When will you stand up for your country?

But we didnt really "Get Rid" of clinton. Sure, he was impeached, but not removed from office. He just served up his two terms. But yeah, he was one of the greater presidents this country has seen.

When will I stand up for my country?

When it's time.

Originally posted by Quantum_Squirrel
i posted this in another thread i liked it so much i want to start one...

you know it makes me laugh , you guys can get rid of one of the most intelligent presidents you have had in recent times for getting a certain [Profanity Removed] 'lady services under a table.' (apologies mod)*


yet you cant get rid of bush and his cronies for a never ending and growing list of terrible decisions at best and calculated evil at worst.

So the question is when is enough , enough ? when will YOU stand up and do something..

after the first nuke?
after the invasion of iran?
after martial law is declared in the states..

when will you stand up? and if/when you do what method of standing up is your preffered choice?




Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 15-8-2007 by elevatedone]

[edit on 15-8-2007 by elevatedone]

[edit on 15/8/07 by Quantum_Squirrel]

President Bush and Clinton both eat out of the Rothschild and Rockefellar zionist palm, so whether one in your opinion is intelligent, and the other is an idiot? It doesn't matter because they're both selling us to the corporations and the aliens. When will Americans learn that Right is Left when you open both eyes. Both of these clowns hang out at the Grove (Bohemian) and the entire Republican Democratic american feud is a well promoted Don King fight where up until the fight the two sides hate one another then they beat each other to a pulp in the name of wholesome family entertainment, collect their huge pay checks, shake hands, go fishing or play golf and ride off into the sunset richer than crap, with everyone feeling sorry for them because they contracted Lyme disease or some other hokum while hunting gazelle in zanzabar. You'd think we'd have figured this out by now. It only happens every four years. People like you though? You know better. You're informed.

Originally posted by seagull
When will I stand up for my country?
I do every time I step into the voting booth. ...
Thanks for the advice, but we'll somehow manage to muddle through via our own devices.

I agree – that's a mainstay for speaking out. Just as we re-routed the parties in the house to make a statement that we're no longer happy with a Republican-heavy Congress. We pushed in buttons and viola, a Democratic Congress was elected.

I saw this image on MySpace the other day and thought it was amusing and since it somewhat applies to this thread ...

Originally posted by Quantum_Squirrel

1. I am a citizen of this planet and have every right to have an opinion, especially when your footprints are all over the world.

2. we are allies arn't we .. when ever you try to drum up support whos the first to stand shoulder to shoulder with you?.. are you saying you just want our soldiers to die for your causes but dont want to hear our opinions about them?

3. so RE: points one and two i have very much a vested interest in what your country does as it directly seems to be effecting the world as a whole.

Why don't YOU stand up to YOUR government when your government allies with the United States while the US is committing all these horrendous acts?

Originally posted by arius
I think this is interesting that this thread is authored by someone who does not live within the united states and as such has no vested interest either way. First off we have no reason to openly rebel against our government. Why, our form of government is functioning the way it should. As long as the form of our government operates according to the way it is directed in the constitution we will continue to be good americans.

That being said you should never underestimate the american people when it comes to defending their rights. Our ancestors fought the war of northern aggression in order to defend their right to self determination. It was the bloodiest war in our history and to my knowledge dwarfs any other civil war in terms of lives lost and suffering encountered.

dude! What year are you living in? No, our form of Government is not working the way it should. The Constitution? Our current president doesn't adhere to it let alone know how to spell it!

I'm not even going to get into conspiracy theory issues. lets face facts. Every other week Bush gives himself emergency powers. Our freedoms are being taken away with every month that rolls by. It all started with "Homeland Security". Homeland Security is the biggest crock I ever heard of. Why do we need the National Guard then? Homeland Security is a tool of the current administration to compromise our freedoms to gain more control over the public in the name of "Terrorism". Don't get me wrong, I believe in "terrorrists", but at the same time I believe 9-11 could have been avoided. This administration has been the worst to date, and there wasn't even one legitimate election, let alone two.

I sometimes think that Bush isn't going to leave office that easily especially when one of his top advisors jumps ship when there's less then 200 days left. before we assume someone other then an American citizen has no idea of what is goin on in america you have to look at it from several standpoints:

1- We are force fed info by the media. If you don't believe the government controls the media by now, ya have to think again.

2- With that being said, there are other news programs outside of the U.S. that tell it like it is.

3- Just like most members here, we think from outside the box. We keep open minds.(some of us anyways) Maybe before we attack someone for there opinion on the matter, we should see it from there view.

Sorry Arius if I seemed harsh. I love all my fellow Americans and I think as Americans we need to look at things from other perspectives and one of those would be our friends from other countries. God Bless the U.S.

Posters - Honestly, please read the entire thread before responding. Your replys sound foolish if you don't and there are ATS members who are really trying to debate, persuade and strategize.

Can we commit to non-violent forms of dissent and protest? At least until something outrageous happens...but, of course, outrageous would be defined differently by everyone.

What are actions that real people can do everyday, ect.

Thanks to all of the serious posters.

Originally posted by craig732

Why don't YOU stand up to YOUR government when your government allies with the United States while the US is committing all these horrendous acts?

..ok i posted this on page three of this thread i hope it adresses your question

I guess after all that .. i will go first....

1. Nottingham, England.

2. a) likes.. Our government seems to be good at protecting it citizens from the 'percieved terrorist threats lately we are always catching them before or at least in the act.
b) Voter turnout is extremely low in the U.K, if more people spoke up , i think they wouldnt get away with half the things they do.

3. I think the people of the U.S.A should do something peacfull right NOW!!! enough chances Bush, something less peacfull if elections are effected at the end of his term.

4. a) The invasion of Iran and being a part of that, i dont think the U.K citizens currently can take another war anywhere especially under false pretences.
b) I.D cards in the U.k with every bit of information about a person on it, we already have the highest camera count in london per person..(carefull people say it will end up like orwells 1984..OMG open your eyes people it already is!!!)

5. Peacfull everytime but if it threatens my kids i will not only give my life, i will take it as well.

I look forward to hearing from you all .. pls if you already posted try to break it into this format and i will take all results from this point onwards.

ty for reading..

so right now i am starting to stand up and so are a lot of others in the UK now maybe u can answer the original question with an answer about yourself and not another question


oh and to the poster that said Gordon brown was hand picked by blair .....

they were freinds before they got into politics rumor has it they agreed to split the prime minister ship , Mr blair promised to stand down after 2 terms and let Gordon brown take over for his 2 ...he did not and when that happened they fell out big time .... Gordon brown was made prime minister because tony blair stepped down after it was long overdue , as far as i am aware they dont get on at all anymore ..infact Mr brown has hinted at taking our boys out of Iraq as soon as he got the job ..

thanx


[edit on 16/8/07 by Quantum_Squirrel]

I will live a good life. I will raise my children to be smart enough to find answers, and intuitive enough to ask better questions. I will make a better future for this world by the people I will create. I will not let my traditions die. I will defend my fathers house. I will build while I live and rest in peace while I die. That is all I can do but I do it willingly, as it is, my only choice. My only weapon. I will survive all, and so shall my kind. Tommorow may be a bad day, so today I wait for it with a smile.

They want us to end our minds with the illusion of hopelessness. Is it hopeless? Would it be less hopeless if we just beleived in our hope? Our potential. We can still ensure a better future by making it in the minds of our decendants. That is what I shall do. We shall survive though I may not. Nothing new there. I will choose how.

[edit on 16-8-2007 by newyorkee]

Iran has internal unrest. They'll be a long collapsed government in the near future.

Originally posted by tyranny22

That's an awesome image. I know this is off-topic in a sense but I have to say, that's an icon worthy .jpg. Got me to say "Yeah!".

Carry on then!

I'm registered. I vote. Bush will be out of office shortly and a new President will take charge. Hopefully a better one.

Congress could have stopped this war at any time. You don't seem to understand how little power the President actually has? You don't actually believe the Politicians and the Talking Heads on the news do you??? Were you aware that our Congress has the power to stop the war at will and that Bush can not stop them? Congress knows the danger Radical Islam poses to the world. Watch what they do, not what they say.

Clinton was a do nothing. He stood for nothing and he accomplished nothing. His greatest legacy is that since he did nothing he caused very little harm. The President does not have the power to control the Economy. That is a huge Intellectual Lie. He could have done something about the Terrorists but he chose not too. He became President because he was a Charismatic person. Not because he was qualified. He came into office a member of the Middle Class and left office with a flood of cash flowing directly into his bank accounts. There is no honest way to do that. Presidents are not very well paid. How someone as unsuccessful as Clinton made it into the Whitehouse baffles the mind

The most dangerous people on earth right now are those who don't recognize the threat Radical Islam poses to the world. Leaders like Bush are harmless in comparison to those who would sit idly by and watch as Islamic Terrorist take over by force. The Jihadists that are pouring into Europe, including Great Britain, are not there for their health. They are there to take over. What are you prepared to do about that?

skipping the discussion and simply answering the original question,

when either
1.Hillary gets elected
2. Enormous national disaster (terrorist or nature oriented)
3. Economy hits depression scale
4. Draft is approved
5. A group actually gets fed up and starts uprising in the near future (seriously doubt that...)

That is why I am at this site. Looking for people who have finally had it, and want to do something NOW.



(mr fed, i'm at work so you can't trace this to my home BYTE ME!)

Of course Radical Islam is a threat. But so is Radical Christianity. Fascism is fascism; George Bush is no conservative.

Wasn't it Pat Robertson who called for the assassination of Hugo Chavez? Put him on a television set next to some radical cleric from the Middle East. Which is more frightening?

We buy a lot of oil from Hugo Chavez. We buy a lot of oil from the Middle East. Political instability makes oil prices go up. Who benefits?

Think ethanol is the way to energy independence? The best internal combustion engines are only 30% efficient. 70% of the energy you buy, from gasoline or from ethanol, is wasted. Who's getting played?

40,000 highway deaths annually makes effective mass transit a national security priority in my book. I live in a city with a metropolitan area of about 1.5 million people and the busses stop running right at bar time. What gives?

16,000 gun homicides annually and we don't call the United States a war zone? We need peace at home before we can talk about peace in Iraq. Do you know the cost of emergency care for a gunshot wound? If you care about institutional racism, gun violence should be a national security priority. And I don't just mean better enforcement: "the frequency of physical punishment is always a sign of weakness or indolence in the Government" (Rousseau).

Why do terrorists want to attack us? If you ask Middle-Easterners, many will tell you it has to do with our attitude towards Israel, specifically in connection with the Palestinian refugee population. You can see how helpful it is that we went into Iraq to overthrow a secular government, wherein women could go to college and didn't have to cover up, and which was furthermore viewed by Al Qaeda as an enemy, in order to create the world's third largest refugee population after the Palestinians and Sudanese. 2 million displaced Iraqis within Iraq, 2 million fleeing to bordering countries (like Syria). How many Hurricane Katrina's is that? We're spreading freedom around the globe.

Your vote represents the ability to send a message. If the best candidate in the world is running as a Democrat or a Republican, and you vote for that candidate, you send an implicit message that the two-party system is a reasonable way to go about running American politics.

Don't support the two-party system. It's not working for individual US citizens. It's only working for corporations, and the statistical constructs we all like to call "consumers." Don't give up on voting: that helps nobody. But whatever else needs to change, I don't see how anything will get any better while America keeps giving the Two-Party Circus reason to believe they're doing legitimate business.

Help make America Jones the 2008 Presidential nominee for the Mickey Maus Party. Boycott the two-party system.

Organising groups and parties geared towards government reform and change - or lobbying or pressuring existing government into changing its ideals....

used to be democracy..

today you try that

your a terrorist

Genius !


You can try voting if you really believe that.
You can keep believing that it really makes a difference somehow.
You can keep thinking that your enemies are not on the same payroll as those you vote to thwart your enemies.
You can believe you are more important than a resource, a unit of economics, a pawn.

But no matter how much you sing, march, protest, or even blow yourself up ....

You will do as you are told until the rights of you are sold - Frank Zappa

Originally posted by America Jones
Wasn't it Pat Robertson who called for the assassination of Hugo Chavez? Put him on a television set next to some radical cleric from the Middle East. Which is more frightening?

Easy question. The Radical Cleric. Pat Robertson is full of hot air. I don't think anyone that actually listens to his religious broadcasts would decide to go down to South America and knock off Chavez.

The Clerics, on the other hand, seem to have no problem getting some nut fired up enough to set off a bomb in a crowded group of shoppers.

Originally posted by Freeborn

Originally posted by martianvirus
I hate it when people in England give the 'we are better then Americans' speech. It's so lame. England wouldn't even exist if America didn't save them in WWII.

I think youve been watching too many hollywood movies.
You crippled my country financially and only entered the war because of Pearl Harbour, the US most certainly wasn't a knight in shining armour fighting against the evils of fascism. The majority of US citizens wanted nothing to do with the war.

I respect USA and think the world would be a much worse place without her but this does nothing to enhance her reputation so please stop coming out with such unsupportable claims.

The English empire is easilly the most vile, corrupt, and solipsistic entity on the planet. I think you've bumped your head on the learning limb to think for a minute somehow America doesn't follow England, It's not England that's being bullied by America, it's still the entire planet that's being bullied by England, and America. Who do you think taught America everything it knows. The revolutionary war was a fascade, a thrown fight. Anyone that's read New Atlantis knows of the masonic connection and Rothschild connection between America, France, and England, not to mention Germany. I beg anyone study about the greatest English man ever Cecil Rhodes, slaver of Rhodesia. Yes, England what a lovely war mongering planet colonizing beauty. Certainly America didn't learn anything from the English Empire, certainly America and England aren't in bed together in this latest holy war, and certainly America and England have no interest in Israel and keeping Israel on top in the middle east.
Certainly America and England haven't brainwashed their citizens into behaving just like 90% of everyone on this thread. Your nationalism is fascism genius. Your educations tailered to fit your close minded pop deluded existences. You're like Bratz dolls with extra brat, and more credit cards.

[edit on 08/14/2007 by Horus8]

Originally posted by Horus8

The English empire is easilly the most vile, corrupt, and solipsistic entity on the planet. I think you've bumped your head on the learning limb to think for a minute somehow America doesn't follow England,

Wow what a racist attack, England is not or hasn't been an empire for a very very long time we have given it all back and paid them for the trouble.

But ty for your constructive and well thought out comments ..its that type of attitude that is wrong with the world it makes any super power pale in comparison in its viscousness.



[edit on 16/8/07 by Quantum_Squirrel]

What people have to come to learn is that this isn't about America did this, England did that. I'm an American. I didn't do anything. The people 'doing' this stuff are usurping America in the very same way that Islamic terrorists are usurping Islam. Or that 'The Church' usurped Christianity to wage its Crusades. A relatively small group of people with agendas wrap themselves in the trappings of a larger group and go off on their personal conquests.

This may not be popular but... those of us old enough to remember will recall the hysteria in this country about Communists. We had the McCarthy witch hunt with its secret investigations and anonymous informants that sought out likely Communists and Communist sympathizers. Anyone that questioned the government set themselves up for being eviscerated. People's lives and entire familes were ruined. We lived under a constant umbrella of fear that the Commies were coming to get us. During the Vietnam war the proffered rationale was that if we didn't stop the Commies in Vietnam we'd be fighting them at home. They defeated us but I'm still waiting for the Commie invasion.

After the fall of the USSR Communism lost some of its fear impact. So almost immediately we had a new boogieman: middle eastern terrorists. Just like Commies they hate us, hate our lifestyle and are bent on getting over here to the homeland and kicking our collective butt. Why the war in Iraq/Afghanastan? Say it with me now... if we don't stop the terrorists over there we'll be fighting them at home. Bullwafers.

They want us out of the Middle East. They don't believe we have a right to be there meddling in their affairs. Kinda the same stance the terrorists in Northern Ireland took when the British were occupying Northern Ireland. And rest assured, if another country attempted to occupy the USA we'd do the same thing. I say, if they want to come over here and screw with us on our home field, let them come. If they think they're wreaking havoc on us over there let them try it here.

I'm sure there are radical islamic terrorists that are looking for the opportunity to do us harm. I'm sure there are any number of people from any number of groups with the same intent. But going from country-to-country, destroying lives and property and turning their populations into refugees will never, ever make the situation better.

Originally posted by Quantum_Squirrel

Originally posted by Horus8

The English empire is easilly the most vile, corrupt, and solipsistic entity on the planet. I think you've bumped your head on the learning limb to think for a minute somehow America doesn't follow England,

Wow what a racist attack, England is not or hasn't been an empire for a very very long time we have given it all back and paid them for the trouble.

But ty for your constructive and well thought out comments ..its that type of attitude that is wrong with the world it makes any super power pale in comparison in its viscousness.



[edit on 16/8/07 by Quantum_Squirrel]

Really, and how pray tell did you pay the Indians and Zulus back?
By giving them back the land that was already their land before England invaded and colonized. Oh, you mean like how England pays the Irish back, a sort of you kill us, we kill you, you kill us, we kill you?
That's brilliant, and after the Boar wars how exactly did you pay the Africans back in South Africa and Rhodesia? Oh, I see, by taking all of their oil, diamonds, gold, and land in the name of the Queen.
Yes, that's a brilliant pay back. Cheers
As far as I'm concerned any nation that bows before a bloodline
of claimed royal descent might as well be bowing to the devil.
Men should look up, not down. America's fortunes and England's
fortunes, they are one in the same.

[edit on 08/14/2007 by Horus8]