Recently, this question has been asked in several different ways by several different people on several different threads. It is an IMPORTANT question. There has been little serious discussion or debate. Enough with the one/off comments... does anybody want to talk about this in a serious, in-depth way?

i agree people seem to be avoiding the topic, is it because their scared?, they feel powerless? or they feel safe in the knowledge that mcdonalds will still be open tommorrow?

i mean surely if millions of people march to the front door of the whitehouse demanding resignation something would happen?

maybe its a minority view.. maybe there isnt enough people to make a difference but what i have seen , read and heard over the past few months .. there are a lot of people that want to do atleast something.?

"Most intelligent president"?? Well, that can be debated. Isn't this the guy (and his wife) with the shady Whitewater deals, last minute pardons for money, and I don't want to even get into the deals with China that probably screwed the US over one way or another.

Everything depends on WHY these events happened. Martial law declared due to a disaster? An invasion against another country that may have invaded one of our allies? A nuke fired because of the destruction of an allies city from one (I don't think we'd do a first strike with a nuke without one happening first.)

I think this is interesting that this thread is authored by someone who does not live within the united states and as such has no vested interest either way. First off we have no reason to openly rebel against our government. Why, our form of government is functioning the way it should. As long as the form of our government operates according to the way it is directed in the constitution we will continue to be good americans.

That being said you should never underestimate the american people when it comes to defending their rights. Our ancestors fought the war of northern aggression in order to defend their right to self determination. It was the bloodiest war in our history and to my knowledge dwarfs any other civil war in terms of lives lost and suffering encountered.

No one does really. Unless the proverbial hits the fan. Often we're all too divided. We only really unite in the face of disaster. We should then certainly, but equally certainly, when we can quarrel and thrash out new ideas, we should use that time also.

Originally posted by arius
I think this is interesting that this thread is authored by someone who does not live within the united states and as such has no vested interest either way. First off we have no reason to openly rebel against our government. Why, our form of government is functioning the way it should. As long as the form of our government operates according to the way it is directed in the constitution we will continue to be good americans.

That being said you should never underestimate the american people when it comes to defending their rights. Our ancestors fought the war of northern aggression in order to defend their right to self determination. It was the bloodiest war in our history and to my knowledge dwarfs any other civil war in terms of lives lost and suffering encountered.

1. I am a citizen of this planet and have every right to have an opinion, especially when your footprints are all over the world.

2. we are allies arn't we .. when ever you try to drum up support whos the first to stand shoulder to shoulder with you?.. are you saying you just want our soldiers to die for your causes but dont want to hear our opinions about them?

3. so RE: points one and two i have very much a vested interest in what your country does as it directly seems to be effecting the world as a whole.

I hate it when people in England give the 'we are better then Americans' speech. It's so lame. England wouldn't even exist if America didn't save them in WWII.

Originally posted by Quantum_Squirrel


1. I am a citizen of this planet and have every right to have an opinion, especially when your footprints are all over the world.

2. we are allies arn't we .. when ever you try to drum up support whos the first to stand shoulder to shoulder with you?.. are you saying you just want our soldiers to die for your causes but dont want to hear our opinions about them?

3. so RE: points one and two i have very much a vested interest in what your country does as it directly seems to be effecting the world as a whole.

I'm not saying that your soldiers have stood shoulder to shoulder with ours. I am talking about the right and responsibility of self determination. The United Kingdom has had its footprints all over the world for centuries. The UK rebuking the US for this is the epitomy of hypocrisy.

I don't believe we should be interfering with countries right of self determination whether it be iraq or venezuela or england. My point is that you are sitting in another country trying to create insurrection in my country. Its as simple as that. The United States is our country and you have no right to tell us that we should rebel against our government.

Originally posted by martianvirus
I hate it when people in England give the 'we are better then Americans' speech. It's so lame. England wouldn't even exist if America didn't save them in WWII.

would you like to show me the quote of me saying 'we are better than americans speech?' i would love to see it because it would be the greatest hoax of all time since i didnt say that ..i asked what would be enough for our 'american brothers' that implies thats how i feel about your country..

i refuse to let you derail this thread with the second sentence in your post , that argument is so old, and its very LATE in the day here.

Quantum,
Whilst I agree with you that as a citizen of the planet and of the USA's allegedly greatest ally you have every right to ask the question you did.
In turn I would ask you; when are you prepared to stand up for your country because as I see it, and practically everyone else I know, OUR country is rapidly going to the dogs.

We allow politicians, of every persuasion, to actively disregard the will of it's people and kowtow to everyone and anyone else.
We display the moral backbone of an amoeba at present and are allowing the very fibre of British Society to be attacked from all angles.

One of the main things I have taken from ATS is that my stereotyped image of Americans has been disproven I am pleased to say there seems to be enough Americans aware of the current situation that they can put their own house in order, or at least try to.
Can the same be said about OUR country, I very much doubt it, we have become a nation of whingers and moaners who actually do very little in practical terms and it breaks my heart every single day to witness the country I love so much deteriate so much.

I agree that people feel powerless or hopeless or both. Maybe, for some, the issues just seem too big to overcome.

Can I stop a terrorist attack? Probably not. Can I reform our gov't? Probably not. Will a march on Washington really change anything? Probably not. But I have a mouth. I have a keyboard. I have a vote.

I can can communicate my LOGICAL, RATIONAL, WELL-FORMULATED arguments against the status quo of our current society to all of my friends and family. I can speak out publicly against the status quo. I can refuse to be marginalized, bullied or shouted down. I can refuse to let the powers-that-be control me or my opinions under threat of retailiation or public humiliation. I can be professional and polite in my demeanor -because they will only use my shrillness me. I can remain calm and logical (not hysterical) when sheeple counter my arguements with their programming, otherwise they will stop listening. I can encourage my fellow ATS members to do the same.

The more people who consistently take this same approach, the faster we can change the course of this country.

Originally posted by martianvirus
I hate it when people in England give the 'we are better then Americans' speech. It's so lame. England wouldn't even exist if America didn't save them in WWII.

LOL!!

How old are you?
12?

The United Kingdom has had its footprints all over the world for centuries.

got me there were guilty of empire building 100%

My point is that you are sitting in another country trying to create insurrection in my country. Its as simple as that. The United States is our country and you have no right to tell us that we should rebel against our government.

This is not true i am not attempting to create insurrection in your country, i am asking the american people here on ATS what would be the straw that broke the camels back? and when that straw breaks what would/could you do about it?

I'm disappointed that hardly any of the posts have given a direct answer to Quantum's very salient question. It's easy to be pithy, point fingers or be sarcastic...it's much harder to come up with an answer.

Originally posted by martianvirus
I hate it when people in England give the 'we are better then Americans' speech. It's so lame. England wouldn't even exist if America didn't save them in WWII.

I think youve been watching too many hollywood movies.
You crippled my country financially and only entered the war because of Pearl Harbour, the US most certainly wasn't a knight in shining armour fighting against the evils of fascism. The majority of US citizens wanted nothing to do with the war.

I respect USA and think the world would be a much worse place without her but this does nothing to enhance her reputation so please stop coming out with such unsupportable claims.

I'm not going to check back to this thread. Before I leave, I just wanted to remind the creator of this thread that he was the one questioning things America does. I've spent a lot of time on chat services with video and audio. They are full of guys just like this. All they can do is talk about how bad America is. I'm just saying I don't want to hear it. I've been up for two days. Good night.

Originally posted by Freeborn

In turn I would ask you; when are you prepared to stand up for your country because as I see it, and practically everyone else I know, OUR country is rapidly going to the dogs.

i am prepared to stand up with people of a like minded nature and views right now.

maybe this is my first step? wanna take that step with me?

something needs to be done before its to late for us all! this needs to be done both at home and abroad but with our recent letting go of Blair. i believe the rumblings are starting anyway in our political circles regarding current foreign policy.

Martianvirus

I'm not going to check back to this thread. Before I leave, I just wanted to remind the creator of this thread that he was the one questioning things America does. I've spent a lot of time on chat services with video and audio. They are full of guys just like this. All they can do is talk about how bad America is. I'm just saying I don't want to hear it. I've been up for two days. Good night.

dude u need to go to bed your seeing things that arnt there america is bad is said no where in this thread except your posts.

i am not questioning what america does....i am asking a question Of americans .. what are YOU going to do when/if the time comes.

[edit on 15/8/07 by Quantum_Squirrel]

Originally posted by Quantum_Squirrel
This is not true i am not attempting to create insurrection in your country, i am asking the american people here on ATS what would be the straw that broke the camels back? and when that straw breaks what would/could you do about it?

Now were being constructive!

As currently stands a significant percentage of the united states population are freedom loving, gun toting, NRA card carrying rugged individualists. Thats what most of the americans I know are like. I think that the world sees what hollywood and our media lets them see. More people know whats going on than you would think. You would really be surprised to know how many people walking around are packing heat. We have a line that just won't be crossed, period. Win, lose or draw it doesn't matter but you'll know we had a hold of you.

With the pep talk finished I think the straw that would break the camels back would be a military take over of mainland USA by our own military or some other direct abrogation of the constitution taking away our right to vote.

Quantum,
you give me hope that maybe it's not too late to turn back the tide.

I am more than prepared to stand up, starting right here, right now.

And I agree, it requires the same effort in all countries.
This madness has to stop.

"What happened to my green and pleasant land?"