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Defeat Thermal Imaging

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posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 02:36 AM
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reply to post by ChrisF231
 


This is not the topic of the thread. There are plenty of other US vs the World threads - try using these.

Topic is IR evasion. The most useful method of evading Thermal detection is to create a busy thermal background while making your own thermal signaure look less like that of a human.

In basic terms, the human body has an extremely recognisable shape, particularly to other humans. One of the key principles of camoflage and concealment is to remove or disrupt this shape when viewed by another party. That is why you see pictures of soldiers running around with hedges sticking out of their helmets. They're not tryintg to look like a hedge, they're trying to look less like a person. It breaks up the shape of head-shoulders-4 limbs-torso.

This technique is obvious in the visual spectrum, but what about the thermal one? Well, many materials have varying IR reflective properties, as have been in previous posts. If you are aware that a tracking party have thermal capabilities, your best option is to move into an area with a large thermal signature, such as an industrial area. This is most effective in summer months, as metalic objects soak up heat during the day and emit this in strange ways at varying temperatures. This will present multiple thermal signatures to confuse TI equipment. In such environments, the operator will attempt to distinguish which signatures are human and which are machinery/metal.

Methods of disguising shape vary from simply curling up into a ball to using dedicated thermal reflective equipment. Thermal blankets are available and are quite effective, but are costly. They are actually quite lightweight, but retain heat like a bugger. This will cause dramas if you use it while moving. Differing materials in the environment can be hidden behind, but again this involves static evasion, which is not optimal against a well-drilled hunter force.

Unfortuantely there is no be-all-and-end-all method for the evasion of thermal equipment for any real amount of time, particularly if moving. A man on foot will immediately attract attention as the mark 1 eyeball will immediately be drawn to movement.

Thermal equipment is probably the single most effective piece of detection equipment available to a hunter force. However it is not perfect and can be fooled for short periods. I'm afraid that the only method of ensuring you're not picked up by such equipment is by not being in an area where it is deployed.




posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 02:58 AM
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Bare rock surfaces collect loads of heat during the day and then release it during nights. It shows as a warm spot in T.I and you can easily evade at least airborne T.I by just laying next to a large rock formation. (Sleeping bags are a good insulators and help against T.I detection.

IR Strobes/ IR Flashsticks can be used to temporarily blind T.I systems.

Most modern military gear has at least some form of IR protection. Finnish M91 camo shows up on T.I about half as far as normal civvy clothes... Allso lots of military tents have similar coatings. I assume you might be able to buy these anti-T.I treatment chemicals...



posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 06:29 AM
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I think there may be a bit of confusion between standard IR kit and Thermal Imaging.

Thermal imaging detects parts of the reflective spectrum that are caused by heat radiation.

IR sights detect parts of the visual spectrum that is just outside the range of humans' visual range. Heat is not a factor.

The majority of decent military cloathing and webbing will have some degree of IRR coating or treatment. This makes detection from IR scopes less likely. However it has no effect on thermal imaging. If you look through a standard NV scope or goggles people wearing IRR cloathing blend in quite nicely with a neutral background. Those without such cloathing show up as bright green human-shaped blobs. However no matter which ever type of cloathing they wear they will show up exactly the same on thermal scopes.



posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 07:57 AM
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Paddy;
Thanks for correcting me, i withdraw the clothing statement (I've only tested those with NIR kit, but i was told about the T.I)

But i've seen that tents with heaters inside only show up vaguely in Thermal cameras (as called around here), with exeption of the chimney and doors... might have something to do with the double layered construction... or our POS T.I gear...

The Rocky ground trick works, it's been tested against T.I equippied Helicopters and All sensors that our F-18s have...
AF was even given our location as 5x5km square.



posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 08:32 AM
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A thought...I remember reading about a tactic used by Ghenghis Khan when his smaller army was greatly outnumbered by his opponent. As his army struck camp, he instructed each soldier to light 3-4 seperate camp fires to fool opposition scouts into thinking his army was far more numerous than it really was...

By use of similar tactic, would it be possible to create thermal dopplers/holo (thermo)grams to fool the enemy into the numbers of your group, and which signature was really human or fake???



posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by citizen smith
A thought...I remember reading about a tactic used by Ghenghis Khan when his smaller army was greatly outnumbered by his opponent. As his army struck camp, he instructed each soldier to light 3-4 seperate camp fires to fool opposition scouts into thinking his army was far more numerous than it really was...


This is a common deception technique. Another famous example is the Pebble Island raid in the Falklands war, when 40 members of the SAS attacked the Argy airfield on Pebble Island. Every other trooper carried a GPMG and they were loaded with 1 ball to 1 tracer round (normal is 4 ball to 1 tracer). This gave the impression that there was a much larger attacking force, which made the Argies run for the hills.



By use of similar tactic, would it be possible to create thermal dopplers/holo (thermo)grams to fool the enemy into the numbers of your group, and which signature was really human or fake???


This probably wouldn't be much good for the survivor. using such a system would require a definate pre-prepared defensive position. I suppose it might be handy in a last-ditch situation as a form of escape if, say, you were stuck in a building that was under direct observation. A cheap-as-chips version would probably be to set fire to various rooms to confuse the imagers.

Cheers
Paddy.



posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 12:04 PM
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Couple of good tips here.

So far as personal IR evasion he pointed out that intense summer heat 96 - 100 def F is close enough to body temp to help the blending in process, suppose knowing that and using other disguising methods / not sticking out like a sore thumb would help a lot.

Another one is a poncho made with a metallised thermal mat and a wool run moistened so as to act as a evaporative radiator for your body heat.

He also goes into radar evasion for individuals and vehicles - that was basically shredding magnetic tape (from VHS and cassettes) and mixing with paint or glue so that can be applied to objects that would reflect radar.

Here's his main page - take from it what you will



posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 04:39 PM
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first post here

this could one of those " just plain stupid " ideas

or " it's so simple it just might work " ideas


two beach umbrellas, each 4-5 feet diameter
with the first one, put a hole in the top in the middle
with the second one,
slide it into the hole to line up both handles
so that the umbrellas are 6-8 inches apart

could this hide you from an overhead heli using TI ?
i don't know
maybe wet down the lower umbrella ?
hope i never have to find out, just thinking out loud

with regards to a TI decoy
maybe find some sheet metal
cut out a sleeping human shape
prop it up on rocks and light a fire under it



posted on Oct, 2 2007 @ 12:10 AM
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reply to post by CANADIAN-guerilla
 


Welcome to the ATS survival forums, glad to hear from our neighbors up north. I don't know for sure if your idea would work but I am willing to bet that somebody here does.

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe the British did a similar thing in WW2 with a air field. they painted shadows of planes and tanks on the ground and then the pretend air fields were bombed not the real thing.

That seems to be the same principle as what you are talking about. just a decoy. I don't think a fire would be necessary thow. Probably just prop it up on a few sticks and put three to 4 candles underneath. I think a fire would be too easily identified while candles would have a better chance of going undetected. As long as there wasn't hot spots from those candle I think it would work.



posted on Oct, 2 2007 @ 12:16 AM
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reply to post by angryamerican
 


The Allies actually had tank shaped balloons, and trucks they put all over the land to mimic a army invading from ......I forget where the distraction army was placed. I believe Montgomery masterminded, and implemented this tactic to fool the Nazis.



posted on Oct, 2 2007 @ 01:56 AM
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IMHO any major incursion attempted on the US would relegate most areas of the planet in nuclear winter. Doing the caveman thing would be best bet.



posted on Oct, 7 2007 @ 06:38 PM
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Has anyone had any first-hand experience of using modern T.I. equipment whilst serving in law-enforcement/military?

I'm wondering just how sensitive the imagers are in terms of temperature gradients. Could they detect the heat-signature left by human footsteps (assuming movement at a walking pace) against the background thermal radiation?



posted on Oct, 8 2007 @ 09:51 AM
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Originally posted by citizen smith
I'm wondering just how sensitive the imagers are in terms of temperature gradients. Could they detect the heat-signature left by human footsteps (assuming movement at a walking pace) against the background thermal radiation?


They are pretty sensitive at close range. It is possible to detect footprints but only for a few seconds after they were made. The heat from the prints is very quickly dissipated and they become the same temperature as the surroundings. The person would also have to be bare foot as their shoes insulate their body heat, drastically cutting the heat radiated to the ground. With shoes on, the signature would disappear almost instantly.

Tracing footprints is better done using more traditional ground sign awareness. This is a skill in its' own and takes a serious amount of practice in real life to gain even basic abilities, but that's a topic all of its' own.



posted on Oct, 12 2007 @ 08:06 AM
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When I was in the army we were shown how to camouflage our tanks and tents from thermography and visual perception. We were taught branches from conifer trees like the spruce are very effective in absorbing the heat. Couple of hacked down spruces attached on both sides of a tank really broke its silhouette and made it impossible to identify.

However any holes between the branches still leak warmth, so if used covering something like a tent and trying to make it invisible to T.I.-cameras the layer should be really dense.



posted on Oct, 12 2007 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by dntwastetime
reply to post by angryamerican
 


The Allies actually had tank shaped balloons, and trucks they put all over the land to mimic a army invading from ......I forget where the distraction army was placed. I believe Montgomery masterminded, and implemented this tactic to fool the Nazis.


When I was a teenager doing the Ten tors on Dartmoor, actually in the run up training weekends, we came across some 'tanks' in a valley, I think it was somewhere in the Foxtors myres area but not too sure, this just reminded me. That is REALLY not a good place to drive tanks (dartmoor has a granite base which means bogs up there, one wrong move and the tank is a bit stuck)

Anyways on closer inspection (like 800 meters) you could tell these thing weren't real, on even closer inspection they were put up like tents with poles and canvass etc. We felt like lighting them up - well no one was looking!!



posted on Oct, 12 2007 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by dntwastetime
The Allies actually had tank shaped balloons, and trucks they put all over the land


Perhaps a more viable, and possibly entertaining, method of decoy along these lines would be an inflatable-woman and a battery powered hairdryer.

Insert the hairdryer in *ahem* a conveniently-placed hole as a hot-air input to keep the doll inflated, and make a smaller outlet hole to allow the hot air to circulate or you may just end up with Blow-up Betty taking off


Voila! A human-shaped inflatable T.I decoy!



posted on Nov, 8 2007 @ 10:51 PM
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It would almost be worth getting caught to stick around and see the looks on their faces when they found that...



posted on Nov, 8 2007 @ 10:58 PM
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the solution is to come up with a hand thrown EMP granade that wipes out electronis anywhere in a 20ft blast area. with that little baby it will be a fair game.



posted on Nov, 8 2007 @ 11:50 PM
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Wouldn't military hardware be hardened against EMPs?

Does anyone know what happens if you shine a hot laser on a thermal imaging device? Does it have an effect?



posted on Nov, 9 2007 @ 01:16 AM
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Originally posted by icybreeze
the solution is to come up with a hand thrown EMP granade that wipes out electronis anywhere in a 20ft blast area. with that little baby it will be a fair game.


It would be easier and cheaper just to throw a HE grenade within that distance. You'll get rid of the operator and the kit.



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