A question about iran (open question)

all i read in topics on ATS these days (every day and month)
Iran is going to be blitzed then , nope they will be bombed then and so forth

and we have people here who say

1. Iran cant defend them selves as their military isnt a threat.
2. If they do defend them selves the US would Nuke them
and so forth

main questions

why cant a Nation defend them selves from open threats
but OK for a nation to invade others under faulse pretenses and pre-emtive strikes againt countries it belives harbours and funds terrorists when it does the same on a larger scale.

Who said that a nation can't defend themselves if attacked? I have no doubt whatsoever that should the U.S. attack Iran, it will defend itself. A better question would be, Can Iran win an armed conflict with the U.S.? The answer being, probably not. As for the concept of a nations military use being seen as terrorism, this idea just doesn't hold itself up. Now, If I (an American) and several people I knew took a plane to Tehran, then detonated explosives on our person to kill civilians with the only purpose being to cause fear in the Iranian populace, that would be terrorism.

[edit on 5-9-2007 by Zenagain]

[edit on 5-9-2007 by Zenagain]

Iran has nothing to fear from america,there bogged down in two theatres with no end in sight and to be frank the yanks these days couldnt even beat China’s Terracotta Army

Listen up all you American hating ATSers. I am sorry that you all feel the way you do. I love this country and everything it does and stands for. Do me a favor, don't come to our wonderful country. We have people from all around the world dying everyday to come to the USA. I have a better idea. Why don't all of you come stand at our borders (outside of course)and redirect these people to your countries. Without a doubt you would provide a better life for them. You would be doing the world good.

As for fighting wars..........Please. We could be in 6 theaters and not have a problem with Iran. If the world and its ANTI-AMERICAN media would allow us to fight wars the way our opponents do, these wars would have been over in a matter of weeks. If we fought wars the way wars are fought by our enemies.....wow what a statement that would send to potential enemies. If we fought the Iraq war the way the Iranian backed insurgents in Iraq are fighting it......pretty much all of them would be dead or back in Iran crawling under a rock.

Sorry to go off like that this, but just sick and tired of all the Anti-American crap from people, especially those within our GREAT COUNTRY!!!!!

I agree, much of what ive been reading on ATS ive noiced its all about blowing and nuking iran and how they will get beaten and bounded by America. I think the way that ive noticed things being written is appauling, People going on about how iran hasnt got a leg to stand on etc... how America will just total them in one swoop.

I think its time to show compassion, not try and start another war. After all what will Russia and China do to the US if any attack does happen, Let alone the uproar of the people in all the countries around the world.

Iran is a country full of westernised people as well as eastern people, people like you and me within it. Educated and well equiped to come back at anyone who wishes to start a war with them. Im not sure anyone realises how many Irainains there are!

To hear all this chanting of "war" it just makes me believe that you all are war hungry because everyone is waiting for it to happen, earging it to happen, manifesting it.


As for Amercia letting in people from other countries thats its choice and im sure the American dream is for anyone to attain. Depending on who wants to go and chase it and live it.

Right now im feeling angry that we as a people are not trying more to get rid of people in power who are not offereing us help in our own countries, who are controlling us, and now wanting us to want to let them control others!

Originally posted by noangels2006
Iran has nothing to fear from america,there bogged down in two theatres with no end in sight and to be frank the yanks these days couldnt even beat China’s Terracotta Army

Are you for real? How ignorant!

It isn’t an opinion but a FACT that the American military in Iraq is overwhelmingly effective. We have lost just shy of 4000 troops in the last few years and killed anywhere from 70,000 to 600,000+ depending on the source.

Just like in Vietnam we are killing, killing, killing and loosing relatively few of our own. We just keep getting better and better at it.

We don’t die very often (relative) we just kill until we get tired of killing and then go home and go hunting and watch movies about killing. After the movies and hunting, we enjoy a nice relaxing Xbox game centered on killing.

America is a death-culture; their deaths, not ours. We are despicable, bloodthirsty killing machines. We love our guns and our tanks and our bombs and our ability to kill without repercussions.

This is reality. It is a sick and twisted reality but a reality all the same.

And anyone who thinks Iran is going to provide any kind of serious problem for us needs to go to an American air show. We can lay down a million pounds of explosives in a week. They may have a pretty cool military for their region, but they are nothing compared to the might of the United States military. We don’t want to occupy Iran, we just want to shut her up.

Iran doesn’t know how to keep its mouth shut. We can’t let them continue to not cower, it is making us look bad. And to make it worse, anyone who doesn’t think that Iran is not (edit) arming those Iraqis needs to go bang their heads against a wall cause something is stuck inside. Iran would be crazy not to provide support to the Iraq resistance, but it is making things worse.

I know the mentality of those people. The biggest person in the group is the leader by default, like a pack of dogs. They think if they puff out their chests enough we will go away, like a male gorilla beating on his chest and stomach. What they don’t understand is that in our culture, size means nothing because the hunter with the gun does not fear the snarling gorilla, no matter how small the hunter is. In the U.S., I hate to say it but the smartest and often most evil person takes control of the group, not the biggest.

It makes me sad to say it but we will not let Iran go unpunished. Either through secret channels or with 1,000,000 pounds of ordinance, Iran's mouth will be shut.

Weather or not they can hit us back covertly remains to be seen.


[edit on 6-9-2007 by cavscout]

Originally posted by noangels2006
Iran has nothing to fear from america,there bogged down in two theatres with no end in sight and to be frank the yanks these days couldnt even beat China’s Terracotta Army

Yes, but that is more of a politcal failing aka Vietnam rather than a question of actual force on force. In an open conventional battle Im pretty sure the US would treat the Iranian armed forces much like a baby treat a diaper but............

Expect the same we got in Iraq. Inital vicotires followed by an impossible task of garrisoning a country 3 time the size of iraq with 3 times the population. Tehrahn alone has 10 million people. Add into that a population that will at best be passive and more likely opely hostile to oour presence.

Edit to add: I really think iran was was the real target whn we went into iraq. Iraq was to be used as a huge base for operations in iran. But the insurgency prevented that from becomming a reality.


[edit on 9/6/07 by FredT]

Originally posted by noangels2006
Iran has nothing to fear from america,there bogged down in two theatres with no end in sight and to be frank the yanks these days couldnt even beat China’s Terracotta Army

Really?If refering to iraq there is no way to defend against suicide bombers using kamikazi tactics.Ask israel on that one.As for actual fighting among real armies why dont you ask an iraqi soldier what it was like in desert storm and this recent....if you can still find the few still alive.

our guns and our tanks and our bombs

...in your head, in your head. they're still fighting...

sorry i couldn't resist. the cranberries immediately popped into mind on that one.

i'd like to point out that not everyone in america thinks like traderonwallst and cavscout. i get that some of the world dislikes the "personality" of america. i don't have an accurate sample of the population at large myself, but i'd like to think there are a lot of intelligent people here that don't go around shouting how great we are and why we should tell everyone else to be like us or we'll invade them. obviously one of those people didn't make it into office the past 2 times.

i'm not anti-american but i do find the current state of affairs appaling. american government is so riddled with deceipt, lies, and misdirection that it's completely impossible to sort it all out. one could argue that we should elect someone that will change the way things are if the average citizen is so displeased. what that person doesn't understand is that we only have the illusion of free choice in leaders. even if we did manage to sneak a good one into office, he'd likely be off'ed shortly afterwards by an unknown gunman on some grassy gnoll. hate the people that directly offend you if you like. some of us would rather mind our own business than meddle in the affairs of others. i think that notion gets misconstrued sometimes as ignorance when it's actually just humility. i could be wrong though. =)

Originally posted by an0maly33
i'd like to point out that not everyone in america thinks like traderonwallst and cavscout.

I’m sorry, did I not make myself clear when I said it was "despicable" and made me sad or did you forget your reading glasses?

I don’t think it right that we are this way, I don’t think it right that we do the things we do. I am more against war than anyone you know, I promise, what with having been to one and killing people and being blown up and living every day feeling like I am in hell and all.

But the reality is that we are bloodthirsty and powerful.

Reality is also that Iran doesn’t know when to shut up.

Does that make it right what we are about to do to them? NO.

Does that mean I will read ignorant posts and not deny said ignorance just because the poster and I agree that war sucks the US needs to chill out? NO.

Edit to add: After reading my first post i realized that I also said it was "sick" and "twisted." Just thought I would let you know since you may not have the reading comprehension thing down 100% yet. Im here for YOU, brother.




[edit on 6-9-2007 by cavscout]

The simple matter of the fact is, we need a good butt-kicking.
The current leadership is so compromised by hubris they think the US is in a position to rule the planet.

We're not qualified or capable of doing so, and if we try, we're going to get what's coming to, us sooner or later. Three hundred million people cannot expect to rule 6 billion - not without eventually being wiped off the planet.

Hopefully it's just another military disaster like Iraq, and not something like a city or two going up in a cloud of radioactive ash, that wakes us up to this fact.

[edit on 9/6/07 by xmotex]

cav - you're right. i did just glance at your post. i've been here long enough to consider you a very confrontational type of person. a lot of your posts generally rub me the wrong way so no, i don't pay much attention to them. i mentioned you in my previous post because you fit into the category of people i don't agree with, not necessarily because you shared traderonwallst's philosophies.

It isn’t an opinion but a FACT that the American military in Iraq is overwhelmingly effective. We have lost just shy of 4000 troops in the last few years and killed anywhere from 70,000 to 600,000+ depending on the source.

forgive me for reading this as "america is big and bad and no one can stop us"

Just like in Vietnam we are killing, killing, killing and loosing relatively few of our own. We just keep getting better and better at it.

We don’t die very often (relative) we just kill until we get tired of killing and then go home and go hunting and watch movies about killing. After the movies and hunting, we enjoy a nice relaxing Xbox game centered on killing.

America is a death-culture; their deaths, not ours. We are despicable, bloodthirsty killing machines. We love our guns and our tanks and our bombs and our ability to kill without repercussions.

forgive me for interpreting this as "all americans are conditioned to kill and be ok with it."

i can see the next line you mention that you're disgusted, but i stopped reading by that point.

i don't want this to be a counter-flame but you should tone it down a little instead of reving way up and blasting people.

I was not shouting out how great we were....I was responding to something that was said about Americans and the state of our armed forces.

Still the greatest country, still the greatest armed forces!

Originally posted by an0maly33
forgive me for reading this as "america is big and bad and no one can stop us"

Just out of curiosity, who do you think think can stop us? I'm not asking this to prove that we're big and bad. I just honestly don't believe there's a military on this planet that can even come close to ours in a head to head fight.

this doesn't mean that I think we can take on the world, but I don't see Iran posing much of a military threat. Iran, Russia, and especially China combined could definately pose a problem.

At any rate, this comparison between Iran's military and ours is no comparison at all. Ours is bigger, better, and more powerful, and if you don't believe that, I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

i wasn't disputing the point, i was questioning the attitude.

Originally posted by Jaruseleh

Originally posted by an0maly33
forgive me for reading this as "america is big and bad and no one can stop us"

Just out of curiosity, who do you think think can stop us? I'm not asking this to prove that we're big and bad. I just honestly don't believe there's a military on this planet that can even come close to ours in a head to head fight.

this doesn't mean that I think we can take on the world, but I don't see Iran posing much of a military threat. Iran, Russia, and especially China combined could definately pose a problem.

At any rate, this comparison between Iran's military and ours is no comparison at all. Ours is bigger, better, and more powerful, and if you don't believe that, I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

Rome was pretty powerful too. Remember how that one went? Whether the US falls today, or in 50 years time, isnt the point. And you may not intentionally want to sound arrogant, but damn, you do a really bad job of it.

[edit on 6-9-2007 by 3_Libras]

Originally posted by Jaruseleh

Just out of curiosity, who do you think think can stop us?

Russia could nuke us to oblivion and there's not a damn thing we could do to stop them.

And sure, we would certainly retaliate, but by that point it would be academic anyway.

We would be quite effectively put out of business by any serious Russian nuclear strike.

Originally posted by xmotex

Russia could nuke us to oblivion and there's not a damn thing we could do to stop them.

And sure, we would certainly retaliate, but by that point it would be academic anyway.

We would be quite effectively put out of business by any serious Russian nuclear strike.

Russia??? Willing to nuke the U.S. for Iran? Not something I believe in.

Me either, but that's not what I said

The poster indicated that no-one could stop us, I pointed out that the Russians certainly could if they wanted to.

However it's not in Russia's interest to stop us - if anything, Russia has a lot to gain from the US attacking Iran. For one thing, oil prices will skyrocket, making them lots of money. Plus there will be a huge market for Russian hardware to replace whatever we blow up.

Lastly, and most importantly, Russia's relative strategic position would be greatly enhanced by the US getting itself bogged down & weakened by another long, grinding, pointless war in the Persian Gulf.

Putin has to be laughing all the way to the bank watching us flailing around helplessly in the sandtrap in Iraq.
The possibility of watching us make the same mistake again must seem almost too good to be true

[edit on 9/7/07 by xmotex]

Originally posted by cavscout

Originally posted by noangels2006
Iran has nothing to fear from america,there bogged down in two theatres with no end in sight and to be frank the yanks these days couldnt even beat China’s Terracotta Army

Are you for real? How ignorant!

It isn’t an opinion but a FACT that the American military in Iraq is overwhelmingly effective. We have lost just shy of 4000 troops in the last few years and killed anywhere from 70,000 to 600,000+ depending on the source.

Just like in Vietnam we are killing, killing, killing and loosing relatively few of our own. We just keep getting better and better at it.

We don’t die very often (relative) we just kill until we get tired of killing and then go home and go hunting and watch movies about killing. After the movies and hunting, we enjoy a nice relaxing Xbox game centered on killing.

America is a death-culture; their deaths, not ours. We are despicable, bloodthirsty killing machines. We love our guns and our tanks and our bombs and our ability to kill without repercussions.

This is reality. It is a sick and twisted reality but a reality all the same.

And anyone who thinks Iran is going to provide any kind of serious problem for us needs to go to an American air show. We can lay down a million pounds of explosives in a week. They may have a pretty cool military for their region, but they are nothing compared to the might of the United States military. We don’t want to occupy Iran, we just want to shut her up.

Iran doesn’t know how to keep its mouth shut. We can’t let them continue to not cower, it is making us look bad. And to make it worse, anyone who doesn’t think that Iran is not (edit) arming those Iraqis needs to go bang their heads against a wall cause something is stuck inside. Iran would be crazy not to provide support to the Iraq resistance, but it is making things worse.

I know the mentality of those people. The biggest person in the group is the leader by default, like a pack of dogs. They think if they puff out their chests enough we will go away, like a male gorilla beating on his chest and stomach. What they don’t understand is that in our culture, size means nothing because the hunter with the gun does not fear the snarling gorilla, no matter how small the hunter is. In the U.S., I hate to say it but the smartest and often most evil person takes control of the group, not the biggest.

It makes me sad to say it but we will not let Iran go unpunished. Either through secret channels or with 1,000,000 pounds of ordinance, Iran's mouth will be shut.

Weather or not they can hit us back covertly remains to be seen.


[edit on 6-9-2007 by cavscout]

yawn,cry me a river sunshine and hide behind your delightfull logo
your armies not that good mate,havnt won a lot since the 2nd world war.

but please mentaly masterbate all you like at the thought of your oiled war machine ripping into dirty arabs and persians.

internet warmongers