The Greatest lie ever told - The Bible, page 1

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Topic started on 22-9-2007 @ 06:13 AM by Quantum_Squirrel

The Greatest lie ever told - The Bible
Before i proceed to point out the problems with the Bible i must point out that i do believe in the possibilty of an
'intelligent creator' .

CREATION

Lets start with the first two books of the bible and Genesis.
The first chapter states that God creates Adam and Eve at the same time,

In the 2nd chapter God creates Adam, then Adam wanders around, names the animals does a few things, then he talks to God and Say's he is lonely, so God says Ok i will provide you with a mate so he takes the Rib and creates Eve.

In the first Two chapters of the book are conflicting Creation stories , so which is true? Now Believers will say "well it's just two different versions of the same story" this is fine but then don't say in the next Breath that the Bible is meant to be taken litterally and when it says something it means it!! because it obviously does not.

Modern man has 24 ribs. Did Adam have 25, 24 or 23? Did he grow a new rib to achieve 24 or did he have the spare 25th to begin with? If God made Adam, why couldn’t he make Eve in the same manner? Making Eve from Adam’s rib is like cloning, which would make their physical union a variation of incest.Maybe God just forgot the method He used to make Adam? The Bible turns the possibilty of God being an amazing scientist and demotes him into being a carnival magician..

THE GREAT FLOOD

The Bible says the Great Flood covered the entire world. The problem with that assertion is that the Biblical writers thought the earth was flat and only knew about a small part of the earth. While this does not in itself preclude a total planet flood, it precludes those writers from having the knowledge to make such a statement. Common sense in the 21st century allows us to infer that the idea itself is preposterous. That would apply even if all the ice on the planet melted.

I think we could all agree that there is no possible way that Noah could have put all 10 billion species on the planet on his Ark and then distrubuted them in the different regions of Earth that they are native to.
Noah's tale is probably a mixture of stories about a flood on the euphratees river, 125 miles south-east of present day bahgdad There is Archeoligical evidence that there was a 6 day storm around 2900 Bc and the river rose 22 feet, the river overflowed and a lot of people got killed. a Survivor a summarian king named 'Zuisudra' got hold of a commercial barge loaded it with merchandise and road the flood, landed safely on a hill top and made a sacrifice in a hill top temple to give thanks for his safe landing.
Sound familiar? great flood, happy landing on hilltop? at least 6 other cultures have a similar flood stories in the region and there is Geolicical and archeological evidence to prove this .. Noahs story no evidence outside the Bible.

MOSES AND THE RED SEA

Thousands of Jews are supposedly enslaved by the egyptian pharoh.. We cannot find ANY evidence of this anywhere. NONE, no were outside the Bible is there evidence that any jews were ever in egypt. there is also NO evidence of Moses outside the Bible, so moses go's to the pharoh and says let my people go and they escape and spend 40 years wandering around the desert. if thousands of people spent 40 years wandering a desert there would be evidence of them having been there, heck we find evidence of 2 people living in a cave from millions of years ago so thousands of people you would think there would be some.

Now lets go to the new testament.

JESUS CHRIST

An ancient jewish historian name joseephus wrote about Jesus and his followers later a first century Roman historian also wrote about Jesus and the fact he was crucified, at least we do have evidence of this (althoguh written decades or centuries after the fact.

Jesus was not the only messaih at the time, did you all know this? there were lots of messiah's. there is documentation of another fellow named ' apolonias of tyana' who in the first century was claimed by his followers to walk through walls , heal the sick and raised the dead. He was persucuted for his religous beliefs he was brought to trial by the local roman court and crucified and after he died he rose from the dead...sound familiar?

Ironicaly Monty Python's life of Brian is more accurate with its plague of messiah's than the Bible.

THE BIBLE...

People always Love to quote the Bible, however they always seem to pick and choose
If you believe the Bible is the word of God you cannot pick and choose which parts to live your life by you must incorparate it all.
conservatives love to quote the famous passage,
13. If a man also lie with a man-kind, as he lieth with a women, both of them have commited an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Therefore homosexuality is a sin ....but if you turn to the next chapter it clearly states that you should stone to death disobediant children!!!

So you pick and choose the parts of the Bible that you like and convienantly ignore the parts you do not, this is not just and is not fair afterall isn't it all the word of God?
other classics include it is ok to sell your daughters into slavery, and it is a Sin for a man to have long hair. lol ever see a picture of Jesus with short hair? i didn't think so.
If you believe that your God is infallable you cannot throw out some of the rules because you disagree with them.Whatever you do , do not read the Bible for a Moral code it advocates prejudice, cruelty, superstition and murder.
If your religous and you believe the Bible is true because of faith nothing you read will persuade you otherwise would instantly turn you into an atheist?.......... 'none i have faith'
Organised religion has been responsible for most of the wars on the planet and the big one may yet be to come, the Bible is a form of control so you all work your ass of on this earth because you believe there is a big reward at the end of it all.

In closing put the Book down and go out into the world and see whats really happening and actually DO something for the greater good of all regardless of thier beliefs.
I saw a great post on here once, i quote ' I know your just trying to save my soul, but guess what? i'm trying to save your mind'

So close the Book and stop reading ....'The greatest lie ever told'

this info was collated from numerous sources and includes my own opinions

reply posted on 22-9-2007 @ 06:58 PM by whirlwind

reply to post by Quantum_Squirrel

Lets start with the first two books of the bible and Genesis.
The first chapter states that God creates Adam and Eve at the same time,

In the 2nd chapter God creates Adam, then Adam wanders around, names the animals does a few things, then he talks to God and Say's he is lonely, so God says Ok i will provide you with a mate so he takes the Rib and creates Eve.

In the first Two chapters of the book are conflicting Creation stories , so which is true? Now Believers will say "well it's just two different versions of the same story" this is fine but then don't say in the next Breath that the Bible is meant to be taken litterally and when it says something it means it!! because it obviously does not.

The creation story should be taken literally and it isn't two versions of the same story. Gen.1:26 shows us the creation of man, or mankind - the races. God created male and female at the same time on day 6 and "it was good". Adam wasn't formed until day 8, (Gen.2:7) and Eve came along later (2:21).

The animals created with mankind were the wild animals. Adam was a tiller of the soil so the animals created for him were to be a "help meet", or assist in farming.

Modern man has 24 ribs. Did Adam have 25, 24 or 23? Did he grow a new rib to achieve 24 or did he have the spare 25th to begin with? If God made Adam, why couldn’t he make Eve in the same manner? Making Eve from Adam’s rib is like cloning, which would make their physical union a variation of incest.Maybe God just forgot the method He used to make Adam? The Bible turns the possibilty of God being an amazing scientist and demotes him into being a carnival magician..

You have made a very astute observation. The word rib as used in that verse, is shown in Strong's Concordance as:

#6763 tsal'ah; a rib (as curved), lit. (of the body) or fig. (of a door, i.e. leaf); hence, a side, lit. (of a person) or fig. (of an object or the sky, i.e quarter); arch, a (espec. floor or ceiling) timber or plank (single or collect, i.e. a flooring); - beam, board, chamber, corner, leaf, plank, rib, side chamber)

Well, as you have pointed out, man still has the same amount of ribs as a woman, and we know the word shouldn't have been translated as a plank or beam. I believe it should have been translated from the manuscripts into English by selecting the meaning of "curved". Could this be the helix curve and the DNA was taken from Adam to create Eve?

Through Adam would come Christ. That line was to remain pure. It appears God began the line in the purest form possible so when Adam said, "This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh", he was correct. God kept close watch over that geneology through the advent of Christ.

THE GREAT FLOOD

The Bible says the Great Flood covered the entire world. The problem with that assertion is that the Biblical writers thought the earth was flat and only knew about a small part of the earth. While this does not in itself preclude a total planet flood, it precludes those writers from having the knowledge to make such a statement. Common sense in the 21st century allows us to infer that the idea itself is preposterous. That would apply even if all the ice on the planet melted.

I think we could all agree that there is no possible way that Noah could have put all 10 billion species on the planet on his Ark and then distrubuted them in the different regions of Earth that they are native to.
Noah's tale is probably a mixture of stories about a flood on the euphratees river, 125 miles south-east of present day bahgdad There is Archeoligical evidence that there was a 6 day storm around 2900 Bc and the river rose 22 feet, the river overflowed and a lot of people got killed. a Survivor a summarian king named 'Zuisudra' got hold of a commercial barge loaded it with merchandise and road the flood, landed safely on a hill top and made a sacrifice in a hill top temple to give thanks for his safe landing.
Sound familiar? great flood, happy landing on hilltop? at least 6 other cultures have a similar flood stories in the region and there is Geolicical and archeological evidence to prove this .. Noahs story no evidence outside the Bible.

I agree with you in that I believe the flood of Noah happened to the area of the earth he was in (that is just my opinion). If we are correct then the animals he took on the ark would be those from that area. Why do you think the Biblical writers thought the earth was flat? One, God is the dictator of the Bible and He knows it is round and two the Book of Isaiah doesn't agree with you.

Isaiah 40:22 It is He That sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; That stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Because the Summarians had a similar story shouldn't be confused with the narration of Noah being false. Rather, I would think that the story was confiscated by them.

Continued:

............Whirlwind

reply posted on 22-9-2007 @ 07:07 PM by mrwupy

Good grief, You start by saying you believe in God then start tearing other peoples beliefs apart. Unless you can give absolute proof that your beliefs are better than theirs than your arguing over who has the better imaginary friend.

The problem with all religions isn't that you think you've cornered the market on God, but that you have to prove no one else has.

It's not abut the Bible, or the Koran or the dead sea scrolls or anything else along those lines.

The problem is fine ATS members like you wanting to tell everyone else their belief in God is wrong while sitting in your little ivory tower and passing judgment.

ALL people should be free to believe as they choose without someone else sitting around telling them how wrong they are.

Religion should be in the heart, Not on the battlefield. Until we all accept that, the senseless killings will go on.

wupy

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[edit on 22/9/2007 by Mirthful Me]

reply posted on 22-9-2007 @ 07:29 PM by whirlwind

reply to post by Quantum_Squirrel

Part 2:

MOSES AND THE RED SEA

Thousands of Jews are supposedly enslaved by the egyptian pharoh.. We cannot find ANY evidence of this anywhere. NONE, no were outside the Bible is there evidence that any jews were ever in egypt. there is also NO evidence of Moses outside the Bible, so moses go's to the pharoh and says let my people go and they escape and spend 40 years wandering around the desert. if thousands of people spent 40 years wandering a desert there would be evidence of them having been there, heck we find evidence of 2 people living in a cave from millions of years ago so thousands of people you would think there would be some.

Of course there is evidence. They are shown inscribed on the walls as building in Egypt. They wandered for 40 years because they were being punished, not because they couldn't find their way out. There is proof shown in two places that I know of. At the bottom of the Red Sea chariot wheels have been found belonging to that dynasty. Also, there is evidence on Mt. Sinai of an encampment and places of worship.

God doesn't lie, His Book doesn't lie.

Now lets go to the new testament.

JESUS CHRIST

An ancient jewish historian name joseephus wrote about Jesus and his followers later a first century Roman historian also wrote about Jesus and the fact he was crucified, at least we do have evidence of this (althoguh written decades or centuries after the fact.

Jesus was not the only messaih at the time, did you all know this? there were lots of messiah's. there is documentation of another fellow named ' apolonias of tyana' who in the first century was claimed by his followers to walk through walls , heal the sick and raised the dead. He was persucuted for his religous beliefs he was brought to trial by the local roman court and crucified and after he died he rose from the dead...sound familiar?

Ironicaly Monty Python's life of Brian is more accurate with its plague of messiah's than the Bible.

Time itself changed with Christ and you question His life?

THE BIBLE...

People always Love to quote the Bible, however they always seem to pick and choose
If you believe the Bible is the word of God you cannot pick and choose which parts to live your life by you must incorparate it all.
conservatives love to quote the famous passage,
13. If a man also lie with a man-kind, as he lieth with a women, both of them have commited an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Therefore homosexuality is a sin ....but if you turn to the next chapter it clearly states that you should stone to death disobediant children!!!

So you pick and choose the parts of the Bible that you like and convienantly ignore the parts you do not, this is not just and is not fair afterall isn't it all the word of God?

It is all the Word of God. Christ came to earth and died for our sins so through Him we can repent and be forgiven. That is the beauty of Christianity.

other classics include it is ok to sell your daughters into slavery, and it is a Sin for a man to have long hair. lol ever see a picture of Jesus with short hair? i didn't think so.

I'm not familiar with what scripture you are referencing about selling a daughter. I am guessing you mean if a daughter has to be sold as a bond servant. It wouldn't be a desirable thing but it may be their only option. According to their law she would be released at the end of seven years, whether or not her indenture was paid.

The pictures we see of Jesus of course, are artist's depiction, but I believe He did actually have long hair. The reference to it being a sin for man to have long hair is about homosexuality not the literal wearing of long hair.

If you believe that your God is infallable you cannot throw out some of the rules because you disagree with them.Whatever you do , do not read the Bible for a Moral code it advocates prejudice, cruelty, superstition and murder.

God isn't just "my God" but the God of all of us, you included, whether you do or do not recognize that and He is infallible. Of course it contains a moral code and there are reasons for what you perceive as prejudice, etc. He doesn't ask our opinions or need our permission. We must understand that He is just, He is fair and there are reasons for what He does. We may never know or we may know when we see Him....one day.

If your religous and you believe the Bible is true because of faith nothing you read will persuade you otherwise would instantly turn you into an atheist?.......... 'none i have faith'
Organised religion has been responsible for most of the wars on the planet and the big one may yet be to come, the Bible is a form of control so you all work your ass of on this earth because you believe there is a big reward at the end of it all.

So close the Book and stop reading ....'The greatest lie ever told'

The bible is true and contains no lies. As far as wars, have you ever asked yourself if perhaps there is a reason for them? We don't live in a perfect world and until Christ comes again we will be fighting evil. To not recognize that is to stick your head in the sand or remain a child. Neither is attractive or intelligent. War isn't pretty but it may be necessary in this world age. The next age will be one of peace but we must get there first.

...........Whirlwind

reply posted on 22-9-2007 @ 07:34 PM by Jovi1

Well as far as creation goes i dont believe it to be absolutly literal simply try to expain to a small child geology biology and evolution you cant do without putting it a way in which they could ever understand. As to why Eve is fashioned from a piece of Adam, in part it is a symbol of what a marriage is supposed to be two fashioned from one.

As to the great flood well another one that doesnt have to be literally the entire world, just the immeadiate region in which the author would have been living would be more than enough seeing as ti is the whole world as far as he knows.

Moses and the escape of the Isralites, can easily be held to be true as the anceint Egyptians are known for changing history erasing complete geanologies throughout the various reings of their Pharohs and biblically it is stated that Moses was indeed subjected to this. So now you have a culture that we know practiced revisionist history pretty much getting their hindends handed to them by a bunch of escaping slaves would you make sure posterity knew about it? Hell no you wouldnt that would be inviting whatever rivals you had to invade.

There may have been alot of Messiah's running around the region in those days, but somehow this one manages to change the world for all time. To a believer this just reinforces the belief he must be the right one.

As far as the bible and the Laws contained therin it was meant more to be guide of how to live and form a just and moral society and the hebrews exercized the letter of the law. Jesus came to show us how to live according to the spirit of it.

These are my personal veiws on the topic, and i appreciate the time you took to make this thread if it can be kept in good and kind spirits has the potential to be really thought provoking.

reply posted on 22-9-2007 @ 07:37 PM by BO XIAN

reply to post by Quantum_Squirrel

I think Josh McDowell's

NEW EVIDENCE THAT DEMANDS A VERDICT takes care of such horrific and off the wall allegations quite nicely.

I find such thread titles offensive to the max.

I find them baiting; hostile; insulting; ill-informed AT BEST; and generally outrageous.

My typical response is to avoid such threads like the plague. As I intend to now do with this one.

reply posted on 23-9-2007 @ 03:39 AM by thesneakiod

reply to post by BO XIAN

I find it even more insulting to believe in something purely from a whim.
Believe in the ideas of what religion holds by all means, but don't be so ignorant to accept that there is a god with no proof at all.

Its always the way with stout believers, they are so blinkered when it comes to their faith that they shun and criticize anyone who questions it.

The day people accept that religion was created to keep the masses in check will be a good day for humanity.

reply posted on 23-9-2007 @ 04:18 AM by Ingolstadt

Perhaps the Bible needs a page at the beginning, much like The Da Vinci Code that states that the material within is FACT or FICTION.

I see it this way:

Anyone who believes that a story like Noah's Ark actually happened needs help, however, anyone who believes that there's no reason to tell a story like that one needs help as well.

reply posted on 23-9-2007 @ 05:05 AM by SoFunkyMe

reply to post by Quantum_Squirrel

love this topic very intresting allways found it intresting me myself ima athiest reading things like this and i find all things u said very intresting is it really all tru we need more athiest

reply posted on 23-9-2007 @ 05:15 AM by jedimiller

from what i've seen so far, there's lot of people in here trying to debunk the bible, saying it's not historical. it IS history. it's where we all came from, creation is explained very well there, it's all in front of you, all you have to do is pick up a book and read. it's not a lie, the lie comes from lying to yourself. so be honest with yourself and accept it, then it will all be clear to you. it's no lie, people had no reason to lie back then, there were honest people with honest living and fundamental beliefs.

reply posted on 23-9-2007 @ 05:38 AM by SoFunkyMe

reply to post by jedimiller

show me proof that all that is tru u have proof that there is god were? we need proof for everything well thats how i live

reply posted on 23-9-2007 @ 06:31 AM by Praxilla

Originally posted by jedimiller... it's no lie, people had no reason to lie back then, there were honest people with honest living and fundamental beliefs.

Wow...so by this "reasoning" then why shouldn't we believe the ancient Egyptians and Greeks with all their Gods. They were around back then when no one was lying, or had reason to. lol

Praxilla

reply posted on 23-9-2007 @ 08:16 AM by WraothAscendant

reply to post by Quantum_Squirrel

Why do people continue to persist in using that little jewel of antireligious BS propaganda?

Organised religion has been responsible for most of the wars on the planet and the big one may yet be to come, the Bible is a form of control so you all work your ass of on this earth because you believe there is a big reward at the end of it all.

If you dug deeper into the reasons for those wars you will find that greed fuel all of them. Greed for money, greed for more land, greed for power. Just religious differences (one of many differences to pick from) are a darn convient excuse to take what you want from your neighbor. That and well if they claim "gawd" mandates it then that makes its ok in their eyes.

You don't accept most of what they say but you accept their excuses for comitting their insanities? That is what has never really made much sense to me about people that use that line. Though I can understand the skewed "It compliments my stance" logic of it.

I do agree though that organised religion was created for the sole reason of control by saying "If you don't do what I say you will be forever damned." though. And no I am not a christian, they make my gums ache for the most part for various reasons I shall not state. Tolerance is something painfully lacking on ALL SIDES.

[edit on 23-9-2007 by WraothAscendant]

reply posted on 23-9-2007 @ 08:23 AM by WraothAscendant

Originally posted by mrwupy
Good grief, You start by saying you believe in God then start tearing other peoples beliefs apart. Unless you can give absolute proof that your beliefs are better than theirs than your arguing over who has the better imaginary friend.

The problem with all religions isn't that you think you've cornered the market on God, but that you have to prove no one else has.

It's not abut the Bible, or the Koran or the dead sea scrolls or anything else along those lines.

The problem is fine ATS members like you wanting to tell everyone else their belief in God is wrong while sitting in your little ivory tower and passing judgment.

ALL people should be free to believe as they choose without someone else sitting around telling them how wrong they are.

Religion should be in the heart, Not on the battlefield. Until we all accept that, the senseless killings will go on.

wupy

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[edit on 22/9/2007 by Mirthful Me]

Exactly. Nail on the head.

Stars for you!

reply posted on 23-9-2007 @ 08:31 AM by WraothAscendant

Originally posted by SoFunkyMe
reply to post by jedimiller

show me proof that all that is tru u have proof that there is god were? we need proof for everything well thats how i live

You break your own rule sir. The one on your signature.
RESPECT.
Here is the definition for it since you obviously don't seem to understand wht that means. From dictionary.com

1. a particular, detail, or point (usually prec. by in): to differ in some respect.
2. relation or reference: inquiries with respect to a route.
3. esteem for or a sense of the worth or excellence of a person, a personal quality or ability, or something considered as a manifestation of a personal quality or ability: I have great respect for her judgment.
4. deference to a right, privilege, privileged position, or someone or something considered to have certain rights or privileges; proper acceptance or courtesy; acknowledgment: respect for a suspect's right to counsel; to show respect for the flag; respect for the elderly.
5. the condition of being esteemed or honored: to be held in respect.
6. respects, a formal expression or gesture of greeting, esteem, or friendship: Give my respects to your parents.
7. favor or partiality.
8. Archaic. a consideration.
–verb (used with object) 9. to hold in esteem or honor: I cannot respect a cheat.
10. to show regard or consideration for: to respect someone's rights.
11. to refrain from intruding upon or interfering with: to respect a person's privacy.
12. to relate or have reference to.
—Idioms13. in respect of, in reference to; in regard to; concerning.
14. in respect that, Archaic. because of; since.
15. pay one's respects, a. to visit in order to welcome, greet, etc.: We paid our respects to the new neighbors.
b. to express one's sympathy, esp. to survivors following a death: We paid our respects to the family.
16. with respect to, referring to; concerning: with respect to your latest request.

reply posted on 23-9-2007 @ 08:55 AM by Quantum_Squirrel

Originally posted by Jovi1

As far as the bible and the Laws contained therin it was meant more to be guide of how to live and form a just and moral society and the hebrews exercized the letter of the law. Jesus came to show us how to live according to the spirit of it.

i agree some parts of the Bible have good moral codes but others do not, so how can we throw away bits of Gods words and keep the ones we like just because it happens to fit the readers views at the time.

great flood was local ? not so much of a great flood .. weres the miracle? no miracle = not the hand of God, not the hand of God = just another intresting story.

for the other poster the summarian flood story is much older than the Bibles flood story so i suggest you revise who borrowed the story of whom.

Bo Xian quoted

I find such thread titles offensive to the max.

I find them baiting; hostile; insulting; ill-informed AT BEST; and generally outrageous.

My typical response is to avoid such threads like the plague. As I intend to now do with this one.

good don't post then and avoid being in the discussion as to wether the Bible is a great lie but ty for your well constructed and informative views.

MR WUPY

Good grief, You start by saying you believe in God then start tearing other peoples beliefs apart. Unless you can give absolute proof that your beliefs are better than theirs than your arguing over who has the better imaginary friend.

You missunderstand just because i said there is the possibility of an intelligent creator , this doesn't mean i believe in an current form of God as portrayed by any human being currently on the planet.

thier could be .. an Alien Creator/ a transcendent being existing outside of what we know as time and space / or even NO designer we may just be a cosmic coincedence.

at least i am open to All possibilites yes even yours!! i just have little faith in the great Book as it is flawed in so many places, written over thousands of years by MEN with their own agendas and has many basic flaws in its pages.

the Bible and associated religion is contrived to control the masses, i dont like organised religion one bit.

reply posted on 23-9-2007 @ 09:15 AM by befoiled

What I find surprising - at least here on ATS - is that while so many are quick to be critical of our respective governments, making accusations of cover-ups, mind control, mass murder, rewriting history, and generally trying to manipulate the population, the same criticism of religion (and their holy texts) spawns legions of defenders. This despite the fact that organized religion has a rich history of similar oppression.

Defenders of the bible seem to lack the ability to read it objectively, conveniently glossing over its many inconsistencies and digging out a phrase here or a paragraph there that supports their (often preconceived) Christian beliefs.

If that book is read objectively and supported by existing historical data, the only sane conclusion is that the bible is merely another tool in the bags of conspirators who, in league with government, would have your minds, your wealth, and your lives.

reply posted on 23-9-2007 @ 09:17 AM by Atlantix

Jesus was a teacher of truth, wisdom, mercy, love, and forgiveness. And I think that's all we should remember from the bible. All the rest is just hogwash and contradictions imo.

reply posted on 23-9-2007 @ 09:29 AM by onthefence81

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
reply to post by Quantum_Squirrel

Why do people continue to persist in using that little jewel of antireligious BS propaganda?

Organised religion has been responsible for most of the wars on the planet and the big one may yet be to come, the Bible is a form of control so you all work your ass of on this earth because you believe there is a big reward at the end of it all.

If you dug deeper into the reasons for those wars you will find that greed fuel all of them. Greed for money, greed for more land, greed for power. Just religious differences (one of many differences to pick from) are a darn convient excuse to take what you want from your neighbor. That and well if they claim "gawd" mandates it then that makes its ok in their eyes.

You don't accept most of what they say but you accept their excuses for comitting their insanities? That is what has never really made much sense to me about people that use that line. Though I can understand the skewed "It compliments my stance" logic of it.

I do agree though that organised religion was created for the sole reason of control by saying "If you don't do what I say you will be forever damned." though. And no I am not a christian, they make my gums ache for the most part for various reasons I shall not state. Tolerance is something painfully lacking on ALL SIDES.

Your statements are not entirely true and i can prove it.

Lets say there is a piece of land and there are 3 different civilisations. All have equal amounts of land area, equal resources etc. 2 are christian nations and 1 muslim. Who is more likely to to be attacked? Hmmmm let me think!

Wars of the past have been about land, greed etc but and thats a big but most of these wars are directed at another culture.

So we could say that wars are partly fueled by religious views!

[edit on 23-9-2007 by onthefence81]

[edit on 23-9-2007 by onthefence81]

reply posted on 23-9-2007 @ 09:40 AM by Cythraul

Excellent thread.

I believe that the bible was, and still is a tool of oppression and control. However, I believe that Jesus himself was a wise man, most likely a Shaman. I believe that his message was very far removed from that which the bible relates, and that if he were alive to read the bible now, he would denounce almost all of it.

As has been stated earlier in this thread, and rightly so, the bible's stories borrow from earlier Mesopotomanian occurances.

Also, I share the belief of the Gnostics that the God depicted in the Old Testament is a completely different God depicted in the new Testament. That's not to say that either of those Gods does or did exist (as the Gnostics and Christians believed), it's simply to suggest that whoever wrote the New Testament portrayed a very different God from that portrayed in the Old Testmanent. Look at them both! One is Wrath and punishment, the other is "turn the other cheek", love and forgiveness. They are as different as Kali and Odin! Why God was portrayed differently from one book to the other I do not know, but my guess would be that agendas had to be suited.

I quite controversially believe that Christianity, Islam and Judaism are the hidden evils of the modern world. If the Devil's greatest trick was convincing the world he doesn't exist, then God's greatest trick was convincing the world that he's the good guy.

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