Good post, i agree completely with you mate. People who are offended by this thread should get over it. Many people who hold religious beliefs try to shove religious propaganda down our throats all the time, so why not have it the other way for once?

Fact is the bible is NOT history, it is written by sources who lived centuries after the events. The bible is not hard evidence for anything, more of a story really. Science provides fact, perhaps that should be given a try?

I should add, that im not saying nothing in the bible is true, but much of it should be taken lightly.

[edit on 23-9-2007 by 7seven]

They have found evidence that the Jews were free and built the pyramids willingly.

The jews designed and built the structures.As free people.

As a construction contractor.Which the Egyptian goverment paid for.

This also donates the fact that there was religious freedom.

And the whole chasing moses as slaves and the red sea is BS.

This was according to discovery channels research.

I will try to dig up some of the material they based this off of in there video.

I do agree tho the bible is in fact a cover story. To something that happened around 1 a.d.

to hide the true age of the earth.


[edit on 23-9-2007 by infamouskiller]

If people wish to believe literally in the Bible, that's their prerogative.

If they belive it's a parable for a righteous life, that's their choice too.

And if i regard it as utter tosh for the gullible, that's my choice.

This World without religion seems like a Utopia to some, including me but it's never going to happen.

Religion of all flavours is too deeply ingrained in the masses to ever be excised fully but it can be excised from the individual.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion and i'd be the first to defend that right.

Originally posted by made2fade
If people wish to believe literally in the Bible, that's their prerogative.

If they belive it's a parable for a righteous life, that's their choice too.

And if i regard it as utter tosh for the gullible, that's my choice.

This World without religion seems like a Utopia to some, including me but it's never going to happen.

Religion of all flavours is too deeply ingrained in the masses to ever be excised fully but it can be excised from the individual.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion and i'd be the first to defend that right.

Right blame all the worlds evil more or less on one thing. Yea thats a clear world view. Completely attempt to vindicate the humanity that CREATED the damn thing. Right. The individual Nazi's weren't at fault. It was Nazism.

So no one is going to say anything on the Asian and Africa break off heresies that were founded a few hundred years before the Roman one?

And oh yea, the Jews did build Egyptian cities. I'm not sure on the pyramid though. But you can force anyone to do anything upon proper force of will. They were uneducated blubbering fools at the time, and those kind are easily controlled. The fact that Egypt owned slaves to begin with makes id obvious that Jewish slaves were perfectly possible. Weren't they pyramids built around 7000 years ago? 5000 BC was some 1000 or so years before the Jews came there I think, but I suck at Math and dates.

Any who, the thing is, religion can't be stopped. I have a buhhdist quote from some guy in SE Asia that I love:

"You forgot one thing, religion always wins! It is like a flood. If you think plugging the Dam's holes with toothpaste will do anything, live in that fantasy. The water always finds a way. Forget which one IT is, the flood of religion always wins. Look at Russia. The Communists tried for 80 or so years to stop religion, and they got no where, Your Christian God now calls his flock from China, not Europe. And I can already see the revival of religion in Europe. Look at your world, when Europe crumbles, they will find help in God once again. It is funny to see this people think they can stop the flood. They will all drown, as have so many others."

Anyways, you were wrong about the Jesus part. The Roman historian you mention that talked about Jesus a decade later, the works of his that mention Jesus have been proven to be forgeries. The first mentionings of Jesus aren't until 200 years after his death. There are no mentionings of any of the apostles during their lifetimes either. Censored parts of the Bible even show that Jesus, like Muhammed, was a pedophile.

There are errors in the Bible even on the first page in Genesis. Events about the creation of Earth and the Universe are mentioned out of order in ways they never could have happened.

Anyone who seriously believes anything in the Bible because it's in the Bible does not deserve to be reasoned with.

[edit on 9/23/07 by RedDragon]

First, good for you - its good to be realistic and ask questions.

For evangelical Christians, they will say the Bible should be taken literal no matter what.
However Judaism holds that it shouldnt be taken literal, and that the creation story is on 4 levels of understanding...known as P.R.D.S. (wont go into this now, but think of the first level as 'parable' level. - which fits with the Christian Jesus, so I dont know why Christians have such an issue with this...well, actually I do - and I wont go into that now either.)

So, you would think the modern evangelical movement would go for understanding of their 'Word' by studying what the people who had it before them (the Jews). In reality, modern day evangelical Christianity is a modern creation (and no, its not true to Pauls teaching if you would understand some aspects of Judaism a bit better.)

NOW...having said that. I am not implying that the Jews have the truth on their interpretation of the parable of the garden, if you will.

But the point isnt any longer is it true or not...but what is it pointing to?
How does the symbols line up with cosmology in general? With science?
Is that rib really a symbol for 'God' taking a dna strand?

What is God...Im sure you have noticed the inconsistent nature of an all powerful God who seems to be jealous and worried that man will be 'like one of us'.

So good for you...at least you have an open mind on this.

Now on the other hand, to go to try to evangelize the evangelicals and point out their fault will only cause a deeper divide (not saying you did that...)

Every person has the ability to grasp reality from the perspective that they have on life...so the truth is available to all (as the 'good book says'..."he lets the rain fall on the good and the bad")

The only issue could potentially be, if people choose to keep looking - like the blind man touching one part of the elephant and describing what he thinks the whole is and getting it all wrong - well same with religion, they get one part of the puzzle and potentially miss out on the wealth of the journey of finding the rest. ("seek and you will find when you search with all your heart"...not "when you search within the safety of your walls")

So having said that...

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
When you close your mind to ANY possiblity to will wantonly ignore any evidence to the contrary, its human nature. Not matter how much YOU CLAIM you are open minded...
When anything is FAR from being proven or disproven.

I don't believe in the tooth fairy either. I close my mind to the possibility because of the overwhelming lack of evidence. This is a perfectly logical assumption or, as you say, human nature.

In regards to the subject of this thread - the validity of the Bible - I was hoping more of its defenders would provide some sort of argument that is more than a collection of books written over a long period of time, slapped together into one volume by a state-mandated religious council.

Add to this the number of revisions and translations it has been through, the outrageous claims contained within, the inconsistencies, the remarkable similarities with earlier myths, the lack of supporting evidence, and the horrors that have been done in its name.

Though I do theorize that the Bible, like other religious texts, are merely books written by people, I came to this thread with an open mind. It's just going to take more than someone's personal testimony of their relationship with Jesus to discount that theory.

And for what it's worth I do think there are some good things in the Bible as well. But the word of God? It's inerrancy? Not so much.

I would like to ask the question to anyone who is a strong believer in the bible, what credible evidence about our creation does it provide that science and other religions do not? and have you bothered reading about other beliefs.

In my opinion religion is a tool used by scared indivduals as a means of avoiding/ignoring their eventual fate which is to ceast in existance. Some people can't comprehend/deal with this so their reaction is to believe a bunch of nonsense which makes them feel better about it.