Israel may approve a divided Jerusalem

Jews, Christians, according to Daniel 9, the City shall be war until the end. Then there is a book called Unholy War by Randall Price, which explains in detail why Al Quds/Jerusalem shall never have peace as long as Islam needs to share with other religions.

The proposed Palestinian State is inclusive of the entire Israel; and even then, the sons of Ishmael shall be at war with the sons of Isaac (Israel/Jews and whoever remains of the old-time Edomites).

Islam is the one religion that unified the Arabian World; and it has even unified a great deal of the rest of the world with it. Islam means "submission": those who refuse to submit to the will of Allah, must die.

The Roman Catholic Business model (that is what it is; a business model, selling "salvation" and "indulgence". Also, the renamed Roman Empire, with the Pope taking the place of the Emperor) was satan's greatest invention, next to the Charismatic movement ("selective Christianity" with some idolatry and wicca and One Nation Earth -ideologies thrown in). Doing more harm to the World than all other religions combined; excepting Islam.

Allah and the God of Judaism and Christianity is NOT one and the same. Allah has no Son, and Islam deny the Holy Ghost's existence completely. The Jews in general, refuse to accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God, but some get discipled; few, however.

Islam must destroy all unbelievers who refuse to convert and submit. Judaism refuses to accept any other gods; true Christians (the few there are (comparatively)) shall refuse to seek unity with Worldly religions which attempt to put their God next to, or even beneath, other gods; and which sets Jesus Christ as anything or anyone, less than the Son of God.

Jerusalem is already divided into four quadrants: Islam, Jew, Christian and the World. Islam has the Temple Mount, where Al Aqsa stands. No land that is under Islam, shall ever be turn to another religion; and the Jews want their Temple Mount, to rebuild their Temple...

Olmert is playing with dual genocide.

reply to post by J.Smit


To be honest, budro? You're Christian, right? You've got far, far less in common with the Jewish faith than any branch of Islam. Why? Because rather than revere YHWH / Allah, you revere a mortal man who died on a stick. Your religion revolves around iconography and idol worship. It glorifies the murder of a pretty smart Jewish rabbi, and claims that at the end times, a few Jews will convert and the rest will suffer eternal fiery torment. Your religion, because it blames the Jews for murdering your dead man on a stick, has a two-thousand year history of antisemitism that the entire religion is founded on. Most Protestant branches go so far as to deny that Jesus and his immediate family were anything other than white north European Christians. By comparison, a small faction of political antisemitism has arisen out of Islamic circles that has a sixty-year history.

I suppose they don't teach this at the Oral Roberts University, though.

edit: Spelling

[edit on 22-10-2007 by The Walking Fox]

Originally posted by The Walking Fox
reply to post by J.Smit

 

To be honest, budro? You're Christian, right? You've got far, far less in common with the Jewish faith than any branch of Islam. Why? Because rather than revere YHWH / Allah, you revere a mortal man who died on a stick. Your religion revolves around iconography and idol worship. It glorifies the murder of a pretty smart Jewish rabbi, and claims that at the end times, a few Jews will convert and the rest will suffer eternal fiery torment. Your religion, because it blames the Jews for murdering your dead man on a stick, has a two-thousand year history of antisemitism that the entire religion is founded on. Most Protestant branches go so far as to deny that Jesus and his immediate family were anything other than white north European Christians. By comparison, a small faction of political antisemitism has arisen out of Islamic circles that has a sixty-year history.

I suppose they don't teach this at the Oral Roberts University, though.

edit: Spelling

[edit on 22-10-2007 by The Walking Fox]

I'm not sure you understand Christianity. The worship of a believer is focused on the 'Sacrifice' made by our Creator for our Salvation. God entered the Timeline he himself Created as a Man in order to demonstrate his Infinite ability to Forgive us. Acceptance is not required. The Offer was.

Israel simply could not accept a Messiah that would not crush all other nations and thereby elevate them. They await that one to this day. They must have simply forgot that God created all men and offered himself for all men, not just them.

As stated, the moon god Allah has no son and offers no forgiveness, unless you SuicideKill for him, that is. Then you get a Harem in Heaven or some such insanity.

I'll take Foregiveness, Thanks!

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar


I just have to step back and laugh about a fellow who in one breath accuses someone of not understanding Christianity, and then in the next starts on about Allah being a moon god.

Oddly even though I've seen plenty of Muslims argue that other people don't understand Islam, I've never seen one follow up by calling Christ the god of vegetable oil (if that confuses you, look up the meaning of "christ")

Let's stalk about forgiveness, however.
Why do you need to be forgiven? Because you have sinned in your life? Why is that? Christianity teaches that every person commits sin. Why is this so? Reading the bible, the root of the sin-filled lives of humanity is traced back to the fall from grace, when Adam and Eve were cast from Eden. The two of them defied the will of god and were punished for it by being cast from paradise into a life of hardship and a world of sin.

This raises some questions.
First, being omniscient, god knew this would happen. He created the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, he created mankind, and then he decreed that mankind must never so much as touch that tree. Yet God already knew mankind would, before he created either. it was a setup.
Given that, and the later claims that God forgives sin, where was his forgiveness for Adam and Eve? Was their crime so heinous that no forgiveness was possible for them? Or their next generation, or the next? So on and so on?

You sin because the god you go to to forgive your sins set it up that way. This god who is loving to all his creation, is, per the Biblical description, only loving to those who buy into this system. Everyone else, he will punish with eternal pain and torment.

First, I said I wasn't sure if you understand Christianity. But I love how you victimize yourself by claiming an 'accusation' , hrrumphh.. How dare I? But go on and be offended, I know you will be anyway.

www.biblebelievers.org.au...

The questions you pose are good ones about original sin. Questions I wrestled with myself and any thinking person should. The dynamic that gets missed in the initial questions I believe is Free Will. When one has a Choice, there must be consequences. We see this demonstrated in everyday life. God will not force you into his presence. He will allow you to walk away. The place known as Hell is simply His absence. What is our purpose if we are eternally separated from the One who Created Us?

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar


I'm not offended - laughter implies amusement, usually. You'd have to go a long way to reach something that actually offends me. Like I said, I'm just laughing at such comments coming from a person who purports to follow a guy who tells you to worry about the beam in your own eye before the mote in your brother's.

No, free will is accounted for in my questions. God did not make Adam and Eve eat the fruit. Being an omniscient being, he knew, ahead of time, what course the pair would choose. If the theology is to believed, he knew this before the creation of anything. Yet he still provided the situation for it to happen.

If we want to mix in the serpent's involvement, things look even force for this god. Again if we believe theology, the serpent that told Eve to eat is Satan in disguise. Satan, unlike mankind, is - well, was - an angel. As such, Satan has no free will, that being a gift exclusive to mankind, denied to the heavenly host. Even his opposition to God and mankind is ordained and guided by God. In other words, if the serpent in the garden is Satan, then God specifically instructed him to tempt Eve.

As for the nature of hell, you are speaking of the Jewish concept of hell. As a Christian, you take the New Testament as part of your faith. It contains a few juicy descriptions of Hell, particularly in Revelations.

Now regarding Allah being a moon god... You're in the neighborhood, but at the completely wrong house. Arabia had many "allahs," just as Greece had numerous "theos," just as Denmark had many "gotts," and just like Canaan had many "ba'als." Tell me, when Paul write to the Greeks and used the word "theos" did he mean the Hellenic gods? Zeus, Ares, Apollo perhaps? When you say "god" do you mean Freyr or Wotan? When you say "christ" are you talking about Dionysus?

I'm sure there was a moon-allah. There were also rover, sea, and fertility allahs. This is because "allah" in arabic is not a proper noun. It means the exact same thing as "god" in English, "theos" in Greek, "daia" in Irish Gaelic, etc.

However, the allah found in the Koran is the same allah of the Torah. Just as Jews use "g-d" instead of "Yahweh" so too did Muhammad use "allah" instead of, well, "Yahweh" when teaching Islam. In both religions God is distant from man, and his name is not for mortal mouths or ears. An objective view of Islamic history shows pretty clearly that Muhammad was, in fact, a convert to Judaism. A reformist with political aspirations, but still a convert.

reply to post by The Walking Fox

In both religions God is distant from man, and his name is not for mortal mouths or ears.

That is the crux of the matter for me. As you know, in Christianity, God claims intimate contact with each believer through his spirit.

While Jesus fulfilled something like 300 prophecies from the Old Testament, I don't see Muhammeds claim as anything but that, a claim. No different than the claims of Joseph Smith or any other johnny-come-lately trying to twist something to their own benefit.

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar
That is the crux of the matter for me. As you know, in Christianity, God claims intimate contact with each believer through his spirit.

And thus why Christians have spent the last two thousand years killing each other; every given Christian is convinced that only the voices in his head are actually god, and everyone else is a subversive heretic. You're not necessarily insane, but... Let's just say you make Hindus look organized by comparison.

While Jesus fulfilled something like 300 prophecies from the Old Testament, I don't see Muhammeds claim as anything but that, a claim. No different than the claims of Joseph Smith or any other johnny-come-lately trying to twist something to their own benefit.

Such as the claims in Matthew 1:12 that Jesus is the descendant of Jeconiah, even though god cursed Jeconiah to be killed, along with his entire family, and ensure that he will have no offspring?

Oh, I know, the prophecy in Isaiah 7:14 that speaks of a virgin giving birth to a savior... except the "virgin" part was actually a deliberate mistranslation of the Hebrew word "almah," meaning "young woman"... and that the said woman is alive at the time of the prophecy, the savior's name is Immanuel, and he does his thing and presumably dies at some later point.

How about the prophecy of Zechariah 9:9? Matthew and John both claim Jesus fulfills this one... But that prophecy speaks of a military leader who conquers from sea to sea.

How about the prophecy "he shall be called a Nazarene" spoken of in Matthew 2:23? This one does not exist in any version of the Old testament.

Jesus also visits Tyre... Which according to Ezekiel, should not even be existing. Thank goodness he never went to Damascus, that would have really cheesed off Isaiah.

Jesus prophecies that the world will end before his disciples' lives are through. Unless Mark or one of those guys is still hiding out somewhere, that was a dud.

Jesus also prophecies that the high priest will forsee his second coming. Doesn't happen.

he further claims his death is prophecied in the Old testament. Unless he's talking about God's warning to Adam that there will be death if he eats from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, no such prophecy exists in the Old Testament.

Jesus also prophecies that there will be "one fold, and one shepherd" - Yeah? He could have left us a note about which one it was gonna be, I need to know if I should re-convert to Methodism or perhaps look into Calvinism or maybe seventh-Day Adventist or maybe that nice Jehova's witness... I guess I could just handle snakes with the Baptists until I figure it out, maybe I'll call my Catholic uncle and his Nazarene friend Bob?

The terribly funny thing is, Ear... Biblical prophecy points to Muhammed far more strongly than it does to Jesus.

Jesus also prophecies that there will be "one fold, and one shepherd" - Yeah? He could have left us a note about which one it was gonna be, I need to know if I should re-convert to Methodism or perhaps look into Calvinism or maybe seventh-Day Adventist or maybe that nice Jehova's witness... I guess I could just handle snakes with the Baptists until I figure it out, maybe I'll call my Catholic uncle and his Nazarene friend Bob?

I think it's pretty clear actually. Unless one 'wants' to cloud the issue. If a church preachs Christ Crucified for the Redemption of Sins and everything else second, then I think they are in the same fold. Some on your list would qualify. But I see that maybe family issues have something to do with your skewed view in this area.

As to your hair splitting on prophecy, the answers to all the 'problems' you found can just as easily be found with another google search. Here's a few more to consider. bibleprobe.com...

So, I'm curious, are you a Muslim then? If you're not ashamed of your beliefs, I'm interested to know.

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar


There are some vast gulfs between the various Christian sects in what they teach and how they practice. Saying that their one commonality makes them the same is like saying all the world's monotheist religions are the same. Take for instance the differences between Catholicism and the nine million types of Protestant. Catholicism believes you must do good acts in order to stay in god's good graces. Most Protestant beliefs loudly disagree, claiming that simply believing is good enough. Others disagree with that, believing that Jesus has already chosen who will be saved and nothing anyone does will change that. Back in the early days of Christianity it competed with Roman Isis cults. There were Isis cults that revered Isis as a European-style fertility goddess. There were Isis cults that revered her as a goddess of magic and prophecy. There were groups that worshiped her through her sun Horus. They were all worshiping Isis, but they were all different paths.

Ah yes, I found this list, I was hoping you were bringing up something more substantial. Prophecies such as "Eve will have kids" aren't especially prophetic. Have you gone back and checked these? 'Cause the Genesis 9:26 one that claims "The God of Shem will be the Son of Shem"? The passages say nothing of the sort. Plus a lot of these are taken out of context. For instance, "Deuteronomy 21:23...Cursed is he that hangs on a tree..." The passage is about, well, hanging someone. With a noose. Such a person is cursed by god because he has committed sin worthy of death. Now I admit I didn't pay a LOT of attention in Sunday school, but wasn't Jesus supposed to be sin-free? And while the passage speaks of burying such a person and not disturbing the grave, Jesus was not buried and was disturbed.

I'm really not going to go over all 365 of these. I'm sure that if you look them up you'll find that a lot of what that page claims as prophecy is no more prophecy than stuff from John Titor.

No, I'm not Muslim. I'm quite interested in the religion from a scholastic point of view, however, especially since I see so many people spouting off about it, most of whom are quite clueless, as it turns out. My own beliefs are pantheist and animist- I know Yahweh exists. I know Brahmin and Agni exist. I know Wakanyan Tanka is around. Thing is, they are not my gods, so I do not worship them.

And that is your absolute Right! As per Free Will, you are allowed to Believe what you will. I find it interesting that you seemed to defend Islam even though you don't believe it yourself. Or maybe you weren't so much defending it, as much as attacking Christ. Anyway, thanks for the conversation and have a good day!

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar


No worries. I tend to defend Christianity against my loony Pagan buddies who all think "the burning times" happened as described in their favorite Morgan Llwellyn books It's a thing I have. I figure that if someone is going to talk about someone else's religion, they better know what they're talking about.

I don't badmouth Jesus - just as I don't badmouth Gandhi. However, I have no reason to believe him divine, or even as that successful of a prophet. I badmouth the hell out of Christianity because it is so terribly unlike the Christ it names itself after. Perhaps if it weren't the dominant religion in America, or maybe even if it's followers would just stop to think... But most of them take where they are for granted and tend to be the dumbest sons of bitches this side of a bookstore Wiccan.

While we differ on Christ's Divinity, I will agree that organized religion in his name has a bad name. After the way he scolded the Pharisee's for their behavior you'd think the Church would know better. I see it as Man's Sinful Nature bubbling to the surface, despite the simple nature of Forgiveness. I often skip Church 'cause I don't wanna deal with the drama.
But, that's People everywhere you go. Peace