Was the JFK alleged assassin actually Oswald?

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posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 01:05 AM
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In his 1975 book Krushchev Killed Kennedy, Michael Eddowes claimed that The Lee Harvy Oswald who defected in 1959 was not the same person who returned from the Soviet Union and was later detained for the murder of JFK.

For those who are not familiar with the argument, here's a sample:

-The Lee Harvey Oswald who stood for a photograph for the Marines is 5'11. The alleged assassin using the same name was 5'9" when arrested by Dallas PD.

-The arrestee had held a job at the firm of Chiles, Jaggars, Stovall in Dallas during the Cuban Missle Crisis. The photos that Kennedy broadcast of missles on the ground in Cuba were taken by the U2 spy plane, and developed at the firm in Dallas where "Oswald" worked, in the same darkroom. This would be a coveted position for a Soviet spy.

-Oswald, soon after defecting to the Soviet Union, "attempted suicide." It is after this supposedly failed attempt that Oswalds physical characteristics changed so markedly.

-Marina Oswald, the assassin's wife, had an Uncle who was a general in the KGB.

-The Warren Commission investigated the FBI claim that Oswald, after returning to the USA, and been photographed by them entering the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City.

-Oswald had a mastoidectomy scar below his left ear, from surgery he had. The assassin arrested in Dallas had no such scar, as can be seen in photographs.

Eddowes has a whole book of facts like these. While I reject his conclusions, I find his marshalling of facts to be compelling, although there is little interest in his theories in the US, and I have found very few people, even on ATS, who've ever heard of this angle.

I became interested in this angle after a conversation I had with Kerry Wendell Thornley, about 1992

Mr. Marrs, (or anyone else) I'd be interested on your take on the argument that the man labelled as the shooter was not the same man who served in the US Marines.




posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 12:54 AM
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You should take a look at the video The Many Faces of Lee Harvey Oswald. This theory, of multiple Oswalds is developed by means of photo analysis by Jack White and backed up with other research. Here is a link to this video and others.

www.jfkstudies.org...



posted on Oct, 4 2007 @ 03:43 PM
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Howdy dr_strangecraft,

I am about to let you in on a little secret. I am almost fully convinced that the man killed by Jack Ruby in Dallas was not the same Lee Harvey Oswald born in New Orleans in October, 1939.

My reasons for believing this are many and varied. Please read my Chapter entitled “Was Oswald Really Oswald?” beginning on page 539 of my book “Crossfire: The Plot That Killed Kennedy” to learn more details. Also, you should obtain a voluminous book entitled “Harvey & Lee” by John Armstrong. This book was self-published and almost impossible to find but it nails the subject of duplicate Oswalds.

Here’s the basic scenario: Young Lee Oswald was recruited into intelligence work (well-documented) with an eye toward placing a spy in Russia. The man that Intel chiefs really wanted there was Harvey, a young man born to Russian-speaking, anti-communist parents. They couldn’t use this man because the old KGB would have known right off that he was a spy, so they prepped Harvey to take the place of Lee, probably with Lee’s acquiescence. Harvey goes off to Russia where he met and married Marina. He’s the only Oswald she ever met. Harvey, who renounced his US citizenship and told American Embassy officials he planned to give military secrets to the Russians, and Marina come back to the US from Russia (with financial assistance from the US Government!). Harvey is moved around in various intelligence operations in Texas and Louisiana and is finally tagged as the patsy in the Kennedy assassination. The fate of Lee, the real Oswald, is unknown.

There is a mountain of material to support the scenario above but there is neither the time nor space to detail it all here.

Eddowes, whom I met, was correct in understanding that a duplicate Oswald was switched for the real one but he got it wrong that the switch took place in Russia. It took place while both Lee and Harvey were in the US Marines.

I don’t usually dwell on this subject because, even after all the years, it is hard enough to convince people that Oswald was innocent of the crime, much less try to convince them that the man killed in Dallas was not even the real Lee Harvey Oswald.

Jim Marrs



posted on Oct, 4 2007 @ 03:46 PM
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PS to ipsedixit,

If you look on the cover of "The Many Faces of Lee Harvey Oswald," you will find that I both wrote and directed that video.

Jim Marrs



posted on Oct, 4 2007 @ 09:24 PM
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reply to post by Jim Marrs
 


Mr. Marrs, thanks for your reply!

Because Eddowes was my first exposure to the concept, I've borrowed a lot of his terminology and paradigm, without pushing it very far on my own.

One thing I did get from his book was that "oswald's" movements in the minutes after the shooting seem to be those of a man who has just realized that he's being framed. Changing buses, going to his apartment, etc. Surely if things were going to plan, "Oswald" would not need to return to a flat for a change of clothes---he'd have been at redbird airfield, the only airfield in the metroplex that wasnt closed as soon as the JFK shooting occured. Indeed, his change of buses and routes indicate someone who has a definite goal, but is having to improvise a new route.

All of his moves after he left the texbook depository head in one direction: an apartment of Ruby's, and beyond that, toward redbird airfield; where an associate of Ruby was fueling his personal plane, with a flight plan filed destination Mexico City. (The FBI claims that a man looking like Oswald had approached the Soviet embassy in Mexico City months earlier.)

Mr. Marrs, do you think the "oswald" killed in Dallas knew Jack Ruby? I have wondered if Ruby was the leader of a cell or assassination team. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on that line of inquiry.



posted on Oct, 5 2007 @ 12:13 AM
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reply to post by Jim Marrs
 

I didn't realize that you were involved in that film Jim. You really get around.

One question I had regarding the Oswald switch was how did the switched Oswald manage to fool Lee's brother and mother. I've seen his brother on television recounting how he went down to the Dallas jail to see Lee after the arrest and asking him, "Lee, what in Sam Hill is going on?" He clearly believed that the Oswald he was talking to was his brother, but strangely, the responses he reported to having gotten from "Lee" at that time seemed strangely disconnected to my ears.

I can't remember what the "Lee" said, but I remember feeling that at that time he was already in an emotional world disconnected from his family. Now we know why.

It's hard to believe that a double could be that convincing to the people who knew him best. Didn't his mother say something about having some kind of doubt that he was her son?

What a strange story. Perhaps the real Oswald was XPD'd (expedient demise.)

Another question occurred to me. Was Lee Harvey Oswald's proficiency in Russian part of the legend constructed to fit the double's skills or was the real Lee also good at Russian?

[edit on 5-10-2007 by ipsedixit]



posted on Oct, 15 2007 @ 05:00 PM
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Howdy Dr_Strangecraft and ipsedixit,

Dr_Strangecraft, I take it your full name is Dr. Howard Phillips Strangelove Craft? Cthulhu! Gesundheit!

You ask if Oswald and Ruby knew each other. Here's a little story that's never been told publicly. Back in 1991, when I was directing the video "The Many Faces of Lee Harvey Oswald," I was with the production team in the famous backyard of Oswald's on Neely St. in Dallas. As we prepared to film in the backyard, a Hispanic man walked up. I feared that he was going to question our presence and perhaps send us on our way. But it turned out that he was quite friendly and was merely curious about us. He said, "You know that this is the house where Oswald lived?" I replied that we did and ask if he knew Oswald. He said he lived there at the time and knew Oswald only by sight and as a neighbor. He said they would occasionally wave to one another. I then ask this man if he knew Jack Ruby. He said he had met Ruby because he had been in his club often but did not know him personally. I ask if he had ever seen Oswald in Ruby's club and he unhesitantly said yes. He said he distinctly remembered this because he saw Oswald and thought to himself, "Hey, there's my neighbor." This man only told me this. He was never questioned by the FBI or anyone else. I only recount this story because this man's account adds to more than a dozen such stories I got from people in Dallas over the years. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Ruby and Oswald were connected, right up to the minute that Lee looked to his left and his eyes widened in recognition as Ruby stepped out of the crowd with pistol ready.

To ipsedixit --- The fake Oswald -- Harvey -- was raised in a family of immmigrant Russians, most probably from a Baltic country as the Oswald in Russia spoke with a Baltic accent, according to several sources. His family, having left for the USA, most probably were anti-communist. This is why US intelligence had to find some other identity to get Harvey into Russia. Using his real name would have exposed him as a spy. His Russian was impeccable unlike the real Oswald who probably could not speak Russian at all. This explains how Oswald, who reportedly learned Russian via a book and a record, spoke Russian so well that members of the Dallas Russian immigre community thought he was a native Russian. Mrs. George DeMohrenschildt once told me how Oswald (Harvey) and her husband, George, often discussed Russian literature and humor, hardly the topics of discussion for someone who had learned Russian from a book.

Jim Marrs



posted on Nov, 8 2007 @ 09:32 PM
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Mr. Marrs if you get around to this reply in this thread I would appreciate it as I didnt want to waste space with a new board for a simple and short question


Anyways what do you think the shooting of J. D. Tippit fits into the whole JFK assassination..... That has always bugged me. Thanks!



posted on Nov, 8 2007 @ 10:22 PM
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I think there's a kind of Statute of Limitations on proving that someone other than Oswald, all by his crazy little self, killed JFK. After all these years, all of the people who have come up with a lot of circumstantial evidence and made a lot of odd connections have failed to come up with anything nearly as compelling as the simple notion that it was Oswald.

And the trail ain't getting any warmer. People are getting older and dying, even without it being mysteriously coincidental. There have been tens of thousands of pages written, and many absolutely all-inclusive definitive books, so the chances of some incredible indeniable bit of contrary evidence coming to light at this point are getting smaller and smaller.

So after a while, it doesn't matter if the South really won the Civil War, or that Nikola Tesla invented the iPod. Historical truth is ultimately a matter of consensus.

[edit on 8-11-2007 by Nohup]



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 05:53 PM
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Howdy racerzeke,

Regarding the shooting of Dallas Officer J.D. Tippit, please see the section of my book Crossfire entitled “The Shooting of J.D. Tippit” (pp. 340-350). What you will learn is that Tippit was not killed by Lee Harvey Oswald, who was already in the Texas Theater when the shooting took place about 1:15 p.m. This was confirmed by three separate witnesses, including the theater manager, who told me he sold popcorn to the man who was hauled out by police shortly after 1:30 p.m. and that man was already in the theater shortly after 1 p.m. Now, since the government has been quite successful in arguing for years that Oswald must have shot JFK because he shot the policeman, we can now reverse the argument by saying that since Oswald did not shoot the policeman, maybe he didn’t shoot JFK.

The movements of Tippit and his actions on that day appear to be that of man on a mission. I think he played some role, perhaps a minor one, in the assassination conspiracy. Perhaps he was set up to be killed so that the authorities would shoot Oswald on sight or perhaps he tried to back out of the scheme. We will probably never know for certain since there has yet to be an in-depth and objective investigation of this crime. This is a central point to consider. Since it is well documented that officials of the federal government engaged in destruction of evidence, alteration of evidence, fabricated of evidence and intimidation of witnesses (all felony crimes when committed in a murder investigation), this indicates that there was an internal coup d’etat in 1963, one that has yet to be publicly acknowledged.

NOTE to Nohup: First off, there is no statute of limitations on murder, so this Texas homicide is still open in the books. Secondly, even if justice is denied in this case, there is no reason why truth should not prevail, if for no other reason than to see that future generations don’t repeat it. I would also argue with your statement concerning “circumstantial evidence” and “odd connections.” The demonstrable connection between Oswald and Jack Ruby (see the testimony of Julia Ann Mercer, Janet Conforto, Kathy Kay, Shari Angel, Walter Weston, Ester Mash, Attorney Carroll Jarnagin, Dallas Deputy Sheriff Billy Preston, Constable Robie Love and others) makes for something much more than simply “odd”. Three separate alibi witnesses, including theater manager Butch Burroughs, who could have testified in a fair trial that they saw Oswald in the Texas Theater both before and during the shooting of Officer Tippit many blocks away, strikes me as much more than circumstantial evidence. It is clear that you have not studied the wealth of assassination literature in any great depth. This is certainly your right. But don’t try to convince alert and quizzical minds that there is little chance of “contrary evidence” coming to light. And since when has consensus equated with truth? Once the consensus was that the Earth was flat, that the U.S. Sixth Fleet actually was attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin and our politicians would never lie to the public.

Jim Marrs



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 08:34 PM
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video.google.com...

I noticed at second 0:41 "Pause" seems the window is closed - ?

I wonder if the whole story is fabricated like 911 was - ?

it sure seems that way... The Hidden Hand of The Dark Force



[edit on 11-9-2008 by BornPatriot]



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by Jim Marrs
 

Hey Jim, I want to thank you for all your work on the jfk assassination. Esp your work on the development of "badge-man" which now I guess Gary Mack seporates himself from that theory. The one question I have is after all these years, wouldn't Lee's brother be able to tell the difference in photographs of the two Oswald's? Especially after he went and talked with Lee at the jail. thks Terry




 
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