Defeat Thermal Imaging

Hello ATS Survivalists,
I am a believer in reserching anti-T.I. technology. This is the number 1 problem aside from the basics, for anyone who escapes to the wild in the event of the takeover. The hunter kill squads roaming in the forests will have Thermal Imaging of the highest degree, as well as GPS and satelite TI as well. The added problem of superior firepower like the Barrett 50cal rifle equals one bad day for a escaping family.
Several years ago I read on a military chat board about a soldier who said he was working on defeating the imaging on the tanks. He stated that when he hid behind a sheet of acetate the tanks T.I. system could not see him.
I attempted to look at the thread again a few weeks later, and it had been removed.
The best way to defete T.I. is to lower your heat signature, and not totally dissapear, and be a blank spot in the heat background.
Living in a tropical enviroment where your body heat is lower than the surrounding is the only solution I see.
So are we all in big trouble going to the wild? Is this survival forum damaged in the face of this monster T.I.?
Or do you think they will allow some to live in the human free areas of the wilderness to watch us?
Any input is appriciated.

[edit on 20-8-2007 by dntwastetime]

Ive given many hours of thought and research, on this very subject. The meat of the matter is there is no fool proof way that Ive heard of to fool thermal imaging for long.

The best hope if they are looking for you is to be ware they are not looking. It's a numbers game. By that I mean the sheer number of people that will be bugging out will be huge so odds are most of them hopefully you included will escape.

I did watch a episode of mythbuster ware they tried to fool the thermal imager. It can be done but only for a short time. The best method as I remember it is a full body wetsuite. Its only good for a few minutes thow because your body heats it up, so its really not of any use.

I have ran across plans for a hand held EMP generator. Don't know if it actually works or not but frying the imager in there hands seems like a viable method to me. it in itself has flaws thow. like if they loose a few at the same time they will suspect that something is amiss. If its tank mountated it will also be hardened. making your Generator useless against them.

So to make a long story short. The only fool proof way is to not be ware they are looking.

Assuming you get away to your desired bug-out location undetected, the greatest problem I can see is long-term shelter and T.I. as any anticipated mop-up operation would start once people stop running. Any form of shelter would probably have to be below ground, much like the V.C. tunnels at Cu Chi which would greatly remove the chance of detection of your hideout

Edit to add:
Perhaps an idea to increase your chances would be to equip yourself with a recent-make video-camera, most come with a basic IR mode which (in theory) should be capable of picking up the IR night-sight illumination that the military use (think of the nighttime green-and-black footage of coalition forces in Iraq)



[edit on 20-8-2007 by citizen smith]

I recall seeing something on Future Weapons about a new sniper ghillie suit that is near-invisible to IR detection (although I could still pick him out on the screen they showed). There probably aren't many effective methods currently available to the public.

In most survival situations, people wouldn't be such a threat that they'd be hunted by anyone with long-term IR capabilities. I guess you just have to hope that your Sit X isn't a genocide. I'm sure everyone has seen IR footage from police helicopters. Once they bring in the IR, there is nowhere to hide, even if you're in the basement of a building... game over.

Anything I can think of that would lower your body temperature enough to give you some advantage (ie. sitting for hours in a lake/river) would also leave you exposed to hypothermia.

[edit on 8/20/2007 by Yarcofin]

www.mythbustersfanclub.com...

don't know if it would work against high quality IR camera, and it probably would not be too practical, but if you are hiding down a hole it would be better than nothing.

reply to post by dntwastetime

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What about a thermal blanket?

The problem is that you would have to match background temperatures pretty close otherwise the blanket would show and they would come looking to she what he blob on thier scopes was.

reply to post by Yarcofin

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What you know and have on hand also helps.

Look at what the Somali's did to the Blackhawks.

you can always take the opposite approach and start a really big fire...

again, not vary practical...

god bless mother nature, polar bear fur should do it if you can get some, virtually zero thermal signature from a polar bear. otherwise, i'ld suggest breaking up your heat pattern as much as possible, mud, clothes, branches, whatever, just so your not clearly a human shape. the technology will only ever be as good as the guy using it. caves might also be useful to avoid eyes in the sky.

"
Simple tactics
Nets and smoke are the hi-tech solution to TI. But even the most unsophisticated forces can evade TI by intelligent tactics and good SOPs. If you follow the basic rules of fieldcraft, you will go a long way towards defeating TI. Avoid open spaces and skylines by day or night, and use dead ground and cover when you are on the move. A patrol, exactly spaced, moving across the middle of a field at night, will stand out dramatically against the cool grass.
TI can see heat patterns through conventional camouflage nets and vegetation like thin hedges and scrub. But it is not an x-ray eye. Buildings, walls and even thick vegetation will conceal men and vehicles.

TI is most effective where the enemy is easily identified, for instance in the desert, open grassland, or the arctic. The most difficult is a built-up area, which may contain civilians and their vehicles. Heat patterns here will be enormously varied, with some buildings showing warm, and a confusion of blobs of heat from individuals, cars, trucks and even livestock. In this environment, soldiers must avoid behaving in ways that act like a signature - like forming a queue for food, parading in three lines, or even using the slow skulking walk of men moving tactically.

Garages, barns and even multi-storey car parks will help conceal APCs and tanks, which can be deployed as an armoured quick reaction force (QRF). Houses can be prepared for defence and will not only offer protection against small arms and shell fire, but also concealment from TI and other observation systems.

On the run
The techniques and equipment described above will assist the soldier, but can the fugitive use them? Clearly camouflage nets and IR smoke will not be used by the man on the run. But the fugitive can employ simple evasive tactics which will go a long way to negating the advantage of a pursuing force equipped with TI.
In car or on foot, the evader should aim to blend into the thermal clutter from other people or vehicles. Busy towns and cities are therefore better than open countryside. If a car is being followed by a TI-equipped helicopter, underpasses, tunnels and even cuttings may offer cover and perhaps the chance to change vehicles. If the driver suspects that he is under surveillance, he should not behave in a way that will attract attention - erratic, slow or excessively fast driving is bound to attract attention.

For the evader on foot, a crowd or any solid cover from above or the side, will give a few moments in which he can shake off the 'eye in the sky'. TI does not perform well in falling rain, snow or sandstorms, and search aircraft may be reluctant to fly in these conditions anyway. An added benefit is that snow or sand covers tracks and muffles noise. Finall, bad weather makes guards and search teams less alert.

As with any observation system, TI is only as good as the operator. As ranges increase the image becomes attenuated - in simple terms, the target becomes less distinct on the scope, and appears as an indistinct hot blob. If this blob behaves like a law-abiding civilian blob, the operator will switch his attention to other areas.

In two words, one of the best ways to defeat thermal imaging is 'act natural'.
"
If you don't mind, I'm not listing the source. Also, except in cold weather, Pine trees give a heat signature close to a human (excellent overhead cover). When Afghans hear choppers overhead doing sweeps, they use wool blankets they carry as quick TI camouflage. Don't wear the blanket or it will heat up, carry it low on your pack and throw it over you when needed. I guess I need to specify don't do this on top of a hot rock or you will stand out as a black spot.

If you camp or go to the "field" buy a reasonable quality IR thermomater and tag objects (bushes, trees, lowspots/highspots, structures) and compare to the wool blanket you now carry to get experiance in blending in to your environment thermally.

Have you considered a disguise? Get a deer's head and hide so when they pick out your signature, they focus in and all they see is a deer.

If they shoot the deer in the head, run like hell and they will think they only wounded it.

I read a story about an escaped convict awhile back. The police and searchers kept talking about how he was an outdoorsman and trained in survival and thats why they couldn't catch him. Eventually they did catch him and want to know what he said?

He went where they did not want to go. He scrambled thru brier patches and down steep ravines and thru thickets. They knew where he had gone, they just didn't want to bust their butt's having to follow him thru such terrain.

If you can't be where they are not, go where they will not follow.

Just my thoughts on it,

wupy

This is not really a way to hide, but rather, keep them from following you if found.

If they can not see you, you are not easily tracked... T.I. will be used to track you, even if you shoot a few guys or run like heck.


However: Blind the thermal image system. Ever notice when watching T.I. systems, an explosion far away can really mess it up for a moment?

Make a flash bomb, flash traps, or even if possible, a directed thermal system. Shine it into their system, while blinded, kill or run.... it can potentially overload and fry their equipment.

I was watching the show "Mythbusters" a while back, and they did a show on how to sneak past an infra-red security detection camera. The camera worked by detecting heat and then it would set off an alarm. They were able to sneak past it. How?? By holding a big piece of surface treated glass between them and the camera. Glass is opaque to infra-red light, but translucent to visible light. I know that its not very practical to carry a huge piece of glass with you everywhere. But im sure that there is some way to make use of this unique feature of glass.
www.newton.dep.anl.gov...

Like maybe a suit that had a layer of lightweight thin glass laminated in plastic or something? Im sure the military has ways of blocking Infrared heat signature using this or other types of material that blocks the infrared spectrum.

Of course there is many flaws to this but its just an idea.

Just my 3 cents.

Hmmm...What would McGyver do?

A creative junk-tech solution could be to make a heat-sink based on the Afghan wool blanket idea, using a wool blanket, lightweight-gauge plastic tubing, and a small portable (1litre-ish size) CO2 fire-extinguisher...and not forgetting gaffa tape from the BoB kit

Lay out the blanket and run the tubing back and forth in a concertina so it resembles the radiator on the back of a refrigerator and fasten to blanket either by stitching and/or plenty of tape, leaving a foot or so of the tubing free at one end. If the diameter of the tube is smaller than the nozzle of the extinguisher, wrap strips of gaffertape around the end of the tubing so it makes a snug fit when inserted.

The idea is that you crawl under the blanket with the extinguisher and fit the end of the hose in the nozzle...when discharged, the gas under pressure will expand as it runs through the tubing and dissipate your radiated heat-signature

The T.I suit is the idea. Developing a long term suit like this is the key. I like the polar fur with the tubing solution. Is there a site that sells these furs?I mean seriously, a person will not be able to make even a tiny fire above ground if we go to war in fortress America. The satelites will pick out a small fire while fast asleep. Do we have to turn into a wild animal? Going underground is the best way to avoid TI,. I think Ill just do what I have to do when the murderINC scum are at the front door. Dealing with TI is a major issue.

remember in predator where Arnold hid from the predator with mud, hello instant thermo-cameo. bare in mind you'll have to run around naked or dig in some where like a fox hole or in a tree to avoid detection. Learn to run on all fours like a dog this will help tremendously.

if you got 30 militia guys running through the forest looking for you make sure you can see them and not the other way around. how many times do you have to watch Rambo to learn a thing or two. Basic military tactics, especially when looking for some one in the forested area is to spread out in a number of formations. If you can’t run then you better "Tarzan up" because its you against them. If you've made it to the mountains or forested areas your already one up over them, you should have had enough time to learn your area. The inn’s and out's.

boy I truly hope it never comes to this but if it does
Above T-I surveillance it another story, they have radio's and on board weapon that can turn u into hamburger meat.

[edit on 21-8-2007 by pweagle]

I found a few things on the net I've been wanting to purchase for my kits...

1 a landshark thermal blanket they claim it hides your thermal signature. Very pricey though $49.99 for a thermal balnket is a bit pricey.

2. I've also read that the Eureka combat shelters they make for the military are designed to mask thermal signatures. These are usually available on ebay for around $200.00 used.

Anybody have any input on these items?

Thanks for this thread. This is a topic I have absolutely no real knowledge of. It fills me with paranoia to even contemplate.


Couple of things I think of.

1. It would probably help if you had your own TI system, right? At least if you are armed. There's nothing that slows down a search, quite like return fire . . . especially when it's well-aimed. In this situation, you are not invisible, but neither is the other dude.

2. This tech isn't so widespread, outside of leading militaries, that it's universal. For instance, it still isn't that widespread in US law enforcement. I know from agriculture that every crop has a different heat signature. Yet for some reason, the govt. doesn't have the money or workers to eradicate every pot patch in the US and latin america. And it's certainly not for a lack of budget, or trying.

Theoretically, every basement grow-room in the states should have a glowing thermal image, from hydroponics lamps going full bore. Yet you don't hear of many busts like this. Back when I was still in law enforcement, the Supremes had ruled that thermal signature was not a private property, paper or effect, and thus it was not technically a search to point TI at a suspected "farm-house." Yet you don't see (m)any busts of this nature. Therefore, it must not be feasable for some reason. . . .

3. In a "fortress America" scenario, the sky-blue helmets are going to have their hands full just dealing with suburbia. ON AVERAGE, there is one firearm for every 2 US citizens. And the ratio goes up where the population is lower. See, it's one thing to occupy 3 million Afghans, who are still emerging from the dark ages. It's a different proposition to occupy 300 million Americans, half of whom are armed, and practically all of whom have cell phones and cars. If the UN had so much trouble policing downtown Beirut, I suspect that affluent suburbs would be an even bigger hurdle, given thousands of cars and thousands of acres. I've posted elsewhere about the futility of disarming the US public; point is, small groups of folks up in the mountains are just fewer shooters in the places the NWOers would care about.

4. From what the media lies to me, it seems that coalition forces in Afghan and Iraq are mostly focused on the cities, and that the hinterlands are pretty much no go zones. Factor in the cost of fuel, medicine and time delays when projecting force into remote areas, and you can see why. Based on this thread, I feature the Rambo-type survivalists actually not hiding in the dense wilderness, but on the edges of fields and farms, and blending in, bartering, and leading the food producers. That seems to be the taliban method in Afghanistan: a major offensive after the planting, and once again after the crops are in.

For anyone to invade the US they would need millions of troops and to occupy it they would need millions more. Its just not going to happen unless the entire world ganged up on us and even then im willing to bet we could deal them a serious blow before they even land for the simple reason that they lack the means to transporting large numbers of troops at the same time.

The only logical idea is a land based invasion from either Canada or from Mexico and even that is unlikely as first an invader would have to occupy those places. The only possible invasion we might ever see is a Mexican attempt to retake the Southwest once they have the majority of the population in demographics.

An interesting thing is that during the Cold War the Soviets identified the Mexican border as our weak point and when the Cold War ended in 1991 the Russians gave us the report that the Spetnaz made on our border security and told us flat out that it sucked and anyone can get into the US and how we could improve our border security. Needless to say we totally ignored their warnings and I believe we will pay for it dearly sometime in the future