Those dirty TERRORISTS and EVIL arabs.....

reply to post by Beachcoma


What's the deal with that? No idea..... We're it left up to me? Instead of all of this Afghanistan and Iraq foolishness, I would have invaded Saudi Arabia. It's actually funny to me how so many people say it's a "war for oil" and Imperialism etc etc, when were it that the best course of action would be the invasion of Saudi Arabia. But also, were it up to me, the next time America was attacked by Islamic terrorists, I'd pop off a nuke every month over an Arab country at random until they got their more radical brethren to calm the hell down. Guess there's a reason I'm not President.

Originally posted by SimiusDei
reply to post by Zenagain

 

Let me state that I in NO WAY agree with our troops being killed over there by the insurgents. However, I place the blame on the United States government (who PUT them there) and NOT solely on the arabs. I am of the opinion that we should have never been there in the first place and we most certainly shouldn't be there now.

When one stops to really think about it, if the tables were turned and they invaded our country, we would be fighting like hell - greasy tactics and all. We would be proud of it and determined to kick their a$$es back to their own country. Would we think of ourselves as insurgents? No. That is exactly how they feel about us and rightfully so. One man's insurgent is another man's freedom-fighter or patriot. Any other characterization is stricly propaganda.

Don't misinterpret me I also support our troops and in more ways than just putting a crappy magnetic ribbon on my car and saying the Pledge of Allegiance. I support their need to make decisions on the ground that save their lives and not be dictated by an ignorant Congress and an ego-maniacal President. I support whatever decision the military leaders determine to be the best way to un-a$$ the area without losing more troops.

It seems that America is always fighting the last war instead of the current one. The PTB have totally mired us in another overseas debacle. Only this time instead of the boogie-men being communists they are terrorists or insurgents. It isn't an honorable war or a clearly defined war. It only serves their own purposes of making money off of oil and the military industrial complex. Now, if they had captured OBL, crushed Al Quada in Afghanistan and come home - that would have been honorable - but George had more selfish plans.

I completely agree with the OP's premises and I truly think anyone who cannot see the reasoning and logic behind it is suffering from the conditioning tactics of the PTB. The minds of the majority of the people are cluttered with all of the irrelevant or unimportant issues and information the mainstream media overwhelms us with. People would rather hear about celebs than the brutal reality of war. They would rather shop than sacrifice. They delude themselves that its better to have the fighting somewhere else than right here. But really the war is already won here - the American people surrendered control to the PTB long ago. They only think they are free.

More ATS members need to speak out like the OP and not be afraid of being shouted down as unpatriotic or politically incorrect.

Originally posted by SimiusDei
This "war" we are in now, is a war for profit and imperialism. Nothing more, nothing less.

How anyone can say this current government cares about our national defense when both of our borders are WIDE OPEN baffles me.

This would certainly seem to be the case. I get the feeling were are paying taxes to our own detriment.

Originally posted by SimiusDei
Just for s*s and giggles.....why don't I turn the tide a bit.

Since you guys love Israel so much, why don't you go there and help them defend the holy land?

Jasn

A LOT of Americans are ! Unfortunately, you can only make Aliah if you are of jewish decent so that excludes a vast majority. But nonetheless, the war against Israel is not just on the battlefield it is peoples minds, ideas and the media. This asymmetrical war needs "other" elements too. So yeah, people are fighting for the holy land in a way, fighting against scurrilous insults in cyber space.

Originally posted by SimiusDei

Originally posted by IAF101
I completely disagree with everything you've said.

EDIT: I apologize, I just saw your "Israel I stand tall with you." banner sig. I suppose that explains why you disagree with me. Though, I would still be interested in you explaining your disagreement.

Also, as a note, I'd rather stand proud than tall.

[edit on 5-9-2007 by SimiusDei]

You are too simplistic, quick to judge and your facts are skewed. I do not care about your slander towards Israel as much as the perversion of fact history and truth that you seek to push as a logical argument.

Pear harbor brought on by our own government ? give me a break !? Thats an insult to every American sailor and their family who died fighting the japs and those who died in pearl harbor. You might even go so far as to rationalize that 9/11 and all terrorist bombings are brought on by the victims only. Is this the stream of your rational thought? Ivory tower thinking.

Imperialism, capitalism blah blah.. that is spewed over and over again from the ramparts of earlier mentioned tower. You should open a history book and take a look at what imperialism is.
If America were imperialistic we would have never sought to give the IRaqis a government. We would still be ruling, most of Europe, Japan, Philippines, South Korea and maybe even Vietnam; had we used the bomb on those people. But guess what ? All these states have their own governments. Even IRaq which is in shambles has a government which is elected by the IRaqi people. Which is remarkable considering that only after a few years after their liberation from dictatorship they've had a chance to vote in a country where democracy has been dead a long time.
If America were the guard dog of Israel as you try desperately to prove, why has Israel not taken over syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and the rest of the middle east ? I'm sure they have the military power to do so and plus as we are their gaurd dogs this should be quite possible shouldnt it ? Yet it is the Israelis who even today in their small corner of the world face rocket attacks on the schools and houses daily when they reciprocate by giving Gaza back and take their own settlers back by force!

All that you have claimed to be a "logical argument" is nothing but your propaganda that you think is logical where the facts on the ground do not support any of this.

I could show how each of your statements are absolutely wrong with the facts but that would mean I would be required to write a treatise, which I dont have the time for sadly.

And NO, I dont see this case as a "with us or against us", because you dont know what the "with us" stands for and hopes to achieve. You dont know what the repercussions of "against us" mean. You are IMO of the confused, brainwashed, idealogical, paranoid simpleton that needs to step back and understand apples from oranges. no offense .

As for all the "facts" of that you might want, I have gone over this topic over and over again on ATS, they may be present in their archives.

*About the stand tall: Do you know what 'stand tall' means ? Its an adverb, go look it up!

Originally posted by Zenagain

Originally posted by Vixion
I heard a saying a while ago which was simple and to the point.

One mans terrorist, is another mans freedom fighter.


Take Care, Vix

Agreed. It's sad about those "freedom fighters" in the London tube bombings though, eh?

you yanks bank rollled freedom fighter in Ireland for a long time
right back at you sunshine

reply to post by IAF101


Apparently you didn't notice the "I GUESS" part and where I said I would still enjoy the actual explanation.

I don't feel it's a closed minded or judgmental thought to think that one who has "I Support Israel" in their signature might possibly be disagreeing with me because I am displaying anti-Israel sentiments.

That's exactly the reason I put that I still looked forward to an explanation. I was and am open to the fact that I may be mistaken in my feelings as to why Iwe are at a disagreement.

Jasn

I like this thread cause you raised some valid questions.
I think some Americans still daze in the "we saved your ass during WWii" phrase, however they are forgetting one simple thing... none of the heroes from back then are currently changing the world now. They are all lodged in retirement homes looking forward to the next annual "let's remember WWii".

Don't get me wrong, I have respect for them coming to aid us back then. But the youngsters of today... even the middleaged people are not responsible for that effort back then. They do NOT have the right to use this hindsight as a catchphrase going around saying "you should be glad we are around", because it's a whole new ballgame now!

Having said this, I do not want to judge the average Joe, but it's pretty damn hard no to when we from Europe see the kind of people you elect into office thus becoming the most powerful men in the world, Bush being the worst man ever to have been "voted" in... twice even! I mean... what were you thinking?
I know not a single person who can remember a single thing that by them could be classified as a good thing he has done. We are affraid of the man... hell, I'm even more affraid of that man than the president of Iran.

So can Americans be viewed as terrorists? Not as single persons... definately not. But in a greater whole, sure you can. Because doesn't your constitution say that you elect you own leaders? That makes you and you responsible for their actions...to some degree.
But it is also the lack of standing up and saying "enough is enough!" after all the hatred... all the fear that the American administration of the last 5-6 years has put into not only it's own people but also the people of the world.

Stepping beyond another mans doorstep without being invited is a sign of agression. And being christian doesn't excuse this even though the ol' testament somewhere mentions an eye for an eye.
The way the middleeastern situation has turned out is nothing short of a catastrophy. I can't help thinking how it would have turned out had we all just left them alone to sort it out themselves.

I mean, you Americans managed to push of the English didn't you? Who's to say the people of Iraq or Iran etc. couldn't accomplish the same if given the time?

Originally posted by Zenagain
As for profiteering, lets look at how Saudi Arabia, (And to a lesser extent other Persian Gulf nations) make billions off of the selling of oil to America and other western nations, and then turn around and use those billions to sponsor terrorism against......You guessed it! America and the other western nations.....

That doesn't work that way. When, for example, Saudi Arabia sell, lets say, 1 billion worth of oil to US the US doesn't actually pay 1 billion to Saudi Arabia. Saudis have to buy certain items from US like planes, tanks, foreign debt, luxury goods ect, ect... They also sign contracts with certain big western corporations for, lets say, construction or investments...

The amount of actuall "cash" Saudis receive is not that big.

Originally posted by Zenagain
Do I think the Palestinians got the short end of the stick with the whole "settling of Israel" thing? Yes......

Understatement of the year.

If it were a matter of simply "settling" then I wouldn't be as disgusted as I am about the whole affair.

To clarify something you commented on earlier, fifteen of the nineteen alleged hijackers were supposedly from Saudi Arabia. The place we're about to give a multi-billion dollar arms deal to.

I use "alleged" and "supposedly" because to this day the FBI cannot concretely verify the identities of all of the hijackers...even still...why further arm the nation where the alleged radicals that pulled off a massive attack originated from? Why focus on Iran and Iraq? Are we really concerned about radical Islam or the Zionist agenda?

"Israel controls the Senate, We should be more concerned about the United States' interests."

- J. William Fulbright
chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, 1973.

Originally posted by IAF101
Pear harbor brought on by our own government ? give me a break !? Thats an insult to every American sailor and their family who died fighting the japs...

Hmmm....

The term Jap is used in English as an abbreviation of the word "Japanese." English speaking countries differ in the degree they consider the term offensive. Most people of Japanese descent in these countries consider it offensive.

In Japanese dictionaries, the term Jap is only defined as a disparaging term used against the Japanese people; this is also the case in many English language dictionaries.

"Jap" was a derogatory term during the war, more so than "Nip." Some in the United States Marine Corps also tried to combine the word "Japs" with "Apes" to create a new description, "Japes", for the Japanese.
Wiki

You speak of bigotry and bias against Israel also you're avatar says "confess hate".

Anything you care to own up to?

I think if ATS were to completely shut this forum down to new topics it would make no difference. Reading the old topics would be exactly the same as reading the current topics such as this one. The same old piece of flavorless gum chewed over and over again.

Every day a new Hate The United States, Hate Israel or Hate The Middle
East Thread starts up with the exact same rhetoric. Nothing new is ever discussed and nobody's minds are ever changed. To what end? Serving what purpose? To prove the real problem is the World is filled with HATE! I think we all know that! Until the talk turns to how do we overcome Hate and learn to live together what is the point?

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Until the talk turns to how do we overcome Hate and learn to live together what is the point?

Totally agree with you there. Problem is, every time someone opens a thread to promote understanding, someone strolls in and starts a hate-fest. Others will join and those on the other side of the fence will come in to counter. Then it gets nasty.

People suck.

Good thread. Good discussion. Several good points on both sides.
We need more such threads.

Originally posted by Zenagain ..... After that whole wacky Holocaust thing.....

That may be the most disrespectful thing I've ever seen written here.

Originally posted by marg6043
Radical Islam exist the same way that in the name of expansion of nations and invasion, the middle east has been invaded by European nations through the history and now a western nation is invading the area.

Is it just me, or does this make no sense?
It could very well be me, but I don't know.

reply to post by Blaine91555


I would agree. However, this thread was not a "hate" anyone thread. I posted this thread to promote UNDERSTANDING, not hate.

As much as I don't care for the Iranians or the Arab people in general, they seem to be perpetually receiving the s*** end of the stick these days and a TON of undue and undeserved hatred.

I personally find the beliefs of certain sects in the middle east to be DISGUSTING, however, they should have every right to practice those beliefs within their own society without having to deal with Israel and their attack dog.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't recall the last time the United States was invaded or attacked by Iran or Iraq. So, WHY ARE WE THERE? Iran's beef is with Israel and their beef is VERY valid. I say, let them fight it out and bring our American brothers and sisters home.

That is their war, so let THEM fight it.


Maybe the world would be better off if the entire middle east was turned to glass before we woke up in the morning.


Either way, until Israel gets the same criticism that Iran gets, I'll continue to say that Iran is getting a bad rap.

They are NO WORSE than Israel.


Jasn

reply to post by subject x


"That may be the most disrespectful thing I've ever seen written here."

It's called sarcasm.....sorry if I trampled on your sacred cow or something. Are you saying I should show respect to The Holocaust? It was one of the most atrocious events in Human history......

reply to post by Zenagain


Sometimes certain post are better to just let them be . . . many people just can not deny ignorance. not matter how well or eloquent you are trying to brighten their minds.

Originally posted by Beachcoma

Originally posted by SimiusDei

Why has the word "terrorist" become synonymous with the words "islamic" and "arab"?

It's called conditioning. It works with animals like cats and dogs. More so with dogs. People can be dogs, too.

Pardon me, I have had a few glasses of wine so I hope this makes sense........

I believe.. that the word Terrorist has become so well connected with "Arab" is because it just so happens all the terrorist attacks have been conducted by at the least, arabs.. or islamic converts from other races.......

Of course its a conspiracy site, yada yada, so if you buy the original story then that swhy...

Now...

If you want to add in if its racist or not.. well first off no.. because the majority of the terrorist targeting the west as of late are islamic and predominantly arab.. it makes sense to profile..

However..

When the Irish bombed the UK and so forth.. we did not begin associating all IRA, Irish or Catholics as Terrorist. In fact.. many supported them.

So I see what your saying there, and I do believe it is a fear conditioning. You know how it is. We all need our enemy.

As for the rest of your post, OP. I agree somewhat.. that we should remain to ourselves and F the world and just do what we need to do without bothering others...

Except we are the super power, we are the top, the best and the strongest.. we can't just "stop" so to speak.. we would be eaten alive. Its not the kind of world you think we live in.. lay down the arms, preach peace and every one will love you.. what would really happen is you lay down your arms, every one applauses and then knocks you down cold and rapes your country. Strongest survive. Darwinism,

And I believe we long since past that era when we could prevent our coming super power and thus securing our eventual fate of falling on our selves, when ever that is, hopefully not in my life time.

Sorry. Got called away in the middle of the conversation.

So, anybody got a plan for Peace? I'm ready to vote for whoever does. The Republicans want to fight their way to peace. The Democrats have no plans at all for anything as far as I can tell. They are great mudslingers though and I've got to give them credit where credit is due. This Ron Paul dude seems to be a close the borders and hide kind of a guy. The Middle East Governments have no interest in peace and their answer to peace with Israel is to blow them up. The Government of Israel is ready to reciprocate. The French Government can't make up their minds but they will sell anything to anybody. The Government of the UK is in the middle of a giant Flip-Flop. The Russian and Chinese Governments are for the Russian and Chinese Governments and could care less what happens as long as it means money and power for them. The United Nations is to busy being the wonderful bunch of useless crapolla they have always been. The Canadians are for peace and have a wonderful peaceful country, but I've no idea what their plan for World Peace might be.

Trying to have Peace without a feasible plan that everyone agrees with is not going to be possible. Is it? If everyone on Earth stops fighting and arguing and lets the Terrorists do whatever they want to do; do you suppose they will want peace? Probably not. Will they stop killing? No!

So doing the same thing over and over again with the same negative results is insanity they say. Does that make us all insane. Probably!

OK, so where does this leave us? We are all insane and our Governments are all either bad, don't care or are ineffective. So what do we do about it? I'll lay odds we do nothing but complain, express meaningless opinions and keep voting the same same type of people into office. In the countries ruled by dictators and other jerks, I'll bet the citizens sit around and let themselves be controlled just like they have for centuries or longer.

Originally posted by Rockpuck

Except we are the super power, we are the top, the best and the strongest.. we can't just "stop" so to speak.. we would be eaten alive. Its not the kind of world you think we live in.. lay down the arms, preach peace and every one will love you.. what would really happen is you lay down your arms, every one applauses and then knocks you down cold and rapes your country. Strongest survive. Darwinism,

Wine or no wine, thats a fact Jack!

I almost left it one line!!!! Phew, caught it just in time. Speaking of Jack, I just got off work and my friend Jack Daniels is near by

Two edits and I have not had a drink yet. I'm on a roll.

[edit on 9/6/2007 by Blaine91555]

[edit on 9/6/2007 by Blaine91555]