Joan of Arc died in her 50s.

Well Maybe.

This article claims that she was the kings illegitimate daughter and, that a double was burned at the stake.

Clicky, clicky....

I didn't know where else to put this, there's no "history" forum.

[Edited on 1/19/04 by NotTooHappy]

[Edited on 1/20/04 by NotTooHappy]

very interesting post, NTH.
what do you think about the story?

Originally posted by funlovincriminal
very interesting post, NTH.
what do you think about the story?

You know, I really have no idea. I know that Joan of Arc was a real person yet, I've always considered her story just that, a story.
If Margarita d"Champdiver (the real Joan of Arc) was really the kings daughter, I think that they would be able to test the remains to find out if it's her. It was long thought that the skull was that of his wife Charlotte but she died when she was 38. The skull came from a much older woman.
In short, I have no idea what the truth might be. I do know however, that Joan of Arc was the first feminist. I hate feminists.

Originally posted by NotTooHappy
[ I do know however, that Joan of Arc was the first feminist. I hate feminists.

Sorry, but you're off by a thousand years or more. Sappho was one of the earliest feminists, as was Hypatia, the librarian at the famed Library of Alexandria. Both were badly treated for saying that women were equal to men -- Hypatia was killed and the great Library at Alexandria was burned to the ground simply because she believed that women were the intellectual equals of men. And in that time, it was heresy; women were considered less valuable than animals and were thought to be somewhat stupider than your average dog.

The article is interesting, but implausible -- and it's in Pravda. Experience (by all of us) has led to the conclusion that Pravda is simply the Russian equvalent of the National Enquirer and other tabloids. Any second now, they'll start reporting that Jenna Bush is marrying BatBoy.

Joan of Arc was well known, and many famous men rode with her.

women were considered less valuable than animals and were thought to be somewhat stupider than your average dog.

Now you know why he hates feminists, for spewing this sort of nonsense.

(edit: quote syntax)

[Edited on 1-24-2004 by Thegl]

Reading that article, I'm unclear on exactly what evidence indicated the skull of the middle-aged female had to be that of Joan of Arc. The only thing that seems to be proven is that it wasn't the queen's or the king's....am I missing something?

It seems to me what the writer had to say was all hearsay and speculation, there is no real evidence for his theory, except a skull. I know that pravda is horrible source, but sometimes you still have to question their stories that sound somewhat legit.

Originally posted by NotTooHappy
Well Maybe.

This article claims that she was the kings illegitimate daughter and, that a double was burned at the stake.

Clicky, clicky....

I didn't know where else to put this, there's no "history" forum.

[Edited on 1/19/04 by NotTooHappy]

[Edited on 1/20/04 by NotTooHappy]

Wasnt Joan of Arc a maid??? She wasnt the king's daughter. I dont think there was a king. France was under Britsh rule. They fought back but most of France was controlled by the British. Joan of Arc was a maid not a king's daughter. And didnt she die not get killed????

omg... ok i know she wasnt the king's daughter, but she wasnt a maid either, i think she worked on her parents farm, either way she worked her way up the ranks, i dont know how, im not familiar with the entire story, but from wut ive heard she was killed-burnt at the stake.

Shattered OUT...

I think the "maid" confusion comes from the fact that she was referred to as "maid" or "maiden" because when she was leading France's armies, she was a young girl, barely a teenager, if memory serves. The term is used to denote that she was a virgin, and not that she cleaned castles for people.

And according to the legend, she was burnt at the stake for heresy for claiming that God had chosen her for the divine mission of protecting France from her enemies.

Heres a site about joan of arc
Joan Of Arc

Her father, Jacques D'Arc was a farmer. Joan's mother, Isabelle de Vouthon (also known as Isabelle Romee), was a deeply religious woman. So was Joan's father. Their family lived in Domremy, a village near the borders of Champagne and Lorraine, in northeastern France.

That article is not only poorly written but full of nonsense. I say that just based on what has been documented and written down...the article is speculation far removed from any established 'facts' (historical facts).

Jeanne d'Arc was NOT a mother or a wife...she was 19 years old when she was executed and so was 17-18 when leading the French Army for the crowning of Charles VII. She was NOT raised to be a soldier - she lived as all the other children in the area lived. She wore armor to protect her (sexually). Ironically enough, wearing male attire was the 'capital crime' she was ultimately executed for (just an excuse, at the core, though).

There are around 10,000 books of various manners of relating the story of La Pucelle...and there is information on many websites, too.

Do your homework.

Originally posted by NotTooHappy
Well Maybe.
Clicky, clicky....

Ah, I see you've found Pravda.

Pravda is the "Weekly World News" of Russia (and in this case an English language version.) They have all sorts of amusingly wild tales, most of which are made up by their staff.

I expect next year for them to announce that Joan of Arc was an alien hybrid and George Bush is actually a shaved sasquatch. And Paris Hilton was kidnapped by Greys.

Bottom line: if it came from Pravda, cite it for the amusement factor, but don't try citing it for the news factor.

Some of you may remember the Ripley's Believe It Or Not television series back in the 1980s, well before the version with Dean Cain. The original series was hosted by Jack Palance.

I remember them addressing this issue of Joan of Arc.

According to their research, which took viewers to the town of her burial, Joan of Arc was not burned at the stake and did not die in prison. Instead, she somehow managed to escape that (or was never caught in the first place) and eventually married. Years later in France she died of lung disease.

So maybe this article in Pravda isn't so far off the mark.

History often twists the truth in favor of the more romantic story.

[edit on 7-5-2007 by Paul_Richard]

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
So maybe this article in Pravda isn't so far off the mark.

Trust me, it IS. Swinging WIDE off the mark.

History often twists the truth in favor of the more romantic story.

Dear sir - there is absolutely NOTHING romantic or, in any way, exciting or stimulating, about being tried as a WITCH for doing your countrymen a service they could not accomplish on their own....and there is certainly NOT anything positive, during the incident, about being BURNED at the STAKE.

There were too many witnesses who saw her die...many, like what we read in the bible at the crucifixion, were left in a state of extreme anxiety and fear because her behavior at her death caused them to realize they had executed an INNOCENT soul.

Just like with Christ...only Joan of Arc is TRUE and not in question as to being perhaps contrived or invented...too many WITNESSES. Eye witnesses and written words that, to this date, no one has been able to even cause the public, in general, to question as to whether or not there REALLY was an 'historical Joan'. A mere 500 years ago, too.

There was. Ask Mark Twain. He KNOWS.

And it happened pretty much they way we've all heard. She asphyxiated, however, and died from massive fluid depletion because the her funeral pyre was way TOO big...thank GOD. The fire probably didn't even lick at her toes until 10 or 15 minutes after it started, if that, and it takes 8 minutes to die in the manner that she did.

Still. It SUCKED. But it DID happen.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
So maybe this article in Pravda isn't so far off the mark.

Originally posted by queenannie38
Trust me, it IS. Swinging WIDE off the mark.

Okay...so I am to believe you over a Ripley's episode.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
History often twists the truth in favor of the more romantic story.

Originally posted by queenannie38
Dear sir - there is absolutely NOTHING romantic or, in any way, exciting or stimulating, about being tried as a WITCH for doing your countrymen a service they could not accomplish on their own....and there is certainly NOT anything positive, during the incident, about being BURNED at the STAKE.

Dying for spiritual principle is always romantic. The greater the persecution, the greater the attraction.

I see that you have heard about and believe in the generally accepted view about the prophet Jesus/Issa/Juz Asaf.

His story would not hold the same weight if he did not get beaten up, whipped, incarcerated, and then crucified. (All of which is also questionable but that has already been discussed at length in other threads.)

Same idea.

The notion of Joan of Arc dying from consumption doesn't have the tourist draw when compared to her dying for God and country and in the name of freedom.

Originally posted by queenannie38
There were too many witnesses who saw her die...

You mean like the "many witnesses" who swear that the alien craft that crashed at Roswell, New Mexico in 1947 was merely a weather balloon?

Or the "authorities" who announced that John F. Kennedy was assassinated from the gunshot of a single bullet?

I remain unconvinced of the above just as I have yet to believe that Joan of Arc died from being burned.

But hey...we are here to discuss our views. No need to get excited over this.

You need not convince me of anything.



[edit on 7-5-2007 by Paul_Richard]

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Okay...so I am to believe you over a Ripley's episode.

It is immaterial to me. Believe what you like.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Dying for spiritual principle is always romantic. The greater the persecution, the greater the attraction.

Does that mean you are volunteering to do the same NEXT time?
Or do you mean that you KNOW because you have ALREADY either done it or witnessed your loved one doing such a thing?

I see that you have heard about and believe in the generally accepted view about the prophet Jesus/Issa/Juz Asaf.

Actually, no - I don't believe much of the 'accepted' view at all. Why trust eyes which did not and can not see?

His story would not hold the same weight if he did not get beaten up, whipped, incarcerated, and then crucified.

How do you KNOW?

The notion of Joan of Arc dying from consumption doesn't have the tourist draw when compared to her dying for God and country and in the name of freedom.

Tourism? You are getting things mixed up. Besides that...if she DID die a falsely accused innocent girl...then she DID. Period. What happened, happened. She didn't die for God OR for France. She died because they said she was a witch. If she died for the sake of anyone, it was Charles the VII.

There ARE heroes in this world, Mr. Ancient Mystic. OR don't you know that? I would think that you would realize that.

Originally posted by queenannie38
You mean like the "many witnesses" who swear that the alien craft that crashed at Roswell, New Mexico in 1947 was merely a weather balloon?

Actually, the 'many witnesses' say it was an alien craft. It is the government that said it was Project Mogul.

I remain unconvinced of the above just as I have yet to believe that Joan of Arc died from being burned.

She didn't die from being burned. She died from rapid fluid volume depletion. Regardless, your belief in whether or not it happened does NOT constitute any kind of validation whatsoever.

But hey...we are here to discuss our views. No need to get excited over this.

Who's excited? Once is enough.

You need not convince me of anything.

I wasn't trying to convince you of anything. Just correcting your errors and assumptions.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Dying for spiritual principle is always romantic. The greater the persecution, the greater the attraction.

Originally posted by queenannie38
Does that mean you are volunteering to do the same NEXT time?
Or do you mean that you KNOW because you have ALREADY either done it or witnessed your loved one doing such a thing?

I'll go with Curtain Number 2.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
I see that you have heard about and believe in the generally accepted view about the prophet Jesus/Issa/Juz Asaf.

Originally posted by queenannie38
Actually, no - I don't believe much of the 'accepted' view at all. Why trust eyes which did not and can not see?

So you are stating that you don't believe that Jesus died on the cross or that he is God or the Son of God.

Well...considering the mounting direct and indirect evidence pointing to him only being a prophet, I really can't blame you for that appraisal.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
His story would not hold the same weight if he did not get beaten up, whipped, incarcerated, and then crucified.

Originally posted by queenannie38
How do you KNOW?

Because people tend not to worship or even elevate prophets who did not die tragically but who instead lived to very old and transitioned relatively peacefully.

Issa/Jus Asaf Escaped Death On The Cross & Died In India At 80 After Proclaiming To Be The Galilean Messiah

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
The notion of Joan of Arc dying from consumption doesn't have the tourist draw when compared to her dying for God and country and in the name of freedom.

Originally posted by queenannie38
Tourism? You are getting things mixed up. Besides that...if she DID die a falsely accused innocent girl...then she DID. Period. What happened, happened. She didn't die for God OR for France. She died because they said she was a witch. If she died for the sake of anyone, it was Charles the VII.

Most people don't view her as having been an evil witch. Most view her as a heroic saintly figure. It is all a matter of public perspective. Which in turn makes her popular and, among other things, boosts tourism, books, memorials, etc.

Originally posted by queenannie38
There ARE heroes in this world, Mr. Ancient Mystic. OR don't you know that? I would think that you would realize that.

I would venture to state that there are actually many heroes in this world. The impact of any one of them is fully realized when experiencing a life review after death, whereby the opportunity is given to understand the scope of what has been done.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
You mean like the "many witnesses" who swear that the alien craft that crashed at Roswell, New Mexico in 1947 was merely a weather balloon?

Originally posted by queenannie38
Actually, the 'many witnesses' say it was an alien craft. It is the government that said it was Project Mogul.

Well...there were the soldiers and officers in attendance who all held up to the same official story. They were ordered to do that. Years later the truth slowly started to come out from those who were no longer afraid of governmental retaliation or who simply didn't care since they were old and close to death anyway. But you are right, there were various witnesses to the event who were townsfolk. The soldiers initially threatened them to remain silent on the matter.

I remain unconvinced that Joan of Arc was ever put on the stake to be burned in the first place. Which is not to imply that there were not people who were heroic. Many have been forced to die traumatically at the hands of the "authorities." For example, crucifixion was a common form of Roman execution.

Opinions vary and, as always, you may believe whatever you wish.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
So you are stating that you don't believe that Jesus died on the cross or that he is God or the Son of God.

Neither.

Most people don't view her as having been an evil witch. Most view her as a heroic saintly figure. It is all a matter of public perspective. Which in turn makes her popular and, among other things, boosts tourism, books, memorials, etc.

I realize that. But that is how people NOW view her; something far removed from what the transcripts of her trial state she was tried for.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
But you are right, there were various witnesses to the event who were townsfolk. The soldiers initially threatened them to remain silent on the matter.

Some still living, too. I live 70 miles from Roswell.

This is PRAVDA bunk.

Joan of Arc was a teenage farm girl. She fulfilled prophecy about a peasant girl who would lead France's army. Plenty of high ranking people, as well as countless others, saw her and followed her because she fulfilled the peasant girl prophecy.