Is Satan really as bad as everyone makes him out to be?

i think that is full speculation on your part no one believes bewolf to be true yet it is an old story

Those who were not into satanism, stay out and away. Anyone who was in there, got out and is alive (satan demands any "oath breakers" to be killed as soon as possible; it knows they shall go into the world and warn others against it), can confirm that satan is into blood; death; pain; ignorance of Life; and super powers granted in exchange for slayings and sacrifice. Those who recon it is actually a nice guy and God is the baddie/evil/ignorance: you honestly have no idea what this topic entails at all.

May God protect His flock from evil and sin.

Originally posted by J.Smit
can confirm that satan is into blood; death; pain; ignorance of Life; and super powers granted in exchange for slayings and sacrifice.

This claim and argument could be argued the same for organized religions too.

Should I give a few thousand examples? No, historic text's and the current events already do this well.

[edit on 13-10-2007 by Realtruth]

Originally posted by Realtruth

Originally posted by J.Smit
can confirm that satan is into blood; death; pain; ignorance of Life; and super powers granted in exchange for slayings and sacrifice.

This claim and argument could be argued the same for organized religions too.

Should I give a few thousand examples? No, historic text's and the current events already do this well.

[edit on 13-10-2007 by Realtruth]

It would be more profitable for your soul to find the few thousand arguments for the good rather than the bad. If organized religion isn't your cup of tea, and I can understand that, then spend time learning about Christ and leave the traditions of men behind. We don't have forever to come to terms with His truth.shk:


............Whirlwind:

Originally posted by whirlwind

It would be more profitable for your soul to find the few thousand arguments for the good rather than the bad. If organized religion isn't your cup of tea, and I can understand that, then spend time learning about Christ and leave the traditions of men behind. We don't have forever to come to terms with His truth.shk:


............Whirlwind:

My claim has nothing to do with my soul and your perception that my claims are bad.

I was pointing out how religions are responsible for many evil doings, while they point fingers at others, then make claims that people that do not conform to their beliefs are sinners, evil, not saved, etc. when all of the claims they make stem from their religion alone.

Sometimes when people make judgments they are so blinded they don't see the hypocrisies of their own actions and doings.

Whatever road people choose they need to not be blinded by their own actions and see the purpose and goodness in all things.



[edit on 13-10-2007 by Realtruth]

Originally posted by Realtruth

Originally posted by whirlwind

It would be more profitable for your soul to find the few thousand arguments for the good rather than the bad. If organized religion isn't your cup of tea, and I can understand that, then spend time learning about Christ and leave the traditions of men behind. We don't have forever to come to terms with His truth.shk:


............Whirlwind:

My claim has nothing to do with my soul and your perception that my claims are bad.

I was pointing out how religions are responsible for many evil doings, while they point fingers at others, then make claims that people that do not conform to their beliefs are sinners, evil, not saved, etc. when all of the claims they make stem from their religion alone.

Sometimes when people make judgments they are so blinded they don't see the hypocrisies of their own actions and doings.

Whatever road people choose they need to not be blinded by their own actions and see the purpose and goodness in all things.



[edit on 13-10-2007 by Realtruth]

Forgive me for being blinded to your post and thank you for the correction. I see what you were saying now and agree with it.

Yes, "religions" are responsible for many evil things. I'm afraid I was reading through various threads and seeing so many negative comments about God that I didn't read yours thoroughly.

I'm sorry I jumped to a conclusion - a wrong conclusion. We are fighting the same fight and I will be more careful in the future.stfu:


...........Whirlwind:

reply to post by whirlwind


An additional note.........I give up on the cute little icons. I can't seem to make them come to life on my replies. They just stay in their written form. Oh well, once a computer illiterate, always one.


.........Whirlwind

I wasnt ready to post Dam you computer.... save NOT post

[edit on 14-10-2007 by N.B.A.Y.S.O.H]

Originally posted by J.Smit
Those who recon it is actually a nice guy and God is the baddie/evil/ignorance: you honestly have no idea what this topic entails at all.

Then please explain why for thousands of years, snakes and serpents were revered as sacred, and a symbol of knowledge (likely symbolising the helix shape of DNA, as well as being a symbol for many other spiritual truths), while the bible promotes serpents and the tree of life as evil, and "out of bounds".

There is absolutely nothing that has ever demonstrated to me that the biblical god is the source of all that is good, sacred, and enlightened. All I see is war, fear, oppression, supression, paedophile priests, and a flock of sheep more interested in their careers and favourite "celebs" than they are in attaining any real knowledge about the nature of existence. Lucifer is a far better candidate for knowledge. This is the greatest deception ever constructed: the biblical God most people worship is a tyrant masquerading as the loving father of all. This is quite a Gnostic view, but to me it makes sense and explains why there is so much ignorance and suffering in the world. Nature is the true god, nature is insight, and for me, Lucifer is a demonified, personified symbol of the nature most people are scared to connect with.

reply to post by Cythraul

Then please explain why for thousands of years, snakes and serpents were revered as sacred, and a symbol of knowledge (likely symbolising the helix shape of DNA, as well as being a symbol for many other spiritual truths), while the bible promotes serpents and the tree of life as evil, and "out of bounds".

Who was promoting the serpents as sacred? False religions, pagan worship, mythology?

There is absolutely nothing that has ever demonstrated to me that the biblical god is the source of all that is good, sacred, and enlightened. All I see is war, fear, oppression, supression, paedophile priests, and a flock of sheep more interested in their careers and favourite "celebs" than they are in attaining any real knowledge about the nature of existence. Lucifer is a far better candidate for knowledge. This is the greatest deception ever constructed: the biblical God most people worship is a tyrant masquerading as the loving father of all. This is quite a Gnostic view, but to me it makes sense and explains why there is so much ignorance and suffering in the world. Nature is the true god, nature is insight, and for me, Lucifer is a demonified, personified symbol of the nature most people are scared to connect with.

God created the nature you love.

When you see war, oppression and paedophile priests you must realize we are in a spiritual battle. Do you believe those priests follow God? Do you believe those that oppress others follow God?

War is a different story. There are reasons for war, no matter how difficult they are (not all wars but some.)

I don't think anyone is afraid to connect with nature as it just personifies the One that created it.


.....Whirlwind

Originally posted by whirlwind
Who was promoting the serpents as sacred? False religions, pagan worship, mythology?

You prove my point eloquently. You are a Christian who is still convinced that any ancient cultures who worshipped serpents must have been based on false spirituality or misguided mythology. Pagan worship existed for many thousands of years longer than Christianity, so we have no reason to belittle it anymore than we do the current dominant religions of the world.

Serpent worship was a staple element in all of the South American religions, and among the Ancient Egyptians, the Babylonians, Sumerians, Akkadians. Evidence suggests that the ancient people of Cambodia built temples to the constellation of Draco (the dragon, another manifestation of the sacred serpent). To this day, snakes and dragons are a central aspect of Japanese and Chinese art, celebration and culture. Australian Aborigones, North American Indians, and the ancient Celtic Druids all also held the snake as a symbol of spirituality, vitality, and knowledge. Need I go on?

Do you mean to tell me that every single one of these cultures, some lasting tens of thousands of years in one form or other, were false, ignorant or misguided, compared to the two thousand years that a single crusading religion called Christianity has labelled serpent worship as evil? Tell me, has planet earth been a happier place during the last 2000 years?

Originally posted by whirlwind
When you see war, oppression and paedophile priests you must realize we are in a spiritual battle. Do you believe those priests follow God? Do you believe those that oppress others follow God?

Yes I do believe that Priests follow God. Why wouldn't I? They are, after all, the face of Christianity. If God is so omnipresent and omnipotent, surely the least he can do is ensure that his religion is represented by his followers. I'd like to think so, because if he can't even prevent his name being tarnished by evil, what chance does he have of saving the rest of us from Satan?

I hope none of this seemed offensive to you personally because I'm not trying to insult you. These are simply my views on the biblical God. As a side-note, I'd like to suggest that God can be used as a term for anyone's god. For example, if I were a Satanist and believed that Satan was the true benevolent god of this world, I would simply call him "God" in day to day use. In the same way, just because I do not worship the Judeo-Christian God, that does not mean that I do not believe in an alternative "God" who is the creator of this cosmos. So when you say that God created the nature I love, I can whole-heartedly agree that some kind of god did in fact do so.

Concerning the nature of the serpent in the garden:

• Genesis 3:1
  Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, has God said, You shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
  
  
• Job 5:12
  He disappoints the devices of the crafty, so that their hands cannot perform their enterprise.
  
  
• Job 15:5
  For thy mouth utters your iniquity, and you choose the tongue of the crafty.
  
  
• Proverbs 12:16
  A fool's wrath is presently known: but a prudent man covers shame.
  
  
• Proverbs 12:23
  A prudent man conceals knowledge: but the heart of fools proclaims foolishness.
  
  
• Proverbs 13:16
  Every prudent man deals with knowledge: but a fool lays open his folly.
  
  
• Proverbs 14:8
  The wisdom of the prudent is to understand his way: but the folly of fools is deceit.
  
  
• Proverbs 14:15
  The simple believes every word: but the prudent man looks well to his going.
  
  
• Proverbs 14:18
  The simple inherit folly: but the prudent are crowned with knowledge.
  
  
• Proverbs 22:3
  A prudent man foresees the evil, and hides himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.
  
  
• Proverbs 27:12
  A prudent man foresees the evil, and hides himself; but the simple pass on, and are punished.

The bold word in each verse is the same word: arum.

Strong's # H6175:
1) subtle, shrewd, crafty, sly, sensible
1a) crafty
1b) shrewd, sensible, prudent
(passive participle of H6191)

H6191:
A primitive root; properly to be (or make) bare; to be prudent.

Translated as:
subtil (1 x)
crafty (2 x)
prudent (8 x)

As the snake was lifted up by Moses in the waste land, even so it is necessary for the Son of man to be lifted up: So that whoever has faith may have in him eternal life.
~John 3:14-15

See, I send you out as sheep among wolves. Be then as wise as snakes, and as gentle as doves. But be on the watch against men: for they will give you up to the Sanhedrins, and in their Synagogues they will give you blows;
~Matthew 10:16-17

Jesus compares himself to a serpent!!!
Jesus tells his disciples to be as wise as snakes!!!

It isn't the bible that portrays the snake as evil - it is men and religion and theology - in the bible, sometimes the serpent is wise and at other times is dangerous poison.

Just like knowledge.

Would Christians still love Jesus if it turned out that HE were the snake, in the garden, with Adam & Eve?
Or would they turn their eyes away in condemnation???!??!?

reply to post by queenannie38

Concerning the nature of the serpent in the garden:


Genesis 3:1
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, has God said, You shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

The bold word in each verse is the same word: arum.

Strong's # H6175:
1) subtle, shrewd, crafty, sly, sensible
1a) crafty
1b) shrewd, sensible, prudent
(passive participle of H6191)

God warned them to stay away from Satan, the serpent, the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Why? Would it be because he was so sensible and prudent or.......because he was so crafty and deceitful?

As the snake was lifted up by Moses in the waste land, even so it is necessary for the Son of man to be lifted up: So that whoever has faith may have in him eternal life.
~John 3:14-15

The scripture was quoted from Numbers 21. In it the people Moses brought out of Egypt grumbled and complained and "spake against God and against Moses." What did God do.......

21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the People, and they bit the People; and much people of Israel died.

7.Therefore the People came to Moses, and said, "We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that He take away the serpents from us." And Moses prayed for the People.

8.And the LORD said unto Moses, "Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live,"

9.And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.


Today, that image of a serpent twined on a pole is used in the medical profession. However, what the scriptures represent is that in end times the bites we receive from serpents, those representing Satan, won't matter for we will be immune to their lies and deceit. If and when bitten we have the Word of Christ as our protection.


Luke 10:18 And He said unto them, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

19.Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

See, I send you out as sheep among wolves. Be then as wise as snakes, and as gentle as doves. But be on the watch against men: for they will give you up to the Sanhedrins, and in their Synagogues they will give you blows;
~Matthew 10:16-17


Jesus compares himself to a serpent!!!
Jesus tells his disciples to be as wise as snakes!!!

He does NOT compare Himself to a serpent!!! NOWHERE is that written. He is telling his disciples to be smarter than their enemy is....be wiser than the serpent. He knows that the serpent knows scripture better than anyone else and the disciples of Christ better be ready for it.

It isn't the bible that portrays the snake as evil - it is men and religion and theology - in the bible, sometimes the serpent is wise and at other times is dangerous poison. ...Just like knowledge.

The Bible does portray the serpent as evil. He is evil.


Revelation 20:9. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Would Christians still love Jesus if it turned out that HE were the snake, in the garden, with Adam & Eve?
Or would they turn their eyes away in condemnation???!??!?

You believe Christ was the serpent in the garden?


.........Whirlwind

Hi Whirlwind.

What form was the serpent in Genesis? Like a snake of today?


Revelation 20:9. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Ok.

And God didnt curse the 'serpent' to 'go on its belly' for the rest of its days, until after the apple scene.. so what form was he in before this? was it a reptillian being?

Thanks.

Originally posted by whirlwind
God warned them to stay away from Satan, the serpent, the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

WHERE does it say that GOD warned Adam and Eve to stay away from the serpent?

No where. Because he didn't.

GOD only gave ONE warning: he told Adam not to eat from that tree.

But GOD did NOT warn Eve, just Adam.
Yet when Eve ate, so did Adam.

In Genesis 2:16, GOD tells Adam the tree is off-limits and death is the consequence of EATING from it.

Then, in chapter 3, we find Eve telling the serpent that GOD said that if they either eat it or touch it, they will die.

BUT...when did GOD tell Eve this? It's not in there!
Adam must have been the one who told Eve of GOD's injunction.
But he added something to it - the extra warning that touching the fruit also would bring death.

But GOD told Adam only not to EAT the fruit.
And GOD told Adam this while Adam was still alone - and it does not say that GOD told Adam to tell Eve.

And right after GOD gives Adam the 'from dust you came and back to dust you will go' death sentence, it says that Adam named his wife Eve because she is the mother of ALL living.

A dead mother doesn't give birth to the living.

Obviously the tree's death sentence applied to Adam and Adam ONLY.
GOD doesn't tell Eve that she will return to dust, as he tells Adam - her consequences are of a different nature than Adam's. As are those earned by the serpent.

BUT there is absolutely no proof that the snake lied in the garden...he spoke only to Eve and he told her that she would not die from eating or touching the fruit.

And sure, enough, she did not! Neither did GOD tell her that she would die, after he found out what they all had done.

But because she ate, Adam ate, and so Adam died.

BUT who told the lie?

ADAM!

Adam told Eve that even just touching the fruit would make her die! But she did not die!

GOD did NOT say that to Adam OR Eve - Adam made that up, all on his own.

....and just because Eve BLAMED the serpent for beguiling her does not mean that it actually happened that way - false accusations of that sort are as old as dirt...

...and the information given in Genesis does not even imply such a thing taking place. All it says is that Eve SAID that the serpent beguiled her...perhaps she was lying, too? - to herself more than anyone else, out of remorse for what had taken place and her part in it...

...but still, a lie IS a lie.

So Adam pointed his finger at Eve and Eve pointed her finger at the serpent.

Definitely GOD wasn't happy with the serpent; however, he didn't say, or even hint, that the serpent deceived or seduced anyone..he just says:
'because you've done this.'

Done what?
Revealed a secret?
Laid something bare that was to remain hidden?



He WAS the MOST subtil, after all - wise in making things bare...and yet both prudent AND crafty...

The Bible does portray the serpent as evil. He is evil.

The serpent is either an animal, a creature, a beast...
...or else is a seraph - a flaming, serpent-like angel.

What is evil?

That which comes out of the heart of man:

FEAR
GREED
DECEIT
SELFISHNESS

According to the stories, one deity wanted to keep humans ignorant and another supernatural being wanted to give humans knowledge. I know which one I look down on more.

Does God disapprove of Denying Ignorance? Passages in Genesis seem to suggest so.

Originally posted by Sekhemet
Hi Whirlwind.

What form was the serpent in Genesis? Like a snake of today?


Revelation 20:9. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Ok.

And God didnt curse the 'serpent' to 'go on its belly' for the rest of its days, until after the apple scene.. so what form was he in before this? was it a reptillian being?

Thanks.

Hello Sekhemet,

The "serpent" is an angel, The king of fallen angels. He is described in Ezekiel 28, both before and after his fall from grace. Some don't believe it is describing him but it is. In the first age he "sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty"...."Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.


His iniquity caused the end of that first age. Our present, second age, began as shown in Gen. 1:2 and before long who shows up again? The old serpent. God uses him in this age to test us. He allows him to be prince of this world, to work his deceit but to counteract him God wrote a letter that explains all of this. That letter is our protection.


The phrase "dust thou shalt eat all the days of thy life" shows the degradation God placed the serpent in....and knowing this, some here believe the serpent is to be thought of as good. They are wrong!


The serpent in the garden is in the same form today as he was in the garden. He is an angelic being. He will be in that same form when he comes at the end of this age to deceive the world but there he will try to mislead all by pretending to be Christ........and he will fool many.


There was no apple in the garden.



............Whirlwind

Originally posted by Kaliayev
According to the stories, one deity wanted to keep humans ignorant and another supernatural being wanted to give humans knowledge. I know which one I look down on more.

Does God disapprove of Denying Ignorance? Passages in Genesis seem to suggest so.

God did not want to keep knowledge away from us. He wanted to keep evil knowledge away. The fallen angels came to earth (and for that they have been condemned to death) and they brought knowledge of evil things. For that reason and that they "took" the daughters of Adam and had children....giants and evil beings, God sent Noah's flood to wipe their offspring off the earth. It did but some came back again.


...........Whirlwind

trying to turn us away is evil as well.

If Satan, or the snake, what'ev didn't tempt us with the forbidden fruit, we would not be here today, because all that would be of humanity is Adam an Eve. Sure, we got kicked out of the garden of Eden, but at least we know what good and bad is, and that we can have children, instead of just Adam and Eve as just the only humans.

Also, before Adam and Eve even ate the apple, they didn’t even know what good and bad was in the first place, So how could god, knowing what they’d do, before it even created them, punish them for doing something bad, when they didn’t even know what bad was….

In other words….

They did something bad, without knowing what bad was…. and then punished for doing something bad, even though they didn’t know they were doing something bad In the first place…because they didn’t know what bad was…..the entire Adam and Eve thing is just BS…

We are wicked, evil,

no...we are good and nice, when someone done something bad, they are a bad person, when you do something good, you are a good person, we are not born bad, that's retarded, what could you possibly have done just as you're born????? wtf

We are wicked, evil, no deed can be done to repair that sad fact.

What planet do you come from........?
You hurt someone, you apologies, the deed is done….that simple

The gift we can receive is because of the self sacrifice of another.

seriously, what the f@ck is with you people and sacrifice?

Through Jesus, we are cleansed.

Through Jesus Christ, a man that never existed, we can be cleansed of sins, that you say are sins, and only you. Everything's a f@cking sin, 'the sin of envy' sex before marriage, sin...., what if you get raped, or are really #en drunk??????