Defeat Thermal Imaging

The patrols that use TI are handicapping themselves with delicate equipment. TI can detect you but it's doesn't make the user invincible or undetectable. There's absolutely no way that even with all the TI and satellite detections systems in the world that there's enough troops and equipment to secure even an area the size of Iraq much less the wilderness areas around the world. I know a US trained guerilla from a best unnamed conflict. He told me that the sounds and smells of regular troops allowed his particular cell to avoid detection quite easily. TI is only as good as its operator and their training. Those NWO patrols will have to go into areas where they're every bit as exposed to those resistors as the resistors are to them. Non explosive booby traps are simple to make and feared by even the best trained special forces much less regular infantry.

This is very interesting and I do not see an easy solution. If you can frequent areas where people are normally, busy trails and roads, then thermal imaging will be next to useless in and of itself.

There's the crunch of it. No piece of equipment is useful in isolation, and all pieces of kit rely on a user.

As has been mentioned, there isn't enough TI kit let alone users to cover everywhere. That's why it is used in conjuncction with skilled operators, recent int, correct placement etc. It is only one piece of the observation network.

I heard mylar works well but you would have to sew a suit together,not real sure on what your doing though.but it might work for you. it comes in big sheets.hope it helps.

What is with people dredging up ancient threads?

But anyways, there are several new technologies that people use in attics to save heating/cooling costs.

One is a foil that gets put under your rafters, the other is a paint, both stop the transfer of heat pretty well.

You could put one of these inside of your shelter, and it should work well.
I believe that "growers" use foil similar to this, and it stops the TI from seeing their grow operation.

Originally posted by citizen smith
Has anyone had any first-hand experience of using modern T.I. equipment whilst serving in law-enforcement/military?

I'm wondering just how sensitive the imagers are in terms of temperature gradients. Could they detect the heat-signature left by human footsteps (assuming movement at a walking pace) against the background thermal radiation?

My bro uses that on operations.
I've tried persuading him to wangle a thermal imager he attaches to his sights for me to play with but no dice. THose things are sewn up tight into the army stores network. They are 100% accountable and the searches the RMPs do nowadays to check soldiers returning from Operations are very very thorough.

reply to post by dntwastetime


Quite simply perspex will compltely block your heat signature. They even tried it on an episode of myth busters to fool a passise IR sensor. So basically sitting in a greenhouse will keep you safe. The next best thing is just putting a lot of material between yourself and the TI system. A tree is thick enough to hide your signature, in the end it's about line of sight.

Talked to a guy who used to work for Raytheon (in the past 12 months)

He said they have handheld units (described them as being about as big as a couple of packs of cigarettes)
These units apparently were sensitive to 1/100th of a degree - at the tradeshow he was presenting this technology at, they would look at peoples footprints on the carpet 15 minutes after they passed....
supposedly, you could see a path through water where someone swam through, just by the temp. of the water...

Can't do much against that, except shoot and move...

reply to post by dntwastetime


I recently viewed a science program which showed an experiment with a TI and a piece of plexi-glass .
A person was introduced behind the plexi-glass , and the TI device was unable to register any image.
I believe the programs host was Levar Burton.
I viewed this program at apprx. 07-08.

so i read all theses thoghts and myths and found a couple usefull bits o knowledge, but i did not see any reference to makeing the heat signature of a person higher than normal, i would like to think that if you have a suit that could change temps sorta like the SAint movie suit would it be ignored or thought of mechanical failure? do they ever calibrate this techknology?, i guess the question comes down to training, what does the training say about abnormal heat readings? lets say that i have a suit that could change temps to above 120 degrees? would the user question the tools or ignore since it cant be human or what? just thinking out of the box you people constructed?

reply to post by osirus82


It would probably just draw attention to you. Remember there is a human on the other side of these things and they are undoubtedly in a combat-mode of thinking, and are going to be cautious and want to be aware of their surroundings.


The smartest thing to do would probably be to stay where people wouldn't be looking for you in the first place, or somewhere where such heat signatures wouldn't be odd. Or else stay low to the ground, covered up and out of the open.

Near Infrared (NIR) Signature Management Technology is used by the U.S. Department of Defense to prevent detection by NIR Image Converters. These photocathode devices do not detect temperatures, but rather infrared radiation variances. NIR-compliant uniforms use a special fabric that allows soldiers to appear at the same radiation level as the surrounding terrain, thus making them more difficult to detect. NIR technology also make uniforms less visible in low-light environments by reducing the reflection of light.

you can buy this stuff at this web sight www.epropper.com... hope that helps all of you guys wanting to hide from imaging equipment

reply to post by dntwastetime


Well I dont have a 100% escape from thermal view but this method can mask your body heat slightly. Cover yourself in mud and cover areas of greater heat output with a thicker coat. Example: Head / Underarm / hands / feet / crouch. To be a bit more effective you can also branches and leaves to also help with masking your heat from the thermal. This would be easy done in the wild.

Well any kind of suite or cover needs to be varied, Not solid pieces of anything. You should use layers that have holes, and odd shapes to them. So with thermal it looks like it has texture.

Plus when they get close remain still, do move at all, the slightest movement attracts the human eye.

Just some ideas..

You all have good ideas and bad ideas. The thing you fail to grasp is that you are trying to defeat an electronic device. Why not try to defeat the man. He is afterall the problem. And I will tell you, mud doesn't work, specialized glasses do, but if you want the cloak of invisibility like Mr. Potter, use heat reflecting curtains (x2) and a blanket, cloak it onto your body and leave a small hole cut into the top just as long as it doesn't act as a collar but wears as a crown just like on a Native American Teepee, I mean a very small hole, resembling a large coin like the American half-dollar, that is all you will get, look at your sneakers, what do you think those holes are for? This limits your signature making it very small allowing you to release heat from the top of your head, and it feels very soothing when a strong wind blows, all in all, it should look like a hooded cloak, It has to hang below your feet, so I created a very ingenius drawstring that work like the draw string to keep from tripping. And yes I have it, it works, and I based it off the Jet engine covers of the F-117 Nighthawk or stealth fighter to you yuppies...but let me explain something even better just in case your were for worse...

"Even the bravest men are frightened by sudden terrors."
-Tacitus, Publius Cornelius

If you run and hide, you will enevitably invite a curious cat, and what happens to the feline all depends on weather you are running in fear of your life or attempting evasion. If your were to be persued to the wilderness, use the wilderness as a deterent, not a strong hold. In WWII, the retreating Japanese were chased into a swamp, not one made it out. And even such mythical things as Bigfoot and Swamp Ape and the Chupa Cabra would all cast a shadow of fear making even the bravest uncertain what was ahead. Imagine a loud noise, and falling back to it's source the military unit finds a man bitten in to by a ravenous animal. This is just one agenda I would persue, another is a saying in The Thirty-Six Strategems. "Make a sound in the east, then strike in the west." For instance I am able to reverse the soles of my jika-tabi to make it look like I'm coming towards you when I'm fleeing, and I even encourage installing animal prints molded like Wax Sealing Stamps on the bottom, this has gotten many many times over. I know that there are better countermeasures needed, but the question is? If something as menacing as a Totalitarian Government came about at this hour, would you be able to conjure courage and command it, the imagination is the most powerful weapon. And weapons are only needed to fight a war, tools are needed for survivlal, so if you did manage to successfully blindsite your persuer. I would advise you to stay level headed and remember you did this to him even with all his military prowess and hardware available to him. You do not need to become him, leave his gear, because it will put the men ever on guard against you knowing you are armed, but a wolf, wildboar, cougar, or even Bigfoot would not to think to take the mans possessians and it will leave you relying on these implements other than you're mental faculties, the same error of the enemy. I was very much amused at the main character defeating the soldiers in 28 Days later in the mansion, this would be a likely example to learn from because it is easily concealed in the media, knowledge is everywhere, it's not that you have to know where to look, it's you have to know how to look at it, most of these countermeasures posted under this topic would fail because you are relying on your own ignorance or someone elses. I would not let anyone role my dice.

"The Die is Cast"
-Gaius Julias Caesar after crossing the river
Rubicon, in Northern Italy, the point of no
return...

I can build an effective EMP generator. I have one as a demonstration for one of my college physics classes I teach. It is portable as well. Anyone interested U2U me. They are legal to own for now.

Originally posted by citizen smith
Assuming you get away to your desired bug-out location undetected, the greatest problem I can see is long-term shelter and T.I. as any anticipated mop-up operation would start once people stop running. Any form of shelter would probably have to be below ground, much like the V.C. tunnels at Cu Chi which would greatly remove the chance of detection of your hideout

Edit to add:
Perhaps an idea to increase your chances would be to equip yourself with a recent-make video-camera, most come with a basic IR mode which (in theory) should be capable of picking up the IR night-sight illumination that the military use (think of the nighttime green-and-black footage of coalition forces in Iraq)



[edit on 20-8-2007 by citizen smith]

A variation on this is my plan.

Underground via a cave, or underground via a Mike Oehler style
home that has no visible entrance exits, ie. they are concealed.

Cold camp, no fires, and wearing camo 24 x 365.

Underground the temp stays the same year round, it won't be comfy,
but you won't have a smoke plume rising from your camp.

You can even have a greenhouse via something like sola-tubes.

The biggest problem would come before thermal image evasion tactics can be used. The choppers that would be used with thermal imagers to locate dissidents would kill you with hellfire missiles and you wont even hear it coming, like those videos of apaches killing insurgents in iraq etc.

Usually chopper is 2-2.5 miles away and would shoot you based on your thermal signature and you wont even see it coming let alone try to hide your thermal image.

Before Radar they had these huge acoustic mirrors, but they are not portable and easily visually detectable.
www.andrewgrantham.co.uk...

Do you think those inexpensive portable homemade parabolic mics, perhaps with an amplifier be able to pick up the buzz of a choppers engine to alert you that a chopper is near so you can take measures????

there is an older thread on here discussing the same thing...you will be hard pressed to beat thermal imaging for long.

I worked on the armament systems on attack helicopters and this included thermals. Some of them were extremely sensitive...to the point you could see the nipples on females that were in our support unit...through their uniforms...others were not as good but great.... u may think u can hide from these things but you cant. The imagers have the ability to switch the polarity of hot and cold on the viewfinder. What may not be visible one way will totally pop when you switch the polarity.

We experimented with different things just playing around like soldiers will do and didnt find anything that worked for long or under scrutiny...at a casual glance you may get away with it.

reply to post by kaferwerks


any comments on this

Originally posted by anonymouse11
The biggest problem would come before thermal image evasion tactics can be used. The choppers that would be used with thermal imagers to locate dissidents would kill you with hellfire missiles and you wont even hear it coming, like those videos of apaches killing insurgents in iraq etc.

Usually chopper is 2-2.5 miles away and would shoot you based on your thermal signature and you wont even see it coming let alone try to hide your thermal image.

Before Radar they had these huge acoustic mirrors, but they are not portable and easily visually detectable.
www.andrewgrantham.co.uk...

Do you think those inexpensive portable homemade parabolic mics, perhaps with an amplifier be able to pick up the buzz of a choppers engine to alert you that a chopper is near so you can take measures????