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JFK Assassination: John Connally - A Question of Position and Angle

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posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 07:08 PM
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Hello Mr. Marrs,

I would like to ask a question concerning the JFK assassination. I had a thread previously (I will apologize upfront because my account is gimped up right now and I can't find the thread) in which I discuss the position, the movement after impact, and the angle reported for the entrance/exit of the shot to Connally's chest/back. I would truly like to hear your input on this matter.

Video 1

Video 2

Summary: John Connally was clearly not hit by the bullet that struck Kennedy in the neck area as he is seen in the Zapruder film reading a pamphlet after the president shows signs of physical distress from this first strike. He is not shot from back to chest nor from chest to back by the shot that strikes Kennedy's head because he is turned sideways to the president when this shot occurs. But he does exhibit being struck from front to back while facing to the right of the car and falls back toward Nellie at that point.

Conclusion: I believe the Zapruder film shows Connally being struck from chest to back while facing to the right side of the car and then possibly getting the wrist/thigh wounds while in this sideways position when the president is struck in the head.

Question: Will you please give your thoughts on this matter?

(P.S. This is the first time I've tried my photobucket account with a video. If the quality is atrocious I will ask that the admin here at ATS allow me to have my videos put here. But I'm thinking you probably have a really good quality copy of the Zapruder film and its separate frames and can sufficiently investigate everything I put out in my video.)

Thank you so much.

[edit on 8-14-2007 by Valhall]

UPDATE: WMV Versions of videos uploaded to our high-speed media network.

[edit on 17-8-2007 by SkepticOverlord]




posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 05:50 PM
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Mr. Marrs,

I have to apologize. Apparently my video links are not working. I'm going to get hold of admin and request they host my videos.

I'm very sorry for this inconvenience.


+7 more 
posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 05:52 PM
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Howdy Valhall,

Thanks for such a pertinent and perceptive question about the "magic bullet" which, according to the Warren Commission, passed through both JFK and Texas Gov. John Connally. Unfortunately when I went to Photobucket, its stated that the pages were no longer there.

But, based on my own 43 years of research, I can tell you this as absolute fact --- no bullet passed through JFK's body. The head shot obviously fragmented and did not reach Connally. His throat shot, described by all Dallas medical personnel as a puncture wound -- in other words an entrance wound -- entered the front of his neck at about the level of his Adam's Apple and did not penetrate his neck. The back wound came from behind and entered at the third thoracic vertebra, which is below the shoulder blades. The autopsy doctors tried to probe this wound and found they could not track it through the body, in other words it did not pass through JFK's body, nor did it strike bone and therefore could not have sudden changed to an upward trajectory to exit his throat.

Connally obviously was struck by two separate slugs, one of which struck near the rear of his right armpit, shattered his right lung and exited near the right nipple on his chest. Standard ballistics deny that this slug could have entered his right wristbone and then swerved into his left thigh, the site of his final wound. Therefore, it would seem that a second slug came from the right side, entered his right wrist shattering the most dense bone in the upper body, and it, or fragments from it, ended up in the left thigh. Of course, to admit all this would mean that JFK and Connally were struck by a minimum of five shots, far too many for a lone assassin acting within 6 seconds. And what was to the right of the limousine at the time of Connally's wounding? The infamous Grassy Knoll.



posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 11:01 PM
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Just a minor heads up on the Connelly shot.

Many researchers agree that Connelly was first shot at about frame Z238-9 when his cheeks puff out and his hair is disarranged. Connelly claims he was struck at about Z234, and his chest surgeon, Robert Shaw believes the shot was at Z236 plus or minus two frames. His wrist surgeon Charles Gregory believes he was hit between Z234 and Z238.

www.assassinationresearch.com...

The white object he is holding in his hand is not a pamphlet, but his white Stetson hat.

I seriously doubt that Connelly was hit by any GN shooter, trying to hit JFK, since that would mean the shooter was a very poor shot, and, he'd have to reload or rechamber to shoot JFK as is often claimed. (though it's possible that JFK could have been shot from one of the storm drains)



posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 11:07 PM
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Originally posted by Badge01

The white object he is holding in his hand is not a pamphlet, but his white Stetson hat.




I don't believe this is correct.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 08:20 AM
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Try searching google on:

connelly stetson jfk

You'll see several references including a quote from Jim Garrison.

Do you have a cite for him holding a pamphlet, or is this just something you are visualizing?

Couldn't find an actual photo on the web, but here's a diagram in one of the popular assassination books:



[edit on 18-8-2007 by Badge01]



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 10:04 AM
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No, I don't have a site. He reads the pamphlet, folds it up and goes to stick it in his inside jacket pocket right before he makes the right hand turn to try to see the president. That's why I don't believe the stetson explanation can be right...I don't think he can fold his stetson up and stick it in his jacket pocket.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 10:57 AM
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Those Texans never go anywhere without their Stetsons:





posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 10:57 AM
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I'm not saying he didn't own one. I'm saying I do not believe that is his stetson in the frames we're discussing.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 12:02 PM
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Would you accept a direct quote by Connelly saying he was holding his hat?

How about a blowup of the frame showing a hat-shaped white object?

What about a confirmation from Jim Marrs that it was his hat we see?


[edit on 18-8-2007 by Badge01]



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 03:23 PM
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Well, it's the "magic Stetson" then - to go along with the magic bullet. Because it's foldable, readable, you can decide to put it in your inside jacket pocket if you so desire, and you can even grab the door of a car while it's still in your hand...that's one remarkable morphing Stetson.

Connally said he got hit when he turned back around as well - he was wrong on that one, too.

As far as the "hat-shaped" white object, did you happen to see the thread where I found Yoshi sitting in the backseat with Jackie and the President? I believe I created that post in response to some one who drew shapes on Kennedy assassination pictures. It reminds me of a guy I knew who could find starfish and spoons in Mars pics.

[edit on 8-18-2007 by Valhall]



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 12:46 PM
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The shooting of Gov. Connally may not have been accidental. Years ago I interviewed an attorney named Carroll Jarnagin, who told me he overheard a conversation while in Jack Ruby's Carousel Club in early October, 1963, to see a client, one of Ruby's strippers. Jarnagin said he saw Ruby nearby talking to man he did not know but he heard the man tell Ruby, "Don't use my real name. I am going by the name of O.H. Lee." This was the name Lee Oswald used to rent his room on North Beckley Street. After the assassination, Jarnigan said he recognized Oswald as the man he overheard talking with Ruby. The talk was about killing Connally. "Connally won't work with us...we could really open up this state.." Ruby said. They discussed how Oswald could shoot Connally from the Carousel Club and then escape out a back door. Oswald wanted money in advance but Ruby said he would get paid in one lump sum after the job was done. The thing that sets Jarnagin's story apart from other reports of Oswald and Ruby seen together is that, due to the criminal nature of this conversation, Jarnagin reported this plot to Texas authorities PRIOR to the assassination.

Jim Marrs



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 12:43 AM
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reply to post by Jim Marrs
 


If one accepts this, a conversation between "Lee" and Ruby to kill Connally, then was JFK an accident? A mere by-product of their intervention in purely Texas politics?

IF the original conspiracy was to kill JFK, then what was this overheard talk? "Lee" wanting extra for whacking Connally as well?

Not that I discount it, but it's hard to figure out how this possible other motive fits in to the shooting. Its hard for me to imagine either 1) Connally as the sole intended victim, and JFK was an accident, or 2) Trying to kill two major political figures at once--it seems a bomb would be much more effective if both targets were imperative.

What about the possibility that this conversation was heard as reported, but was a plant, a "red herring" or false flag to cover the truth with yet another series of veils, to insure that history would never get to the bottom of the shooting.

I guess I'm asking, "what would it mean for an investigator to take this story seriously?"


I've written elsewhere on ATS that there's a similarity between the JFK murder and UFO's. The problem with both is, there is so much contradictory evidence, that every investigator develops a pet theory and starts excluding evidence that doesn't advance their paradigm. Sometimes I wonder with both investigations, if the perpetrators of the respective phenomena are not actively creating false leads.

.



posted on Sep, 5 2007 @ 06:24 PM
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Howdy dr_strangecraft,

Actually, I agree that the conversation between Ruby and Oswald (and the evidence for the fact that they knew each other is overwhelming) was a red herring. But not for future investigators but rather for Oswald. Oswald, as a low-level US Government intelligence agent, knew a plot was afoot and may have even begun to suspect that he was going to the set up as the patsy. Hence, he was misdirected by being told that the plot was to kill Gov. Connally, which by the way, he protested against, saying it was too dangerous. There is another aspect to this in that the actual assassins may have been told to kill the two men in the back of the limousine. Sen. Ralph Yarborough once told me of the squabble over who would get to sit in the limousine with JFK. He said Johnson was urging him to sit with the President but he objected, stating it rightly should be the state governor. He said Kennedy ended the squabbling by telling Connally to get in the car with him. This puts a whole new understanding to Connally’s famous and documented cry when shots began impacting. He did not yell “Someone’s shooting at us!” or “I’ve been shot!” Instead, he cried out, “My God, they’re going to kill us all.” It’s almost implied that, “I knew they were going to kill Kennedy, but, my God, they’re going to kill us all.” If Yarborough had been in the car, they could have killed the president and a political rival in one fell swoop. One added thought: misdirection which may have been applied to Oswald also may have been used on Ruby. One of Ruby’s girls who visited him in jail, told me that she voiced sympathy for Ruby’s situation and he told her that everything was going to be alright. He said the world would be told he died from cancer but that he would be secreted off to South America for a happy retirement. Now, I don’t believe for one minute that this occurred. But I do think that someone told Ruby that to keep him passive and quiet. And even though he publicly echoed the party line, there are still a number of astounding comments on the record made by Ruby implicating persons at high levels in the federal government.

Jim Marrs



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 01:29 PM
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Silencers were available in 1963. The only reason for multiple guman placed in various spots without silencers are to divert the publics attention. I dont care how much you wanna see the President when bullets are flying you are running and hitting the deck. The cause mass confusion and divert attention away form either the Limo driver firing the final shot or a device in the card firing the shot.

Why would the First Lady climb out of the car. The car is the safest spot from gunmen outside. Drop and duck. She was getting the # out the car to get away form Greer or the device. It just makes no sense that people putting together this murder plot would not use silencers ither than if it had an intended purpose. My .02.



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 02:03 PM
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I've heard some additional thoughts on the matter.

Some theorize that some players thought the 'shooting' was going to be a scare tactic and that no one was going to murder anyone.

I've heard that the shot that hit Connally may have come from the Dallas County Records building, which was a separate trajectory from any shot at JFK.

But notice a couple things.

Nobody shot Jackie, nobody shot either the driver or the front seat passenger and nobody shot Nellie Connally.

In a 'real' hit job, with no conspiracy angle, what would the teams do?

First they would frequently take out the driver. This would stop the car, allowing the other shooters a stationary shot.

They would then nearly simultaneously shoot the intended victim(s) and then if they were worried about witnesses, take out other people in the area.

Why didn't someone shoot Zapruder? It was pretty clear he was videoing the event. (I'm being a little dramatic here).

It seems pretty likely that the instructions were.
1. Shoot Kennedy;
2. Don't hit Jackie;
3. Implicate Oswald.

It may have included:
3. Scare John Connally. (wound)

The very fact that the driver wasn't shot (though he ducked, it appears) is quite suggestive.

In addition, though they were hiding, none of the 'shooters' appeared to be very worried about being caught. Though I think there were probably three teams (sniper and spotter), not all of them may have known about each other completely. Could this have caused any of the misses? Maybe one whole team had the assignment of 'diversionary shots'. Someone fired into the infield. Someone fired the shot that hit the curb. Hard to say.

They knew one thing, or so they thought. Shooting at the target while in a motorcade would virtually guarantee that none of the SS agents in the parade would stay behind and all would jump on top of the president and first lady, and the vice president, and then speed off out of the area.

Now this makes sense to the layperson but is it rational as a SS action plan? I mean do you have 8-10 agents in the follow car tasked to ride along to the hospital? Why?

If, indeed, the SS were not 'in on it', I've no doubt that a typical plan for a motorcade shooting would not have every single one of the agents stay in the car and drive away. At least a couple would jump off the car and stay behind to:

1. get the snipers and return fire;
2. investigate, and
3. cover the escape.

That this didn't happen speaks volumes to me. Of course normally they would have accessory coverage on the ground, but these personnel were told to 'stand down'.

So, not only didn't the SS save the president, or even try to (excepting Agent Clint Hill), they also didn't 'get' the shooters, didn't return fire and virtually fled the scene.

We don't know typical SS action plans, but I seriously doubt this was one of them, except on that day in 1963.

2 cents.


[edit on 19-7-2008 by Badge01]



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by Badge01
 
PRETTY SIMPLE TO FIGURE THIS OUT RUBY GOT OSWALD TO SHOOT AT CONALLY IN THE MEANTIME RUBY WORKED WITH MAFIA TO KILL KENNEDY RUBY KILLED OSWALD TO KEEP HIM QUIET RUBY WAS SAFER IN JAIL THAN ON THE STRRETS RUBY WOULDN'T TALK WOULD HAVE BEEN MOST HATED PERSON IN THE WORLD THUS OSWALDS REMARK I'M A PASTY



posted on Nov, 18 2008 @ 01:52 AM
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I am very certain Connolly was shot back to front. I am also certain you can see the shooter in the picture. Watch the three people on the grass just before he starts showing he is hurt. You see what looks like a camera flash however it is the wrong shape to be camera flash and the wrong color to be camera flash. It is however perfect to be Mussel Flash.

As to the comments in the video. They fail to point out one thing about Connolly's actions and such. You can be shot and not know it for a period of time till your nervous system/ brain decides to let you know. So it is possible he was hit by a bullet that passed through Kennedy if you believe Oswald fired a single shot.

You might also want to look at video's from the other side of the street as well. My personal view is that he was shot by someone on the side walk to the front of the car. Probably had a gun hidden as a camera. If he was knelt down taking shots as the car approached it would have given the perfect trajectory path. Also while most people went toward the vehicles trying to see what was wrong or didn't realized what happened and stood still you see one person running from the area, why he knew what just went down and he needed to get away. The shots may have sounded like they came from a distance do to poor silencing.



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 05:04 AM
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reply to post by Anonymous ATS
 


Howdy Anonymous ATS,

Both myself and the medical evidence agree with you that Gov. Connally was shot from back to front. But this obviates the idea that he was shot by a bystander to the front of the car. It also seems clear that Connally was shot twice -- one bullet entering his back near the right armpit, shattering his fifth rib and exiting near the right front nipple on his chest. A second shot passed through his right wrist and then entered his left thigh. Both shots apparently came from some elevation to his right rear. It is not possible that either of these bullets first passed through JFK, who most likely was hit by four bullets -- one to his back (third thoracic vertebrae) from the rear, a second from the front to his throat, and two almost simultaneously to the right side of his head. Of the head shots, one entered from the rear followed a split second later by a shot from the front to his right temple which drove him to his right rear and opened up the right side of his head.

Some debunkers have tried to argue that Connally could have been shot and not known it or not reacted for several seconds. This is highly doubtful as any bullet striking bone (his fifth rib and his wrist bone) would be immediately felt and his body would have reacted.

Jim Marrs



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 05:30 AM
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Greetings Mr. Marrs.

So the conclusion is.....

A. Definately more than one gunman, which implies a conspiracy to assasinate Kennedy and possibly Connally too.

B. The same old song and dance....one lone gunman...3 bullets...a book repository building...blah blah.


Well sir Im not any bullistics expert nor am I any expert in figuring out the dynamic geometry of moving targets vs aim and angles vs bullet speed vs wind variables etc etc...but I trust my eyes when seeing that Zapruda film and watching Kennedy's head move back and to the left upon projectile impact at the front right temple.

Question: After all of the analysis, does government really think that they can continue with the 3 bullet one gunman BS?

Thank you for your participation and answers in ATS.



Cheers!!!!!






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