Police caught on tape threatening to destroy and invent evidence

I'm happy, saw this story on the news the other day, and the cop was suspended. In my opinion its the least he deserves.

[edit on 13-9-2007 by luis9343]

Losing The Battle Of Wits

Originally posted by ShadeTree Philosopher
I will no longer engage in this battle of wits with unarmed opponents.

No more of this or any of the other personal attacks that are infecting this thread.

If you are unable to discuss the topic intelligently, then don't discuss it at all.

I'm really surprised at all the people who are here speculating that the kid was "baiting" the cop somehow, as though there would be something wrong with it if he was. As another poster has already pointed out, when the authorities do it, it's called a "sting". I don't care if this lad's hobby is driving around all night with a video camera, waiting for the police to stop him. He did nothing wrong. He's parking in a PUBLIC lot. That doesn't make his vehicle "suspicious." Maybe he pulled in to rest because he's too tired to drive. Maybe he wants to write down the lyrics to a song on the radio. Maybe he needs to relieve himself in a Mountain Dew bottle. The officer had no probable cause to suspect that he was involved in a crime, and thus no right to ask for anything but identification, which it appears the young man provided.

I actually hope it IS his hobby, because he's clearly performed a public service here. We have a public servant with anger management issues and a hair-trigger fuse, who should be on a very short leash if he remains on the force at all. Now that it's surfaced that he has concealed a criminal record, I suspect that may be used as grounds to dismiss him. I'd be very surprised if his application to become an officer didn't contain a question asking if he'd ever been convicted of a crime. I don't know if it's legal to answer "no" to that question if one's record has been expunged.

I have often thought it would be a good idea to have a camera in the car, just because I'd like to document things if I was ever involved in an accident. We hear about the "swoop and squat" scams, where someone abruptly changes lanes in front of you, then slams on the brakes so you rear-end them. I've never had it happen to me, but I'd hate to be in the position someday of pitting my solitary account of events against a carload of unscrupulous insurance scammers. In that case, it wouldn't be necessary to have a "secure source", but it would be nice to have cameras recording front, back, right, and left views of the moments leading up to the accident.

Seeing this video makes it clear that there are even more reasons to buy video insurance. Now that we've learned that the officer's own in-car video is mysteriously "unavailable," it's obvious that we need to protect ourselves from unscrupulous people in positions of authority as well. As others have noted, if it's just your word against the officer's you will lose.

I don't yet have a 4-camera system with a satellite upload, but I have started carrying a digital voice recorder with me, to record both sides of any future traffic stops. Reading this thread has helped to educate me about what my rights are, and I'll be able to decide when the time comes whether I want to answer questions and hope I'm back on my way quickly, or assert my rights and make the officer justify his actions.

Originally posted by Dr Love
OK, this one is tricky. First off, the cop stepped over the boundary of civility without a doubt, but has anyone ever tried to talk to a smartass before. They're always thinking of the next thing to say, NEVER listening. This kid obviously has had prior issues with authority, he said so himself. The city "paid" him not to sue.

The cop should be repremanded to a degree, but certainly shouldn't lose his job. The kid was parking in a dark parking lot at night. There's nothing wrong with the cop seeing what's up.

Peace

What's wrong is that this cop threatens to make up evidence to arrest him. This tyrrany and exactly what the New World Order is said to be. And it clearly is turning in to this. Police are becoming brutal, breaking the law, lying, and charging people for no reason. THis is police state insanity.

Post Removed.



(Mod edit: Um, no. We'll discuss this via U2U, and there will be no more disruptions of this thread. --Majic)

[edit on 9/14/2007 by Majic]

edit: I see where the mod just removed ShadeTree's post, so I will comply as well by removing the quoted post from him.

[edit on 14-9-2007 by Freenrgy2]

so, anyone have any info on decent camera systems like this person had?

In a sense, its hard to me to buy the kid baiting the cop in this instance, watch the video, unless there was something clipped out for brevity here, it seems like he was in the lot for all of what, 20 seconds?

My experience with cops has been mixed but mostly positive in its outcome, and yes, theres times I've been an outright ***hole and gotten beligerant in their face and walked away scott free, even in Florida.

My area? Well, I don't give specifics on the net but lets say that I'm close to 2 of the highest crime rate towns in illinois.

It is true, you get what you give, and at the same time, don't let that fall into giving up your rights in any situation. If they're polite, that reason do you have to not be polite in kind? but if they're being bullying and such, you do the same in the same manner, guess what, every single time, they've backed down. Thats the key, the same way they are. Don't do some passive aggressive 'thats violiting my rights' snivel, while you're there wringing your hat like some guy whos been henpecked by his wife for 20 years and just thought about standing up after watching rambo all weekend.

You want to bully them back, you do it by knowing your rights and knowing what you can and can't do, but also know that you have the time to spend if you're detained.

On the same token, I've had way more than a few completely normal run ins with the cops for various things, one was even giving me legal advice to defend myself in the future in the situation I was in (bad breakup with an ex I was living with). I had one instance where the house next to me was surrounded by cop cars because the guy 2 houses down is a cop, and they were bored and all responded to a D&D (drunk and...) call. they saw me pull up the street (a cul de sac) and I asked how long till they're done since my driveway was a few houses up, they actually went and got a few guys to move cars so I could shimmy my truck up the road to get home.

Of course, everyone is going to look out for their own. want to reduce your pullovers and harassment by leaps and bounds? go donate to the state cop retirement fund or whatever during their annual drives, get the thank you sticker they give and tack it on your bumper, believe me, it works. best $5 I ever spent.

not all cops are bad, but the good ones rarely get any press either.

Originally posted by CoffinFeeder
want to reduce your pullovers and harassment by leaps and bounds? go donate to the state cop retirement fund or whatever during their annual drives, get the thank you sticker they give and tack it on your bumper, believe me, it works. best $5 I ever spent.

not all cops are bad, but the good ones rarely get any press either.

How true. I used to give to Illinois State Police every year and had the sticker in my back window. I remember drving home late one night and was well over the speed limit on my way home. My eyesight wasn't that good (got glasses later) and passed a statie doing almost 90.

Got on the offramp and saw flashing lights heading my way. Pulled over and got that naueseating feeling waiting for the cop to show up. He takes my license and comes back about 5 minutes later and asks me to come back to his car (nothing wierd). I'm sitting there and tells me that he can't get rid of the ticket, but he's going to reduce my speed so I didn't have to pay a very hefty fine and the mandatory court appearance. I ended up with a $50 ticket and my nerves back. I never said anything about the State Police sticker on the back of my car, but I think that had a lot to do with me not getting the heftier fine.

[edit on 14-9-2007 by Freenrgy2]

We need national conduct audits for all police and sheriff departments.

I couldn't agree more.

As a side note, being that the topics can get pretty extreme here, does it bother anyone that this website is likely closely monitored by local, state, and/or government officials? Sometimes I wonder if some of these threads are started by those very people trying to bait others into revealing a little too much about their thought process/potential for civil unrest and so forth.

Well, I guess I'll have to just get over my paranoia at being watched on this kind of website - I just feel them all over the place.

Anywho, I Just got done reading the transcript...

Transcript of Audio

This really gets to me because this kind of thing happens way too often. Most people don't have the cameras on hand or are afraid to publicly speak out to show how common this type of abuse really is among police officers in the U.S..

"Officer #1: You know what? You don't take it out on me. You don't never take it out on a cop cause we will ruin your career and life and everything else you have coming before you.
Okay?"

This police officer is out of control, terrorizing and is a danger to fellow Americans.

What is also quite common is that police officers follow through with actually ruining their fellow American's lives/careers with their lies and overly inflated egos.

Every police department in the United States needs to be completely over-hauled and re-vamped in order to weed out the corrupt and begin focusing on being the true public servants they are supposed to be.

People here worry about the NWO and the military, when what we need to worry about are the thugs that hide behind being a "peace officer". These people, NOT ALL, have a mindset and authority complex that leads to abuse in far too many cases.

The officer in the video was a clear example of this type of mental set.

And as a side note, why did the body that hired him not do enough of a background check to find out about what was in his past? Was it because they wanted that type of person to be on the force?

In my own town of 700 plus people we have an out of control power hungry a-hole. But at the end of the month, he'll become the town dog-catcher. Three weeks ago he ran over a pedestrian, while driving at night with no headlights.He wants to find "crime" so bad that he lurks and skulks, and this was the result. (They can't fire him because of the lawsuit, and how firing him would look like an admission of guilt.)

Now multiply my small town by thousands. It is an epidemic that no one wants to admit to, least of all other cops. He would have made a fine brownshirt for the SA. And because they will likely settle out of court, with no criminal charges, he may move and come to a town near you.Will he use his past job references to become a cop in your area? Who knows.

Cop's do NOT see us as ' fellow citizens ', they see us as ' civilians ' like the military does. It makes it a lot easier to abuse and deny rights to someone that is not the ' same ' as you are, understand? It makes it really easy for a cop to use excess force, or lie on the stand, or deny rights..they see us as ' them ', all civilians to cops are just potential lawbreakers. If we are not guilty of something now, we no doubt are guilty of something else, and so we deserve the abuse they give us..see?

Justifying brutality and lying and misuse of authority is part and parcel of being a cop; it is unlike any other job. Cops are allowed to shoot you, and all they have to do is fill out some papers saying why they did it. Cops are allowed to lie, on the job, legally, and we wonder why so many people do not know their rights, and are too timid to use them.

Take for example the incident with this kid in the parking lot. He was frightnened and it showed. That allowed the cop to play him and demean him. That cop told HOW MANY LIES in that brief span of time? He kept threatening to take the kid to jail, but here never did. If a cop is going to take you, they take you, they do not use it as a bluff. You cannot bluff a guy with a royal straight flush, which is what a person who knows and uses his rights has for a hand. That kid thought that he had a pair and that the cop had a full house, and that was wrong. The cop was bluffing.

The kid made the mistake of PLAYING THE COP'S GAME , which is the old game of intimidation and lying. The cops LIE and say that the law gives them unlimited authority, such as when the cop in this case tells the kid " I can charge you for not obeying the lawful order of an officer ", because the kid would not answer personal questions, which is ANY question OTHER THAN IDENTITY.

The cops lies was this : If you do not give up your right to remain silent, then I can charge you with disobeying my order for you to talk . Of course that is a total lie; a LAWFUL order is the ONLY kind that we must follow, and to give up any rights is NOT a lawful order. The cop wanted the kid to think that ANY order that a cop gives is a LAWFUL order by virtue of the cop's authority!! But that is a total lie!!

Lawful orders can NEVER be ones that make us ignore or violate our Constitutional Rights, never. That cop should have been told this: " Officer, either charge me or release me; you are illegally detaining me from this moment on. I have nothing else to say, and your continued detention of me is not accomplishing anything. Lets get to the jail so I can post bond and call my attorney, or let me go. I am tired of hearing all of your lies and bluffs. I am calling your bluff, arrest me falsely so I can sue you or let me go now"

Usde your own words. of course, but NEVER show a weak hand. Let him know that you are NOT afriad, that really makes them uncomfortable and nervous about messing with you, and that you are not some punk to be insulted and demeaned. If that cop had been in my face spitting and scremaing, I would have just calmly said " Officer, you are spitting in my face for no reason, and now I will have to report this and go to the hospital and get an AIDS test; who knows what diseases you have".

Always stay calm and never raise your voice. Your being calm does several things : It allows you to say what you want to and no kore, and you are not escalating the event by yelling. If you are calm and cool, your words take on a greater meaning than if they were screamed. Of course you have to decide if the cop is going to get physical; if so back off and be as humble as necessary to get out of the situation, then by all means report it later and file suit.Do not get hurt unnecessarily by an out of control cop; but the majority do NOT want to have to explain why they used force unless they have a good case so most will not hit you if you take a stand; at worst they will find some Mickey Mouse charge and haul you in. Thats a pain but not the end of the world and it gives you the chance to sue them when the charges are dropped .

Each case must be dealt with individually. But in no case do you have to follow illegal orders such as having to speak and answer questions. The kid told the cop about his 4th and 5th amendment rights and for once the cop was stymied for a minute, he seemed amazed that a young kid would have the courage and the knowledge of the law and call his bluff. The cop backed down and used a few more threats about jail and then let him go. That cop KNEW that he would LOSE this whole case, and badly, if he arrested the kid. Why? Because the kid had PROOF!!

We MUST have proof because the cops lie all the time and they get away with it. Judges do not usually want to insult the cops by being dubious about thgeir testimony but if they get too crazy the judge has to step in and dismiss the case. Judges do NOT like people appealinmg obviously bad decisions because the judge above them wonders why it got to them in the first place. Bad cases are dealt with at the lower levels.

So, in summary, if you can get a camera and sound outfit for your car, do so. Stand up for your rights and do NOT let some cop bluff you. Do NOT be afraid of jail, it is NOT that bad> You will NOT be raped and killed by murderers before you can make bail and get out, especially for some petty offense . The FEAR of jail is the tool the cops use the most to imtimidate and bluff people; they make people think that some horrible fate awaits them at the station, and thats not true. You make a call and post bond or sign your name and go. Then your attorney rips the cop a new one and you sue him in Federal court for violating your rights.

Just do NOT show any fear to a cop, they feed on it, as seen in the video of the kid here; the kid whined and backed up every time the cop bluffed about going to jail. That cop had NO intention of arresting that kid, especially after he found out about a secure feed!! he KNEW he was busted and all he could do was bluster and bluiff and lie.

Use em or lose em!! Your rights, that is.

Reminds me of the case where that sheriff was exonerated from all charges after shooting that marine for "standing up" when he was ordered to.

Also, the King beating incident. Politicians have cops backs as they often interchange favors, so you'll rarely see a cop go to jail or ever be put to death for charges. In your dreams. Thankfully, I haven't had a bad experience with cops, always respectful. One time, Highway patrol lowered the charge for a traffic violation to ease the points on my license.

Crazyworld.

[edit on 16-9-2007 by rickzter]

i always try not to use "rash generalities"...and when you see this level of behavior in police officers you remember why we refer to these oxygen thieves as PIGS!
davidwwalters

that officer should be fired.

Interesting exchange. Unfortunately for most law abiding folks exchanges like this are getting more common as police departments lower there standards for recruiting and the upper management fails to respond to legitimate complaints.

Officers like this need to be removed and or prosecuted and departments need to stop covering this up and making deals in an attempt at limiting liability. Please read title 18 of the US code section 241 and 242 as a possible remedy for this type of abuse. The Grand Jury is your best resource to address these types of issues. We are doing this more and more with good results.

The Unknownuser

An anecdote:

I used to work in retail when I was in high school. One day, a punk was in the store stealing stuff and the security guard asked me to help her bust him. I wasn't big, but I was know for being pretty fast! The security guard (a female) was an off-duty police officer who worked security for the store as a part-time job. We grabbed the guy in the parking lot and turned him around to take him back in the store and presumably file a report and call the police. He bolted, and I chased him through the parking lot and nearby streets for almost 10 minutes. We left the fat security guard in the dust!

I finally gave up, and as I walked back I met up with the security guard. We continued walking, and she stopped and freaked out, said she had just seen the guy staring out the window of a bar we were walking past. She had me stand guard while she called in her buddies from the police station. They arrive lights blazing and pulled this guy out of the bathroom. She had sharp eyes to see him!

A few months later she told me not to answer my phone or my door, and arranged a two week "paid" leave of absence. They were wanting to subpoena me at the guy's trial. She had written the incident up that this guy had struck her in order to get away. I was walking behind them when he bolted, and I knew that was a lie. She knew I knew that was a lie, and told me just to "lay low and stay out of things".

The guy ended up getting 8 yrs for shoplifting and assaulting an off-duty police officer. He swiped a DVD.

Anyone that does't think cops lie to serve their own interests... wake up. Not all cops lie. But not all criminals broke the law either!

reply to post by Aneta



I used to be very naive. After i got out of the state indoctrination factories, i was full of all the conditioning about how all police are good and anybody that has a problem with them is bad.

Since then i have had many unpleasant run-ins with police that i really don't feel i deserved.

The next time i find myself on jury duty, ill certainly think twice about convicting somebody based on officer's testimony alone. They claim they're trying to fight crime but a lot of their efforts are counter productive. I'd rather let a guilty guy go free than convict somebody that's innocent.

[edit on 9/16/2007 by sp00n1]

I and my 5 year old daughter were both home in bed with the flu, and my son was at school and wife at work, when the fellow down the street who was a paraplegic in a wheelchair (whom I've taken to church several times) came down and my daughter answered the door. (I didn't hear anything). That night, my daughter told me that he molested her, so we called the police. (wrong). After the initial write-up of our complaint, we waited for some response. After several weeks of no word, I finally went to the police dept to find out what they were doing about it. I was given to speak with another officer who was allegedly assigned to the case, and he started speaking to me in one place, then took me aside and started interrogating me. After 30 minutes of intimidation, it came around to him directly asking me if I had sexually abused my daughter. I wanted nothing more to do with this BAST@ . If I had a nine mil then, I would have plugged his ugly face. No innocent person deserves to receive what I have from that pig. They want respect? LET THEM EARN IT!

Every time I have had an encounter with a cop they have ALWAYS LIED to me about something. The only liars in society more prevalent than a pigcop is a lawyer. _javascript:icon('')

I walked out of that police station with a changed attitude about pigs. I lost all respect for them. They earned it!

Dosent matter what country there are bad cops everywhere :/ To be honest from my observation I think USA cops are one of the erm nicest ones out there so be thankfull for at least that

Thats just human nature , the more power you get over something/somebody the more confident you feel. And cops (everywhere) have alot of power and if used badly but with a dose of intelect they can basicly do whatever they want and wont get into truble.

I think this cop should not only be fired but charged with threating a civilian and then make a poster trial out of it so that everybody can see him fall. This way people might start thinking twice before acting like idiots just because they think they can.