Why must we recognize the right of Israel to exist?

I have a big problem with your thread junglejake.

You immediately label palestine as a homeless man.. correct if i read this wrong.. but the homeless man is palestine right?


Well, what you forget to mention, is that the homeless man, did infact own that house, until he was forcefully evicted, and thrown into a homeless existence.

This would then justify WHY he fully believes and pronounces that the house is his..

because it is.


Israel HAD A right to exist on palestinian land. Thats something the world OWED them after letting ww2 brutalise them.
But they LOST that right, when they enforced horendous laws, camps, punishments, beatings and accusations against palestine.

look at the photos on this thread?
www.abovepolitics.com...'

Tell me, would you be happy living with israel, when you have to wlak through this every day?:

Originally posted by forestlady
Sorry JJ, you got this one wrong, I"m afraid. Israel took land that was already occupied by others and claimed it as their own. It would be more correct to say that the homeless guy owned the house but was kicked out by squatters.

For some reason, alot of people tend to overlook the fact that Israel was created by taking land from others, i.e. the Palestinians. And they weren't reimbursed, either, their homes and land were simply taken, and they received no money for it.

EXACTLY!

The Mandate for Palestine shall terminate as soon as possible but in any case not later than 1 August 1948.

The armed forces of the mandatory Power shall be progressively withdrawn from Palestine, the withdrawal to be completed as soon as possible but in any case not later than 1 August 1948.

Its not like palestine opened the doors up?
They were forced to hand over their land to Israel.
They are in NO WAY a homesless person, they are a illegially-evicted tenant seeking whats theirs against an occupying tenant who uses violence and power/food limitations to muzzle their resistance.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Israel HAD A right to exist on palestinian land. Thats something the world OWED them after letting ww2 brutalise them.

Wait, what? Why would crimes committed by the Germans entitle Europe's Jews to British-held land populated by Arabs? I would think, if anything, it would entitle them to a chunk of Germany, or even a German holding. A part of German East Africa, perhaps.

Of course a better idea would have been to actually accept the Jewry of Europe and America as actual members of the national fabrics, rather than encouraging them to hike off...

reply to post by The Walking Fox


Good point Walking Fox. As for the Jews being entitled to land because of the holocaust in Germany, I will say this: There hve been other holocausts, many in this century against ethnic groups but THEY weren't given land to live in. I'm thinking of Cambodia with Pol Pot, the Armenians right after WWI and several in Africa. Why should the Jews be given land, when the others haven't?

Me?
Personally, I believe the west waited tooo long, we didnt act quick enough and thus millions of jews were slaughtered.
I feel, that at the conclusion of ww2, when all the camps were found, a sense of guilt came over certain people, looking at the situation of displaced families, and the devestated jewish community, the western powers believing they were doing the right thing parted Palestine to help the jews create their own country free from persecution.

Of course this backfired,

Originally posted by forestlady
reply to post by The Walking Fox

 

\As for the Jews being entitled to land because of the holocaust in Germany, I will say this: There have been other holocausts, many in this century against ethnic groups but THEY weren't given land to live in.

Its called guilt my dear... guilt for 2,000 of anti-semitic bigotry in Europe and elsewhere that was the ultimate source of the holocaust to begin with and guilt for doing so very little to stop it.

The whole state of Israel was founded on anger and guilt. Not an auspcious beginning for any state.

i always wondered.... why didn't the roma people get a state after the holocaust? they lost 2 million or so of their people and have been the perpetual targets of bigotry from the first day they showed up in europe to the modern day... yet they get no state.

Excellent point, I knew I had left a group of people out. The Roma have been some of the most persecuted people and not many are left.

Yesterday's men (and women)

There are no Jews, Arabs, blacks, whites or anything else. These are manufactured cultural distinctions that have little or no basis in biology. They were invented serve human purposes that have long since lapsed into obsolescence and are now, like religion, a positive danger to the human race.

Arabs, Jews? How yesterday.

[edit on 29-8-2007 by Astyanax]

reply to post by Astyanax


While I generally agree with you, people still think in those terms and that is not likely to change anytime soon so those distinctions are still incredibly important, unfortunately.

What a fantastic thread guys, well done

Its interesting how Junglejake claims Israel is a secular state but its very claim to existence is religious. The word "convenient" always comes to mind with regards to Zionism, in my mind. Its convenient in that the Biblical ownership of the land was used to justify its reacquisition by the Jews and then dropped off the official Israeli agenda when Orthodox Jews began to state the heresy in such actions. According to Orthodox Jews, Israel is an affront to the Will of God in that he exiled the Jews from the Promised Land.

Even more convenient is the fact that Zionist leaders in Europe and the United States refused to accept Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany. The Zionist leader at the time said, I'm paraphrasing here, if I could save one million Jewish children but not have a Jewish state or save 500,000 Jewish children and have a Jewish state I would choose the later every time. These Zionists were also the terrorists who bombed civilians and the British military in the Palestinian Mandate, British soldiers who'd helped fight Nazi Germany. Killing dozens of civilians and British soldiers in the process. These terrorists were the first politicians of Israel. For Israel to then condemn Hamas as terrorists and not the democratically elected representatives of the Palestinians smacks of the infamous Israeli hypocrisy.

[edit on 3/9/07 by subz]

it's odd... israel invaded sovereign airspace of another nation and the media demonized that nation for making a ruckus about it...

seems like america and israel are the only two countries allowed to care