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Dogs...good or bad idea?

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posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by Anuubis
 


I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but you can't exactly say that only the "good" qualities of a dog are bred in and the bad ones are socialized. Yeh?

Like Dobs, Shepherd's, Malinois, etc are bred to be aggressive, protective dogs. IF you are educated on how to maintain a pack, I am sure you can work with whatever breed. But we're talking best out of the box, I thought. Like what would be the best dog if you have to survive and that would be a dog that is smart, protective, low maintenance, and gentle to the right people.

So, even tho they aren't my favorite dog (Saints are), I threw out standard poodle because they are all those things.

You take the average pit bull. It has a bull dog temperament and was bred to have particular characteristics. In a family that doesn't curb those, the dog could be hostile (hence all of the recent pit bull related deaths). EDITED: I know there are dog educators who do well with this breed--so pitbull lovers don't kill me. I'm talking right smack out of the box, little work involved.

Because there are some dogs that are low maintenance-training wise. You rarely (if at all) hear of say death by poodle, or death by Newfoundland, but you do hear about Rottweiler deaths, pitbull deaths, etc.

Also, I rarely hear of Shepherd's going bad...

I guess that's my question...out of the box would you put a malinois around children? The average old Belgian Malinois.



[edit on 30-11-2008 by Rintendo]




posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by Anuubis
Like i said, it's all in how they are raised. My dads dobeman loved kids, and loved being mauled by them.


Well if you mean "raised" you mean both the kids AND the dogs. It is partly how they are raised, but different breeds DO have different temperaments. If you raised a Jack Russell puppy with a litter of Basset Hounds, the Jack Russell will still be a whirlwhind of energy and business.

Same thing with pits, many of those dogs have been genetically altered by intentional bad breeding. The pit I had was 6 months when I got her, no signs of physical abuse, and the signs are usually quite obvious. She had some serious psychological issues and they got worse by the day. There are insane people, and there are some crazy dogs (it is not their fault, but some are truly not balanced). The problem with pits is the human trash that breeds them to BE insane. We need to address the human factor before they move onto destroying another breed.

[edit on 30-11-2008 by Sonya610]



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 10:50 AM
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reply to post by angryamerican
 

You obviously couldn't detect the sarcasm there. And yes, i am an arrogant person, thanks. But at least i'm not being an ass.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by Rintendo
I guess that's my question...out of the box would you put a malinois around children? The average old Belgian Malinois.


It depends on what you mean by "the average Malinois". The breeding is ALL important. Strong breeds such as these must be bred for temperament. And then, absolutely, I would have these breeds around a baby or children. In fact, I know a family who has a Mal and a black GSD. They have had 2 children and the dogs are very much trustworthy about the babes.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Thank you! I really was curious because I heard a Malinois was not just protection but had "sight hound" bred into them, and that means you can't have kids or cats because their first instinct is to go after movement.

Like a greyhound + shepherd mix.

Still give me a drooling giant. Ours could pull the kids around in a cart, the St Bernard, that is. I love big fluffy couch potatoes.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 10:58 AM
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I must admit that my knowledge of pure blood pits is seriously lacking having never worked with them. How ever we use to go out of our way to find the pit mixes. In S&R it is that single mindedness that was mentioned earlier that is a desired trate. I have worked with a doberman he didn't make it thru the training. I like boxers especially when there mixed. The slobbering gets annoying. they have the single mindedness of pittbulls with the energy of labs.

Labs are great to but unfortunately there hip problems tend to ruin a career early.

No I didn't detect any sarcasm. Sorry I missed it. Ass for being a ass not the first time Ive been accused of that nor the last. By the way I would like to hear more about your experiences with the wolves. not sure its fit for this thread tho So I will do it in U2U.



[edit on 30-11-2008 by angryamerican]



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by RintendoThank you! I really was curious because I heard a Malinois was not just protection but had "sight hound" bred into them, and that means you can't have kids or cats because their first instinct is to go after movement.


Oh I am sure that is not the case. They are sentient, not machines. If they are raised around cats and children they will see them as members of the household/pack. The issue usually becomes "strange cats or children" that run and trigger the prey drive, or dominance issues.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by Rintendo
 

I know you weren't being arguementative. All animals have their own personality, but how it forms is mainly determined by external influence during the growth process. You take two kids in different homes, one a caring home, the other an abusive home. You know how the kids are going to turn out. Animals are the same way.
Just picking an "out of the box" dog, it would be a german shepherd.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by angryamerican
 


My other favorite dog is the boxer. I had a boxer and a St. The boxer was the Wayne Gretsky of all dogs. He was so smart and loyal and aggressive when he had to be. I loved his fat cheeks and pinched them daily.

However, they can't do extreme heat or extreme cold well so unless you are surviving in the mid-Atlantic region I think a different dog would be more appropriate.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by angryamerican
 

I had a pit/lab mix that was a very smart dog. She also never had any problems with her hips thankfully. She would climb a tree to get cats though. Pits as a purebreed are not a good choice.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by Sonya610
 


True, true. I know that my friend really worked hard with her greyhound so that they could have the greyhound and the cat, too, but again..worked really hard with the animal.

I was asking more of an out of the box question.

Most people with survival on their mind and perhaps families won't be out there daily training the dog/pet (tho maybe they should be).



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by Rintendo
 

You definately don't want a greyhound. Yeah their fast, but they tire easily. They have no real endurance. That is why i say get a shepherd. They are strong, fast, and have great endurance.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by angryamerican
I have worked with a doberman he didn't make it thru the training.


Yeah modern American bred Dobies are smart and protective but often a bit emotional. When doing rescue we sometimes got requests for a "service dog". That was always a problem, service dogs require the most perfect temperaments, and the rescue dogs that had perfect temperaments (young, easygoing, not too hyper, likes other animals, smart, easily trainable, etc...) had their choice of top knotch homes that would lavish attention on them and spoil them rotten. The dog came first, so the best among them got the best homes, and never went into any service program.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 11:15 AM
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I owned a full timber wolf that I got as a cub. He got seven feet long and weighed 175 pounds. Didn't bark, as he was never raised with other dogs and never learned.

Since we got him as a cub, we were his "pack" and since he was the lesser within the pack, he knew his place in the "pecking order" and was both subservient and super loyal to the family, even my small ones.

Wolves got a bad rap through little red riding hood and such, and are some of the most loving, fun-to-be-with animals ever designed to be good, contributing companions. They'll feed themselves, and you can actually hunt together.

They don't realize just how big and powerful they are, and yet they are especially loving around the smallest children. Patient, loving, gentle, and loyal to a fault.

And they don't keep you up all night barking.

Something to think about.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Really? Wow, so much info today.

My brother has a wolf hybrid and the dog is GREAT for him, great with the neighbor kids and terrible with other dogs. My brother has taken him to obedience training, reads all those books, and has no kids so he can work with him all day long, but absolutely cannot prevent the dog from snapping and attacking smaller dogs.

Any advice? He's even gone to those dog whispering clinics.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by dooper
 

In the animal kingdom, wolves are the closest to humans. They have all the emotional bonds, family orientations, and friendship qualities of the human race. Except they won't stab you in the back like humans.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by Rintendo
 

I have a german shepherd/ wolf mix and he loves all animals. If another dog starts something with him, he finishes it quick. But other than that he will play with any animals. He really loves cats and ferrets.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by RintendoMy brother has a wolf hybrid and the dog is GREAT for him, great with the neighbor kids and terrible with other dogs.


Never had a wolf but my advice would be keep him away from smaller dogs or use a MUZZLE if he MUST be around them! Wolves are supposedly racist, they are not fond of dogs, no doubt a smart trait as wolves are superior to their domestic counterparts in many ways, and if they bred with domesticated dogs their offspring would lose those traits.

If that is his nature and his preference (he hates dogs) then find a way to work around his issues while keeping everyone safe. A wolf is a spectacular animal, choosing to own one means accepting their differences, otherwise one could choose to own a cocker spaniel.

[edit on 30-11-2008 by Sonya610]



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by Sonya610

Yeah modern American bred Dobies are smart and protective but often a bit emotional.


That was exactly why king didn't make it. At the last private trials we upped the stress level, he shut down. He found a hole laid down and wouldn't get back up to finish the trials. in other words he cracked under the stress. With his new family he does agility training almost every week end in the summer. he excels at that.

I don't think a person should get a dog or dogs for survival purposes but if they are going to get a dog any way they should train it to help in survival. I also believe that muts make the best pets and dogs for survival.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by Sonya610
 


And see...I would rather own the cocker spaniel for this reason. My brother does have to muzzle his dog. Again, the only dog his deferred to was my St. Bernard. I just don't have that kind of time or energy to devote to an animal. If I have to work constantly to keep it from killing the neighbor's bichon or beagle then that really cuts into the reason for having a dog for me at this point in my life.

I wanna take it to the park and play frisbee, not worry if it will make a frisbee out of a shih tsu.

My St. Bernard while alpha basically was kind to everything smaller than it. Kind of like a boxer. If the dog was bigger it got a little fronty (but since very few dogs are bigger than a St. Bernard it wasn't an issue).

I love dogs and I agree that there are no worthless dogs, I just don't know if I have the time or energy for the muzzling. Plus, after witnessing the dog attack a smaller dog, I just wouldn't trust it. Even tho I've never seen him hurt humans he was vicious with the smaller dog and I just haven't been easy with it since.





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