Those dirty TERRORISTS and EVIL arabs.....

Originally posted by Zenagain
reply to post by Beachcoma

 

What's the deal with that? No idea..... We're it left up to me? Instead of all of this Afghanistan and Iraq foolishness, I would have invaded Saudi Arabia. It's actually funny to me how so many people say it's a "war for oil" and Imperialism etc etc, when were it that the best course of action would be the invasion of Saudi Arabia. But also, were it up to me, the next time America was attacked by Islamic terrorists, I'd pop off a nuke every month over an Arab country at random until they got their more radical brethren to calm the hell down. Guess there's a reason I'm not President.

Yep, cos you're *SNIP*. A nuke loving, *SNIP*.

This is definately not a one line post.

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Mod Edit - Snipped personal attack

[edit on 7/9/07 by masqua]

Originally posted by Zenagain
What's the deal with that? No idea..... We're it left up to me? Instead of all of this Afghanistan and Iraq foolishness, I would have invaded Saudi Arabia. It's actually funny to me how so many people say it's a "war for oil" and Imperialism etc etc, when were it that the best course of action would be the invasion of Saudi Arabia. But also, were it up to me, the next time America was attacked by Islamic terrorists, I'd pop off a nuke every month over an Arab country at random until they got their more radical brethren to calm the hell down. Guess there's a reason I'm not President.

Whoooa. That would be bad news for the world right there. An attack on Saudi Arabia would unite the entire Islamic world, that is, every country on the face of the Earth with majority Muslim population, and those countries biggest allies (Russia) as well, all against us. Us taking Mecca would be BIG-TIME trouble..

you wanna talk about a Jihad? lol .. that would be unreal, the sheer amount of muslims, government sponsored .. not this terrorist cell stuff, that would show up for combat would be insane.

and plus .. if we nuked anyone, Russia would naturally step up and use their leverage as the "second most powerful" to still assure us a mutual Nuclear destruction if we didn't immediately cease all nuclear attacks against whomever we launched on. if we didnt stop, Russia would be forced to launch their nukes at America. You'd start Armageddon.

Good thing Bush is in office and not you. I never thought id say that one!

Originally posted by runetang


Good thing Bush is in office and not you. I never thought id say that one!

Exactly, seems there's a lot of idiots these days who swallow whatever media source is closest.

It's people like this that are ruining the planet.

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by Zenagain
reply to post by Beachcoma

 

What's the deal with that? No idea..... We're it left up to me? Instead of all of this Afghanistan and Iraq foolishness, I would have invaded Saudi Arabia. It's actually funny to me how so many people say it's a "war for oil" and Imperialism etc etc, when were it that the best course of action would be the invasion of Saudi Arabia. But also, were it up to me, the next time America was attacked by Islamic terrorists, I'd pop off a nuke every month over an Arab country at random until they got their more radical brethren to calm the hell down. Guess there's a reason I'm not President.

Yep, cos you're an *SNIP*. A nuke loving, racist *SNIP*.

This is definately not a one line post.

Nuke loving? No But unfortunatly, the only concept radical Islam will ever understand is total unrestrained warfare.

Racist? Where in God's name did that come from? I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that nowhere in this thread did I resort to personal attacks upon anyone, in fact, I'm pretty sure that personal attacks are looked down upon here and I'm kind of wondering why you haven't been warned yet.

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Mod edit - snipped personal attack from quote

[edit on 7/9/07 by masqua]

reply to post by Blaine91555


Hey there. I'm a Canadian and can tell you what our plan for peace is. It is very simple. Leave them alone. That's it. We haven't been involved in a conflict that we haven't been asked to take part in since the US invaded our country in 1812. We don't declare war or invade other countries, but we will help in the form of training and food stuffs if the government of that country wants assistance.
We Canadians figure that the people and government of a country are the best people to determine how that country is to be run. In the case of Iran, they had a revolution that disposed the Shah and installed a theocracy. They obviously thought that this was the best course of action to take. If they change their minds in the future, they will do what they deem best and take what action they think will better their government.
The first Gulf War, we participated at the request of the Kuwait government to aid in repelling the invading Iraqi army. Once they were out of Kuwait territory we stopped pursuing them and assisted in the rebuilding of the Kuwait infrastructure that was destroyed by the Iraqi army.
Every conflict that we have been involved in has been a NATO operation or a UN operation. We spent decades standing guard in Cyprus and the Golan Heights. We prefer to do peacekeeping missions and dislike armed aggression because it interferes with a countries sovereignty.
That being said, we are some of the most feared and revered soldiers in the world.

Originally posted by Zenagain
I notice that your location lists you as living in the U.S. Since you are so supportive of the "freedom fighters" of the Middle East, put your money where your mouth is and move there. I think you'll find that they don't welcome your support. Unfortunately, you'll discover this right around the time you are being beheaded by them. Have a great day.

how i 100 percent agree with u, most of those "Freedom fighters" in the middle east are crazy extremist... most of them are willing to die for their god allah then get help from Americans... i also dont like the australian government following America's ass into Iraq... but meh i think the only casualty was Private
Jenkins which accidentally shot himself in the head while cleaning his beloved pistol. Its strange how every nation or culture has their own way of thinking, Napoleon totally underestimated the russians and he took moscow and thought it was all over but the way they think was just different. unlike other nations where losing a capital was a devastating blow to the whole nation and they would've surrendered. on the other hand the japs would be crazy fanaticss fighting on since every piece of Jap soil is considered sacred ground. These Freedom fighters in middle east nations are underestimated by the US Forces... IEDs at the cost of 50 bucks could destroy a million dollar APC or Humvee, these guys have also gotten smarter with these IEDs. i dont know what drive these people to go blow themselves up turning into billion pieces of little meat chunks... i heard a comedian making fun of those 911 extremist which blew up the WTC. "those men was willing to do it because they believe that Allah would give them 10 beautiful ladies"

reply to post by IAF101


Lest we all forget, Nations do not have rights. Individuals have rights, nations do not. A Nation does not have the right to success or peace, nor does it have the right to exist.

Nations exist because of the people within them. We, as the United States, make no illusion that we support Israel. Whether Israel is committing acts of terrorism against the muslims in the region or not, we almost universally try to sue for the muslims to be more cooperative.

There is such a thing as too much bad blood and history between people's. The west an the middle east have, historically, been adversaries because of the interference the west promotes in the region.

As for Pearl Harbor, The United States Government had long been seeking a means to enter the war, as the U.S. Citizenry was against becoming involved (Due to the era of Isolationism that evolved out of WW1). The entire Pacific Fleet knew to be aware that the Japanese might attack at any given time, and while the Ambassadors from Japan might give the impression we didn't expect an attack, those chomping at the bit to get back into the war to relieve the depression could not wait for an attack to occurr.

Whether this makes the U.S. culpable is another matter entirely, but in many senses Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen.

As to answer why Israel has not done as you proposed, there is a point in time where an underdog becomes a bully. If Israel actually committed to doing what they would like to do, the world would turn against them and the United States would be caught in the middle. So it is beneficial to have them considered a weak state that depends on the good will of Big Brother US.

The united states, since about the Sixties, has been on an imperialist binge. Imperialism does not mean directly ruling a country, it can mean merely occupying it with an armed, militant force and exporting values and ideals unique to your country. It means acting as a cultural virus, and pummelling anyone that decides to contest your sovereignty to do so. The romans did not necessarily govern all their empire, nor did the Persians. In many cases of imperialism, the nations are left to govern themselves but owe something to the nation who claims them as their territory; We, the U.S., have military bases in how many countries in the world? Compare that to how many countries there ARE in the world? Can you still say that we do not put forward a militant, imperialist face to those places? We stay where we do not belong.

reply to post by TheColdDragon


Your theory that nations do not have rights is your own concoction which doesnt make sense. Nations do have rights, and also they have duties. When a nation does not fulfill its duties to its people or the international community it becomes a disruptive influence in the world. Every nation in accordance with its own ability has some rights and duties that help in furthering world peace and security.

The whole idea or the fact that Israel is actually committing terrorism is left to open debate as to what your individual idea of terrorism is. So you stating as if it were fact is disingenuous to say the least. And yes, the US supports Israel but it also has historically done much more for the Arab world than for any other group of people so far.

You're attempt to rationalize something far more nefarious as mere "bad blood" between the west and the middle east is wrong. The French and the Germans have far more "bad blood" in that respect yet there is no evidence that the French have resorted to barbarianism is there. Also, what do you mean meddling? The USA has done everything it can to secure its interests as have the Arab states. If they mean giving Israel aid to ward off the Arab hordes from trying to gut every Jew in the middle east, that is a service to humanity and the USA is proud for doing so. We cannot allow the irrational ambitions of a one group take precedence over the greater good.

Coming to Pearl Harbour, again you present some confabulated conspiracy theory as fact! The US was reluctant to enter the war because it had little to actually do with us and we were not ready for a war on that level. Yes, there may have been some apprehensions about the Japanese but nobody was ready for all out war. You're confabulation that the pacific fleet was ready but somehow let 4000 odd sailors die for dramatic effect is insulting to all the men and women who died and also the families of the dead. They died in an unprovoked attack on the US fighting for their country.

Taking up your reasoning for why Israel doesnt attack its neighbours as something done so that the 'world doesnt turn against them' . Now you say on one hand that Israel is a bully that terrorizes the Arab world and the US which is yet another "imperialistic" power gives it a free pass to do what it likes and then you say they are afraid of 'what the world thinks' ?? That is a fallacious argument because if the US being the worlds sole superpower is on some "imperialistic binge" as you say then why would Israel and USA care about what the rest of the world thinks?? You have the worlds pre-eminent power at your back and you are afraid to flex your muscle just because you think that the Euro's or the Russians are going to think bad of you ? Especially when you characterize Israel as a "bully" ?? Your argument defeats itself because it makes no sense. If one has the ability to secure their own borders and vanquish their enemies with the help of a great power than why would you stop short and still be faced with constant attacks on your towns and cities endangering your people day after day ? That is illogical like you argument.

Simiarly your argument about the US and its military bases are illogical. The Euros wanted US bases to help them fight off the Russians, the Japs wanted US bases to help keep them safe agaisnt the North Koreans and the Chinese, the S.Koreans were the same. Saudi Arabia, Oman, Baharain all accepted US military bases for their protection. It wasnt the US who forced it down their throats, it was these countries that asked for it. And they are happy to have it. As for our culture and values being exported that is not imperialism as we are not "enforcing" our culture on anybody, people across the world are welcoming our culture and our values as their own. Just look at Japan, they have accepted American culture with all its trimmings and yet still hold on to their own culture and traditions and values . The effect of our culture is not our responsibility but the responsibility of those who wish to embrace it. IF they dont want to loose their culture they should work towards that and it is their problem not the US. When it comes to freedom, democracy and civil liberty, those things are inalienable rights for all civilized human beings and those cultures that seek to embrace them are wise to do so, that is not imperialism, that is called setting a standard. As always if any other nation has a culture attractive enough or values worth emulating then people are free to emulate their culture and values. The US doesnt impose anything un natural on any people. Your assertions are fabricated and are little else than propaganda. The USA has never made claim to any territory anywhere in the middle east or Europe or anywhere that wasnt a part of it already. US military bases are present in very few countries in the world if you take number of any significance. They are there to preserve the peace by making it inadvisable to attack the US. That is a service to the humanity that the US does in order to maintain world peace. If anybody else had the power or the resources to offer a significant deterrent they are free to do so. The US has never stopped anybody. Far from imperialism we have always been a nation that liberates nations from tyranny, war and oppression and brought them democracy, freedom and prosperity. Also, by maintain peace we serve our own interests as well as the regional interests and thus it is imperative that we continue to stay and provide security to more conflict zones.

American imperialism as you know it is just a fabrication of an unimaginative mind.

[edit on 7-9-2007 by IAF101]

reply to post by IAF101


What, in particular, are the rights a nation holds?

Please Cite where I said Israel is committing terrorism. Are you confusing me for someone else, friend?

More Nefarious than bad blood? Would you prefer long fomented seething hatred between western culture and middle eastern culture? I did not mean to trivialize the tension between the Muslims and Jews in the Middle east.

If I might ask, do you propose that the Palestinians deserve the treatment Israel and the U.S. has given them?

America serving its own interests is meddling, particularly when it is in direct interference with a countries own sovereignty or self-determination. Is that not, definitionally, meddling?

If a nation cannot stand on its own merits, and secure its own borders without the assistance of the biggest superpower in the world in order to sustain their existence, they don't rightly deserve to be a nation. I would even argue that they are not a nation, as they lack the appropriate individuation a nation requires. You yourself make it sound as if without the United States, Israel would be wiped off the face of the map by the muslim hordes.

As for Pearl Harbor, Have you done any research on the events leading up to Pearl Harbor? The United States informed the entire Pacific Fleet to expect an attack from Japan. They were uncertain where it might come from, but they knew the Japanese were considering it.

As for why Israel or the United States cares what the rest of the world thinks, it is unwise for anyone to ignore consideration of consequences for their actions, and even for the mightiest nation, there are consequences that need considering. Of course, at some times those considerations get ignored, to the detriment of the world as a whole.

As for the bases around the world, and the desire from other countries; Whether we are welcome imperialists or unwelcome imperialists, imperialism is imperialism.

You are right that there are certain inalienable human rights for all mankind, but we are not the nation to enforce those rights. Democracy is a hollow failure if it is not seized upon by those who want it. An installed democracy is NEVER a true democracy, as having it installed by a foreign power means it is not OF the people.

The United States has historically been known to install U.S. Friendly dictators and leaders who will participate with U.S. interests around the globe. Where some countries welcome us in, others do not.

So, when you say "The U.S. Does not impose anything un natural on any people," You are ignoring well documented History. Ask a serviceman who served from the 60's to the 90's if the U.S. ever installed Dictators when a country took a turn that didn't benefit the U.S.

You state that the bases are there throughout the world to dissuade countries from causing trouble, which is the Policemen of the World mentality. We may be a country that "Liberates" other countries, but there's been many places that never wanted to be "Liberated". I could "Liberate" your music collection and install my own music, I'm pretty sure we would not have the same tastes in music.

Peace through War is not Peace at all. Peace through aggression, or force of aggression, or insinuation of aggression is not peace at all.

reply to post by SimiusDei


Go live outside US for 10 years. You eat too much and way too pampered.

reply to post by SimiusDei


you mean DIRTY arabs and EVIL terrorists, no?

dirty TERRORISTS and EVIL arabs doesn't make as much sense!

reply to post by Zenagain


I am rather sure it comes off as racists to claim you want to randomly nuke arab countries. You would be a worse president than Bush or Cheney, at least they have some finesse and planning to their hate and discrimination.

I am not saying you are, but you have to be able to see how it can look that way.

What if they took the same train of thought? Why don't they randomly nuke states until we get our extremist politicians and profiteering companies under control?

Who did you hate before arabics and islamists? How long have you despised them so?

To be honest, if you hate Islamic people, then by relation, you must hate Jewish and Christians. They are all children of Abraham, or have a covenent with the G-d of Abraham.

If you had a bunch of foreign soldiers occupying your city/state or bordering city/state ... would you sit idly by? Would you go up to them and say thank you for killing innocents while you try to catch a boogeyman ... thanks for putting my country in turmoil by taking out our corrupt political leader that you put in office, you supplied arms and power to, ... we couldn't have been free to die without your help.

I know what you are trying to say, I just think you are not making your points as well as you mean.

Supporting our troops, protecting our citizens is best done by bringing them home to their families. Imagine, if tomorrow, we were invaded by anyone ... even Mexico ... do we have the troops and equipment to properly defend ourselves against an organized army? Remember, we are not allowed stockpiles of ammunition. We are not allow semi-automatic weapons. How many innocents would die from an battalion of AK wielding soldiers when we are trying to empty and reload a six-shooter ... or even a 9mm clip. I would say quite a few. How few soldiers wearing full body armor and using proper weapons would fall to tragedy in the same scenario, if about a quarter million troops were here with their equipment? Oh, and yes, they could have full body armor if we weren't spending trillions on a fake war. The thing is ... we may be invaded, but it may be to liberate us from a corrupted government. Step back and look for the real enemy when that happens ... don't just eat the propaganda they feed you.

How long will 'terrorists' be a threat? Who will be next when arabs and islam is no longer an enemy? We already nuked Japan, had a cold-war with Russia, fought the middle-east a few times ... not too many places left, huh?

Originally posted by FreeThinkerIdealist
To be honest, if you hate Islamic people, then by relation, you must hate Jewish and Christians. They are all children of Abraham, or have a covenent with the G-d of Abraham.

This is absolutely wrong. Islam is NOT the same religion as Christianity no matter what Mohamad would like us to believe.
Its too massive to go into here but Here is an article that says why not: www.stopsharialaw.net...

Originally posted by FreeThinkerIdealist
Imagine, if tomorrow, we were invaded by anyone ... even Mexico ... do we have the troops and equipment to properly defend ourselves against an organized army?

Yes, The US army has 507,082 soldiers and the national guard has 333,177 soldiers and add to that the army reserve has 189,005 soldiers. Now this is the Army alone. Then you have the Air National Guard, the Coast Guard, the local police departments, the Marines, the Air Force, etc and dont forget the Red Necks. So if someone were to invade the USA even with out deployment in IRaq we would have nearly 250,000 soldiers ready on the ground in the US and within a month or so at least 2-3 million soldiers on the ground including the civilians from the local militias. As of recent numbers the total number of troops deployed in IRaq is 168,000 including all branches. Then Afghanistan might be around 50,000 more or less. So totally around 220,000 troops are actively engaged as of now out of more than a million soldiers who could be brought into service in total.

In the US you are not allowed to stockpile ammunition but you are allowed to stockpile gun powder, black powder.

reply to post by SimiusDei


personnally i dont even read your ropoganda past the first couple lines. all your threads sound the same, America bashing. i think you just like to stir the pot remind me of a kid i use to know that liked to hit a wasp nest with a stick and then run...are you running little boy?
why dont you take your America bashing threads to avobe politics since it doesn't have a conspiracy attached to it.

I'm pretty sure Pearl Harbor wasn't a terrorist attack.. it was an act of war. World War II was a war y'know.. And why would the US, staying true to Isolationism, want to join a war.. that they've been keeping out of for so long until that point?

reply to post by SimiusDei


"I just found it quite odd that I have 3 contradictory responses and 2 of those 3 came from people with "pro Israel" signatures."

_____________

I don't have any supporting stickys under my name. But you may add me to the list ie: Support Israel.

Crush Terrorism at its base before the fungus grows. These murderers are the scum of the earth and should be dealt with using all force necessary. I hold the Countries responsible for raising the 'idiots' and promoting hatred of the west just as guilty as the idiots doing the premeditated killing of innocent people.

Show no mercy toward terrorists, terrorist cults under the guise of religious belief, or the people funding their cruel operations.
If it's Israel which inflicts the first blow or the USA decides it's time to act rather than wait impending disaster at home from foreign terrorist movements-- get on with it. If it's inevitable, no sense in waiting for supporters of terrorist countries to deploy advanced defensive weapons in areas to be neutralized.

Dallas