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Originally posted by PrinceHall06
but they say there can be no good in Masonry because we keep it secret,
Originally posted by The Axeman
Originally posted by mastermind77
THeres nothing new under the sun.
Funny you quote King Solomon in an argument against Masonry.
Originally posted by Blaine91555
The solution to the Free Mason reputation is simple. Get rid of the secrets. Only two reasons to keep a secret. To hide something or cover something up. There is I guess a third reason. Its fun to keep secrets if your a child or a childish adult.
It is clear that either the Masons are hiding something or covering something up. So tell us what you are hiding or covering up and all the hype ends.
I personally think what they are hiding is that they are a discriminatory club who considers themselves to be superior to others. Can't let that get out can we? I think they are also covering up the fact that they use the club as a way to gain unfair and bordering on illegal advantage in business and politics.
I do not think there is anything Mystical or Otherworldly about them. They are just a group of Elitists who consider themselves above the masses.
I've noticed a large contingent of Mason here on ATS. I often wonder if it is a Policing action looking for fellow or former Masons spilling the beans. If the rumors are to be believed the punishment could be death
Read the drivel written by 33d degree Freemasons. I don't have time to explain that or provide examples.
I have. Over and over and over, over the course of many years.
Originally posted by syrinx high priest
literally speaking, wasn't there a text in france (I think) which was the first connection of masonry to satanism ? I'm thinking 1700's maybe
Originally posted by Masonic Student
reply to post by Redge777
Thank you for the links. The only thing is the second doesn’t appear to have any reference to or about Masonry. I’m not able to comment on the Masonic affiliation of the author. There is no reference to free masonry in either the introduction or the preface.
Originally posted by Researcher
"If you do not have the time to explain or provide examples then I ask why did you bother contributing to my topic? Was it because the 'bottom line' was supposed to convince me?"
It is what we call a suggestion. Put some effort into this. You find the subject interesting, but not interesting enough to get off your duff?
"I would think that, since it has been such a mission for you, one more time would not be that difficult if you really wanted to get your message out there. And I am not asking for you to type an essay, paragraph or even a sentence, because I'm sure, since you've done it so many times, it must be on the internet somewhere... So a link will be satisfactory."
I scanned all of this fascinating material into a computer. Arranged it in an orderly fashion, so people who have difficulty with linear thought could follow the train of thought.
The computer ate a power surge. All the smoke came out of it. It's FUBAR. Lightning strikes again.
I can rebuild the files. Search through these books again, find all this stuff again, scan it again, post it again. Burn up a holiday weekend just for you. Because you play such a special role in my life.
Or you can put a little effort into this yourself. And I can do other things with my time.
Which do you think is more likely?
Oh, wait, There's a third possibility. You won't do anything, you'll throw a temper tantrum because you didn't get your way and I will go on about my business as if you don't matter one little bit in my life.
Yeah. My money is on horse #3.
Originally posted by Redge777
I have no desire to learn more of freemasonry. I have learned enough, that until the issues I have are resolved I do not need to know more.
And the conversations I have are about the credibility of secret organizations, I am not soliciting information about masons, I am pointing out a credibility gap in their postings.
It is a responce, and well thought out.
In this thread I simply offered books to answer OP. Why would I need to be interested in masonary to call dishonesty in a post? I am interested in society as a whole, and when masons post or discuss there order with society that is my interest, not masonary.
Originally posted by Masonic Student
My question strictly referred to your position with respect to the secrecy of masonry. If you can either read the full ritual either on-line or by purchase a book where it is written out in plane English, how can there be “secrecy”?
We do not reveal the “secrets” of the ritual out of tradition.
Originally posted by troppo_ozstyle
If the rituals are the secrets and are already available, as you say, why bother with the pretense? Especially considering that is the source of all negativity directed at Masonry.
Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
Because no matter how many times it's pointed out just how much of Masonry is functionally available online, there will always be a braying few insisting that there's yet more 'secrets', that Masons haven't 'come clean' so to speak. These people need a group to demonise and despite their 'facts' having been often and thoroughly shown to be anything but, they insist that their unsubstantiable gut feeling tells them they're right.
Without their windmills, these latter-day Don Quixotes are nothing.