Jail Nation

reply to post by Boondock78


This thread, as I have repeatedly stated, is not about the legality of anything - it's about the reasons for a high prison rate, in the US, as the law stands now.

It's not about changing the law.
It's not about legalising certain substances.

I have shown more than once that marijuana is not responsible for the high prison levels, but still you persist in an argument that has no relevance.

And then you try to smokescreen by engaging in petty inferrences.

If you have no interest in the topic, then find one that debates what you ARE interested in, there's plenty of them.



As for LIVE - you have no idea who I am, what I do or anything to do with me - if anybody is close minded, it's you, you can't see past the end of your current burn.

[edit on 23/8/2007 by budski]

Just stop posting in this thread then.

Please.

You have done nothing but repeat yourself like a young child over the past three pages.

Originally posted by ChrisF231
There is NO country where it is totally legal, even in Canada and the Netherlands you will still be arrested if you are found with amounts above a certain limit.

Also Canada has legal weed and guess what? Criminal groups are still involved with the production and trafficking of pot. In March 2005 several RCMP officers were killed in a raid on an illegal pot growing farm in Alberta.

en.wikipedia.org...

With a Heckler & Koch 91, a civilian version of a military assault rifle, Roszko shot and killed Royal Canadian Mounted Police Constables Peter Schiemann, Anthony Gordon, Lionide Johnston, and Brock Myrol as the officers were executing a property seizure on the farm.

Other officers initially went to the farm to assist baliffs in trying repossess a truck but Roszko fled in it. Numerous stolen vehicle parts and a marijuana grow-op were found on the premises. Search warrants were obtained and executed.
--------------

convenient story you linked.....the fuzz went there to do a PROPERTY SIEZURE...as in to get his truck...they did notgo there for anythign related to grass. they discovered a grow op when they got there.

A by-product of the massacre was the halt to marijuana decriminalization legislation in the Canadian Parliament.
---------------

pretty cool how a snippet can totally take a different form when you read, i unno, the relavent crap

reply to post by Johnmike


It shows how misjudged it was, given that alcohol is a much more widespread and socially acceptable intoxicant.
Plus society has changed beyond all recognition in the 70 years or so since prohibition.
There is very little relationship between the 2 prohibitions, apart from the name.

Is that really the best you can come up with?
And do you think that arrests for marijuana are in any way related to the present level of incarcerations in the US - if you do, try looking at the figures for incarceration by offense type post - you'll see you are mistaken.



[edit on 23/8/2007 by budski]

Originally posted by iori_komei
The real reason we have such a massive prison population is from three main causes.

1. We make things illegal/prison time that should'nt be.
2. We have unfair sentencing times, for instance someone selling pot gets more
time than a rapist.
3. We don't focus enough on rehabilitation, rather we just have people sitting there
for there time and than being released (assuming they have'nt gotten multiple
life sentences), upon which they have a considerable chance of going out and recommitting
the crime when if they had been rehabilitated that chance would be incredibly smaller.

Good Points iori_komei, I agree that our Judicial System is severely lacking. I attribute this to the reasons you have above. In addition to the fact that in a very free and open society, throw in capitalism which was created for profits and a free market business environment. And this will breed criminal behavior IMO. I also think a huge overhaul of the sentencing structures for crimes needs to be reorged ASAP. However, I think the US is leading the pack because of our open liberal / conservative / independent society. When one has to many choices its not hard for them to make the wrong one. My 2 anyway
Take care

Originally posted by budski

This thread, as I have repeatedly stated, is not about the legality of anything - it's about the reasons for a high prison rate, in the US, as the law stands now.


^^^yeah, we saw you repeatedly state it...typical...you know, after 6 pages of topic, they usually tend to evolve or move on but still relavent...that is exacly what this is.....NOW you don't want to talk about it but you have to if you are talking about jail and people in it...it is a HUGE factor...

lets make it simple to keep it on your topic....the main reason for such a high prison population RIGHT NOW is the fact that grass is illegal...so, how do we fix it....?


It's not about changing the law.
It's not about legalising certain substances.

^^^sure it is

I have shown more than once that marijuana is not responsible for the high prison levels, but still you persist in an argument that has no relevance.

^^^^you absolutely have not....

If you have no interest in the topic, then find one that debates what you ARE interested in, there's plenty of them.


^^^^i'm interested in this thread, right here. thanks


As for LIVE - you have no idea who I am, what I do or anything to do with me - if anybody is close minded, it's you, you can't see past the end of your current burn.

[edit on 23/8/2007 by budski]

you really think you're being open minded here?
ok

Originally posted by Johnmike
Just stop posting in this thread then.

Please.

You have done nothing but repeat yourself like a young child over the past three pages.

I started this thread, and you tell me to stop posting after you have derailed it?

wow, the arrogance of that astounds me - I repeat things because you are off topic, and won't get back on topic.

That simple.

It's directly related, though. The populations of prisons are directly influenced by the laws that send people there. Crime rates have a direct impact on prison population.

Originally posted by Johnmike
It's directly related, though. The populations of prisons are directly influenced by the laws that send people there. Crime rates have a direct impact on prison population.

for some reason, budski can not comprehend this...
i'm a 'stoner' and i get it....bwuahahahahahah

reply to post by Boondock78


Here's the stats again - show me where the massive increase due to marijuana usage is please.

www.albany.edu...
www.albany.edu...

So you see, it's simply not there.

So saying legalising cannabis would drastically reduce the prison rate IS off topic.



[edit on 23/8/2007 by budski]

Originally posted by Johnmike
It's directly related, though. The populations of prisons are directly influenced by the laws that send people there. Crime rates have a direct impact on prison population.

By that logic, if you make everything legal there's no more prison problem.
Sorry, but that argument just doesn't hold water.

save the pdf's. i don't usually open them

www.norml.com...
Marijuana prohibition needlessly destroys the lives and careers of literally hundreds of thousands of good, hard-working, productive citizens each year in this country. More than 700,000 Americans were arrested on marijuana charges last year, and more than 5 million Americans have been arrested for marijuana offenses in the past decade. Almost 90 percent of these arrests are for simple possession, not trafficking or sale. This is a misapplication of the criminal sanction that invites government into areas of our private lives that are inappropriate and wastes valuable law enforcement resources that should be focused on serious and violent crime
-------------

arrest reports in pdf if you want them...i did not read them
www.norml.org...

this is really not hard to understand. with the 3 strike rules and such and how twisted the laws are. you could get hit with a charge if you're in a car with a buddy that has grass. the possibilities are endless and it happens all the time...more than 5 million times in 10 years.

i don't think you're ever going to get it...don't matter really

Originally posted by budski

By that logic, if you make everything legal there's no more prison problem.
Sorry, but that argument just doesn't hold water.

does direct impact now = no prison problem???


i simply have to ask you, what is your problem?

you seem so damn uptight and wound up...seriously

Originally posted by Boondock78
With a Heckler & Koch 91, a civilian version of a military assault rifle, Roszko shot and killed Royal Canadian Mounted Police Constables Peter Schiemann, Anthony Gordon, Lionide Johnston, and Brock Myrol as the officers were executing a property seizure on the farm.

Other officers initially went to the farm to assist baliffs in trying repossess a truck but Roszko fled in it. Numerous stolen vehicle parts and a marijuana grow-op were found on the premises. Search warrants were obtained and executed.
--------------

convenient story you linked.....the fuzz went there to do a PROPERTY SIEZURE...as in to get his truck...they did notgo there for anythign related to grass. they discovered a grow op when they got there.

A by-product of the massacre was the halt to marijuana decriminalization legislation in the Canadian Parliament.
---------------

pretty cool how a snippet can totally take a different form when you read, i unno, the relavent crap

I read the same, which is why I didn't respond - a bad example, but the problem of criminality in cultures where a certain level of drug usage is tolerated does exist.
Take a look at Amsterdam - partial legality but still criminal problems associated with it.
Same with prostitution in Amsterdam.

Originally posted by Boondock78
save the pdf's. i don't usually open them

www.norml.com...
Marijuana prohibition needlessly destroys the lives and careers of literally hundreds of thousands of good, hard-working, productive citizens each year in this country. More than 700,000 Americans were arrested on marijuana charges last year, and more than 5 million Americans have been arrested for marijuana offenses in the past decade. Almost 90 percent of these arrests are for simple possession, not trafficking or sale. This is a misapplication of the criminal sanction that invites government into areas of our private lives that are inappropriate and wastes valuable law enforcement resources that should be focused on serious and violent crime
-------------

arrest reports in pdf if you want them...i did not read them
www.norml.org...

this is really not hard to understand. with the 3 strike rules and such and how twisted the laws are. you could get hit with a charge if you're in a car with a buddy that has grass. the possibilities are endless and it happens all the time...more than 5 million times in 10 years.

i don't think you're ever going to get it...don't matter really

If you're not going to read the evidence, how can you refute it?
That makes no sense at all.
The stats I presented show that what you say is simply intrue.

Oh, I get it - you're on 2 strikes and think the world's against you - but you don't want to or can't stop toking, so you embark on a crusade against the unfairness of it all.

I've mentioned twice that I support the legalisation of cannabis.
But until the law is changed, by whatever social mechanism exists in your country of residence, that's what we have to look at, but you refuse to look at the evidence when it's presented to you.
Real smart.

Click speaking with you is a waste of time - you add nothing but rhetoric - and not even good rhetoric.

Originally posted by Boondock78

Originally posted by budski

By that logic, if you make everything legal there's no more prison problem.
Sorry, but that argument just doesn't hold water.

does direct impact now = no prison problem???


i simply have to ask you, what is your problem?

you seem so damn uptight and wound up...seriously

Just because I disagree with you I have a problem?

I'm neither uptight nor wound up, but I am getting a bit cheesed off with people refusing to judge evidence on it's merits.



I'm presenting things that are not being read, and the same old arguments are being trotted out, but nothings being added to the debate.

Originally posted by budski
Oh, I get it - you're on 2 strikes and think the world's against you - but you don't want to or can't stop toking, so you embark on a crusade against the unfairness of it all.

awwwww....
now i'm all hurt and bunged up....
you have exposed me

edit* what happened to ignore



[edit on 23-8-2007 by Boondock78]

This is the stupidest debate I have ever taken part in. Christ, it's nothing but one straw man after another.

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent. A straw man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it is in fact a misleading fallacy, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.

An example of a straw man fallacy:

Person A: I don't think children should run into the busy streets.
Person B: I think that it would be foolish to lock children up all day.

By insinuating that Person A's argument is far more draconian than it is, Person B has side-stepped the issue. Here the "straw man" that person B has set up is the premise that "The only way to stop children running into the busy streets is to keep them inside all day".

reply to post by Johnmike


So don't take part - every time I present you with irrefutable evidence you refuse to read or believe it - despite the fact it can't be refuted

I've shown evidence that legalising cannabis would not significantly reduce the prison population - what's the problem?

And AGAIN - the 3 strikes rule
www.justicepolicy.org...



[edit on 23/8/2007 by budski]

Originally posted by K-illuminati
hello guys well here is the deal the jail system will only get bigger, here is the current plan as they have it another terror attack will occur on or around the date 9/13/07 soon after marshal law will come into effect bush will keep control, also about camps we already have fema camps that were set up as far back as 1995, we have dozens of fema camps around us, and they will use them after marshal law, the first wave of using them will be when they start to come after NRA members all over us and take registered guns, they start small unsudden, and ease police state and marshall law and finally world govnt into place

Very bold prediction. The date is implausible but very logical. I think they want to incite us into implementing a Marshal law. We have to be provoked or martial law will never come. So you say its the gun bans. I think you could be right, or perhaps one more terrorist attack is all we need.