me sum it up. They only teach us a small pixel of the picture. I believe there is more to the story then what they tell us. Meaning there is more to the picture then what we see.

I mean could the bible of been made up by a group of people. Yes it was very possible for it to of been made up and easily written as a huge story of the times. Also they say cursing is a sin...but did this so called "god" define the words....no?


I think there is more then what we are taught and know.



There are planets older then the earth meaning....something created the earth at a different time.


We have to be opened minded and challenge the system to figure out the puzzle. People are like a rubix cube. We have one color and one side already completed and stick with it but all the other colors and sides are out of order. So we have to branch out and solve the other puzzles.

There we go fixed version :]

I think Jealous, was just made up over the years back in the days because they had no answers. so they people "in the know" whether it be some sort of priest or something back then,to ease their public back then HAD to come up with something for people to believe in and say "oh, makes sense I guess, yeah I believe in jealous! may jealous bless you all!"

Basically a powerful early use of Mind control.

hence "fight and destroy our enemies! it's jealous's will! Attack!"

and each bit in the book, was written over the years right? most likely passed onto the others that are "in the know" and added bits and pieces very cleverly to add more justification to add for their power.

We see it today still. "reborn christian" wtf? is that all I have to do to get a big jump in votes?

Heck we even got the christian channel. People trying to walk up on stage believing an indian looking man is going to push their foreheads and think they'll be cured of everything.

_____________________________

On top of it all. If there is/was this certain "jealous"
it would be the opposite character. the devil,satan, whatever it goes by...

I think that its flipped, to decieve all the believers, because the devil is evil right? messes with you and your head and all that good stuff. wouldn't it be a surprised to find out that the devil is what many believe to be "jealous"

all the good and all that is just worshipping the bad guy, when you thought you were believing the good guy.

ahh..forget it, wrote too much, and don't know the words to make the 2nd half more understandable to the general online publicl.

Problems with God and Why God must lie outside time.

Time is a part of the physical universe, inseparable from space and matter. Any Designer/Creator must therfore transcend time, as well as space and matter.

That is god Must lie outside time if God is to be the designer and creater of time.

If it is possible that time had a begining (big bang) its also possible it could have an end. Most theologians would Not want God to come into being at the beginning of time and cease to exist if it should come to an end.

And this is were Problems start to arise with 'God'

The difficulty of a timeless designer, however, is in making sense of the concept of design. what does it mean to design something 'timelessly'?
In human experience, a designer is a being who thinks through in advance the consequences of certain choices, and then selects one. But 'thinking' and 'in advance' are inescapably temporal descriptions.

Even if some more abstract notion of 'timeless design' is accepted, a further difficulty arises with the specifics of the designers choice.

Could the designer have choosen a different universe, or chosen not to make a universe at all? .... if the answer is no, then God had no alternative but to create this universe and plays no role at all in the explanation - and so does not merit the title 'designer'.
Nature is reduced to a subset of the divine being rather than a creation of this being. in fact this scenario might as well do away with a designer altogether.

Christians, however, traditionally believe something quite different.

They believe that God created this particular universe as a free act: that is, God was free to not make this universe. but this comes with its own set of difficulties, because we can ask why it was that God chose to make this universe, as opposed to a lifeless one, or one with maximum suffering. If the reply is 'it's unfathomable' then the chain of explanation peters out. If the answer is that the choice was blind then again the element of design is lost, because if the selection was purely whimsical, then the universe is reduced to a divine plaything.

But if the answer is that the decision to make the universe was a profound and considered one which proceeded from God's nature, then one is prompted to ask about the source of this nature. In other words who designed the designer? making God not god/designer/creator after all..

And this is the problem of God , and if God/designer/creator exists why he/she/other MUST lie outside of time ...



thanx to paul davies for exerpts

I don't know if I can truly put in my 2 cents on this conversation, because I don't believe in any one "God". In my opinion, the idea of one immeasurable, omnipotent being that no one can see or comprehend the power of is kind of unfathomable. I really don't know how to go with this.