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SR-72 Confirmed: Mach 6 Project Blackswift

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posted on Oct, 4 2008 @ 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Do you think there is a link with x-51A and Blackswift? What is the shape of th Blackswift in black programm?


There is certainly a link between the acknowledged whiteworld Blackswift and the X-51 as the X-51 is the initial testbed for the hybrid ramjet/scramjet technology that is supposed to go in the acknowledged Blackswift.

The unacknowledged Blackswift (as rumors go) uses a 2008 version of the old J-58 engine used on the SR-71. New technologies enable the turbojet/ramjet hybrid concept to provide the power required and the ability to work up to Mach 6.

One post asked about stealth; I submit to you guys that at Mach 6 there is probably adequate plasma generation to significantly reduce microwave reflections. As for temperature handling on leading edges, you're likely to find ceramic leading edges.




posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 07:16 AM
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reply to post by intelgurl
 


Do you think the blackswift can leave the atmospher during this futur missions. It may be like Hypersoar studies?



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 08:19 AM
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Originally posted by intelgurl



No windows!?


That is one awesome flying machine though! Is it supposed to be manned?



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by The_Modulus
No windows!?


That is one awesome flying machine though! Is it supposed to be manned?

It's unmanned, at least for now.



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 02:55 AM
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posted on Oct, 12 2008 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by intelgurl
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


I did a quick search on this thread for the term aileron roll and didn't see it. So forgive if this is a duplication.
From 3/11/08
www.theregister.co.uk...

Wired magazine reported last year that DARPA would also require that Blackswift do a barrel roll, in order to demonstrate that it is a "real airplane", and this has been confirmed. In the new document, DARPA says that Blackswift "shall demonstrate testbed maneuverability at Mach 6+ including execution of an aileron [barrel*] roll".


My thought was 'gee those are some pretty tall tail fins for a plane going Mach 6', but now I'm even more impressed. A porkbarrel roll?
There seems to be a simulation/vid. From this summer:




As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Oct, 12 2008 @ 12:23 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Here the Falcon simulation. If there is a Blackswift this looks like a pretty good model

This is from last September so I hope this isn't a duplicate.

If it is U2U me and I'll edit it and put something better.


When the video plays be sure and scope out the row of other vids at the bottom. There are a couple good ones.



And here's that something 'better':

Again, a simulation, folks...
Part 1:



Part 2:





As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.




[edit on 12/10/2008 by Badge01]



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 06:43 AM
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DARPA has cancelled the Blackswift reusable hypersonic testbed program. Not surprising, really, after Congress cut its Fiscal 2009 budget from $120 million to just $10 million - slicing $60 million from DARPA's budget request and eliminating all $50 million the U.S. Air Force sought for its share of the program.
I'm not sure what I think about this. Disappointed, certainly, but not surprised. Congress was skeptical of Blackswift's technical feasibility and operational utility. I always had the uncomfortable feeling the research agency was trying to run before it could walk - tackling the "DARPA-hard" challenge of reusable hypersonics before it had some of the enabling technologies firmly in place.
blog with videos

lack of funding
where is the money going to



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 08:10 AM
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reply to post by Jezza
 


Hi Jezza,

I think that's exactly what Intelgurl is saying. The real project has gone black, therefore the white world project has been cancelled.

This ties in well with the new, visually obscured hangar at Groom!

Cheers

Robbie



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 08:20 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 08:27 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 10:15 AM
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Using reasonable civil protocol, I believe that the the aforementioned "supposed" female poster is bunk and that :her: inside sources are also :bunk: and will be shown, throughout the span of time to be as such. To me? It's sad how people on the internet will flock around an internet "Messiah" such as this and will take every word as some form of mana from God. Is there a new spy plane to usher in the new era? Doubtful. Satellites now do that work infinitely better than any jet could. What use the new jet? In this time when our economy is collapsing around our necks, do YOU feel the need? Nuh uh. Anyway. Carry on...... Aurora and all that......



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 11:00 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


reply to post by Zenagain
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Can you post your chops/background or other areas where you have the expertise to make your claims, if you don't mind my asking.

Are you in law enforcement or the military - looking at your avatar?

Don't take this as a Mod asking you for information. I'm a Member first. And, don't take this comment as antagonistic. I think it's important that people challenge claims and ask for authority and sources.

If you read through IG's posts she's very nice about it and will gladly give reasons and discussions and citations. All you have to do is ask.


I take it you've read through a number of her posts?

Thanks for the relatively kind reply. It's a better way to do things.

I understand if you don't want to reply - just trying to keep the inquiry on point.

As to the topic, it's been reported on the DARPA site, it's been in Wired Magazine and it's all over youtube. IG was the first to post the information which as an easily available but somewhat obsure industry report or magazine.

I do find the whole concept of a stealthy, small and fast flyer which is Unmanned completely in line with the development cycle. It's gone from the Predators and long lingering types to a fast acting vehicle. The Predator can look down and shoot down. Here we have a version of the F-117a type or a B-2 type attack craft.

Have you worked in the industry? If so I'd consider your input important and valuable.

Have a great day!



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 08:26 PM
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Yes, the Blackswift is now cancelled, if you know anything about the pattern of events that take place when a project goes from public to "black" then you can see that the Blackswift project followed the very same template.



The Path to "Black"

1. White world origins:
Gathering known technologies together, developing a platform design, applying those known technologies to the developed platform

2. Ridiculously difficult goals set:
* Goal A -
Take off under it's own power, attain a speed of Mach 6, do a barrel roll at speed.
Comment: Puleeeze! A barrel roll at Mach 6?!? Have they lost their mind? No, it is an intentionally ridiculous and unattainable goal.

* Goal B -
Develop a hybrid ramjet/scramjet.
Comment: The technology for this is no where close to being at a viable Technical Readiness Level, however - the turbo-ramjet is a 40+ year old design that with current technology can attain the speeds required for this project.

3. Surreptitious split:
Sometime between March and May 2008 I believe there was a split in the Blackswift program.
Comment: It was at that time that the requirements for the Blackswift were intentionally changed from a doable system (a turbojet/ramjet hybrid with a Mach 6 goal) to a ridiculously difficult system (a ramjet/scramjet hybrid). It was also at that time that bidding was opened adding confusion to an industry that knew Blackswift was a Lockheed project through and through. Boeing pretended to jump in but no bidding actually took place.

4. Money/Funding Troubles:
Then came the funding troubles. Congress and DARPA basically lost interest in Blackswift because what? The technology goal of a ramjet/scramjet hybrid was unattainable by today's technology AND the stated goal of doing a barrel roll at Mach 6 was finally seen as being just plain stupid.


4. Cancellation:
In not so quite as blunt of terms, the total stupidity of the Blackswift's goals was the reason for it's final demise. However, one only has to go back to the time between March and May 2008 to see the smoke and mirrors switcheroo.



Is Blackswift Really Dead?

I am here to stake my reputation on the very real possibility that Blackswift is alive and well and being developed in a new oversized hangar sitting on DOE & USAF property about 30 miles north-northwest of Indian Springs/Creech AFB.

Prediction:
By autumn 2009 to winter 2010 you can expect another round of bizarre "skyquakes" tearing through the skies between Nevada and the California coast. You can expect that flight line to cross Vandenberg airspace, this way the sonic boom can be blamed on various rocket projects.

Infact, this is one of those "I told you so" moments.

I told you after the assumed split of programs in spring of 2008 that the above-board, white world version of Blackswift was doomed.

As stated in this link to a previous post a couple of pages back I told you guys how this works and when it happened.
the decoy gets cancelled, the real one goes deep black...

Let's review the differences stated for the original Blackswift that went black and the secondary version with unattainable goals which was cancelled:

"White" or Official version
Powerplant: pulse/scramjet hybrid (unproven, intentionally a ridiculous endeavor)
Airframe: HTV-3 research platform
Development location: Skunkworks, Langley & WPAFB
1st flight: 2012 or maybe never...
Speed: M8 +

"Black" version, now an SAP
Power plant: turbo/ramjet hybrid (a la - the SR-71's P&W J-58, been there, done that)
Airframe: HTV-3X Reconnaissance & Strike platform
Development location: Groom Lake, WPAFB
1st flight 2009-10
Speed: M6



What's Attainable and What's Not?

The original concept for the HTV-3 Blackswift was a turbojet/ramjet combined cycle engine along the lines of the SR-71's now famous J-58's. It was hypothesized, proposed and then accepted that with today’s technology such an engine could indeed power a fighter-sized vehicle to Mach 6.

It is in fact considered across the globe in countries having advanced aerospace projects, that combined cycle turbo/Ramjets (as in the SR-71's J-58 turbine/ramjet combined cycle engines) are the key to hypersonic, air breathing flight in the near term.

Scramjet technology is still not ready to play ball with the big boys, however turbo ramjet hybrid technology as seen in the 40+-year-old design of the SR-71 is quite viable and in it's modern iteration is able to push upwards in excess of Mach 5.

Who is pursuing hypersonic aircraft using turbo-ramjet hybrid technology?
Try Russia, France, Germany, Australia and the UK for starters.

Source: Rejigged Ramjet Program Envisions Start of Test Flights in 2012: Aviation Week & Space Technology, 10/13/2008 , page 40

So where is the US where hypersonics is concerned? It depends on who you're listening to. If you listen to the government mouthpieces then hypersonics is some dreamy goal that requires technologies we are just discovering or just not yet mature enough for such a vehicle.

We all know that's a load of crap though, we here at ATS keep up with this stuff and as a full bird colonel told me one time, "don't piss down my leg and tell me it's raining..." In other words, we will not be deluded.



Let's review:
* Hybrid turbojet/ramjet technology is available today to power a vehicle from zero to Mach 6.

* There is a need, a requirement if you will from the last Quadrennial USAF Review that stated a hypersonic reconnaissance / strike vehicle was needed in order to meet the US's security goals for the 21st century.

* Blackswift catered to those requirements until it's goals were changed to a more ridiculous power plant and doing a barrel roll at Mach 6...



Conclusion:

Absolutely transparent to those who have seen this before -

Blackswift has gone black.

RIP Blackswift, we won't hear from you again unless a major conflict with Russia or China takes place. National assets like this just aren't paraded around for the whole world to gawk at and study, no - this bird has disappeared until such time as it is needed.






[edit on 10-14-2008 by intelgurl]



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 10:34 PM
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they will be above our house they will be watching us they will find you, they will kill you all gone, no more, there's now, done, red mercury payloads, relativity bombs. can't see can't here them coming. all dead. total control at their fingers, hair today gone tomorrow. no more saftey, all gone. scott sigler speaks the truth! j.c. hutchins speaks the truth! only the masses can revolt, only they can take over, many will die, but it will be worth it.



posted on Oct, 14 2008 @ 01:21 AM
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Originally posted by Zenagain
Is there a new spy plane to usher in the new era? Doubtful.

Blackswift will not be a reconnaissance platform primarily, but rather part of the multi-tiered LRS (Long Range Strike) program. Make no mistake, Blackswift is a bomber, a "we can be there in 2 hours" strike vehicle, the secondary function of the Blackswift is to do post strike battle damage assessment, provided a distant second pass is feasible.

This ability adheres to the current tightening of the kill-chain philosophy, (aka the F2T2EA cycle) which mandates the ability to find, strike, assess and strike again if necessary. A more robust recon package would be available by plugging in different modules and replacing the bomb carriage and doors with a custom abbreviated system from the Global Hawk (not as good as the U-2's package).



Satellites now do that work infinitely better than any jet could. What use the new jet? In this time when our economy is collapsing around our necks, do YOU feel the need? Nuh uh. Anyway. Carry on...... Aurora and all that......

Sats Alone are not a Silver Bullet:
Satellites arguably provide better imagery than a global Hawk's sensor package, but the problem is timing.

Most spy sat orbit times are well known to the major global players. A spy sat pass does little good if the party of interest knows when that pass happens. Sure, with the variety of bandwidths available certain things can be discerned, but if they are moving or covering or otherwise obscuring the sat's view then that billion + dollar bird is doing you no good. An aircraft suddenly showing up at 100k ft traveling at Mach 6 on the other hand could provide accurate data as well as surprise the bejesus out of people on the ground.

As an addendum to this last paragraph it is important to state that there will soon be a 24/7 geostationary presense over the Middle East, but there are not such capabilities all over the globe.

I hope this helps...



posted on Oct, 14 2008 @ 08:34 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Improvements are

1. reduced size and weight - lower RCS, lower fuel req.;
2. fire and forget LGBs - no need to dwell over target except for assess and or re-targeting;
3. no need for inflight refueling due to 4 hour round trip;
4. the greatest C4ISR contribution? A reduction in the F2T2EA.


For we laypersons:
Acronyms:
o AWACS - Airborne Warning and Control System;
o RCS - Radar Cross Section;
o LGBs - Laser Guided Bombs;
o F2T2EA - Find, Fix, Track, Target, Engage, Assess - mission-cycle time;
o C4ISR - Command, Control, Communications, Computers, Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance.


Questions:
What is the current fire and forget targeting system? GPS? E-3 SENTRY (AWACS)?

Any problems with releasing ordinance at Mach-6?

Will payload likely be six LGBs? Four?

Very nice post LG!


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.





[edit on 14/10/2008 by Badge01]



posted on Oct, 14 2008 @ 03:07 PM
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Thank you Intelgurl for your informations its very interesting



posted on Oct, 14 2008 @ 03:30 PM
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Last year we see on the net, there is a new hangar in a desert place, it may be the Blackswift house? For a hypersonic suborbital plane, you don't have to do a barrel roll, so in the white world we have two pictures of the HTV-3X the first last year, and the second this year. What this two pictures is near of the turbo/ramjet concept? very interesting your posts Intelgurl



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by Badge01
What is the current fire and forget targeting system? GPS? E-3 SENTRY (AWACS)?

For ordinance dropped from a hypersonic vehicle you are likely looking at GPS primary guidance with laser secondary.


Originally posted by Badge01
Any problems with releasing ordinance at Mach-6?

I'm sure it is something that would have to be tested in a windtunnel after much computation. It's certainly possible and if I had to guess I'd say it would probably eject out of the rear quarter of the craft.


Originally posted by Badge01
Will payload likely be six LGBs? Four?

At Mach 6 there is a strong likelihood of using inert kinetic energy projectiles like the "Rods of God" concept. Aside from that, you may be looking at SDB's (GBU-39's) for space efficiency. I would not speculate on payload numbers.



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