Russia Claims North Pole in Global Race for Oil

If Russia plants a flag in the North Pole to make claims they own it to the world, then doesn't that mean America owns the moon?

Would Russia have objections to that?

Under international law, no country currently owns the North Pole or the region of the Arctic Ocean surrounding it. The five surrounding Arctic states, Russia, the United States, Canada, Norway and Denmark (via Greenland), are limited to a 320 kilometre (200-mile) economic zone around their coasts, and the area beyond that is administered by the International Seabed Authority.

Upon ratification of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, a country has a ten year period to make claims to extend its 200 mile zone. Norway (ratified the convention in 1996), Russia (ratified in 1997), Canada (ratified in 2003) and Denmark (ratified in 2004) have all launched projects to base claims that certain Arctic sectors should belong to their territories.

en.wikipedia.org...


So since Russia ratified in 1997, it makes sense that 10 years later that they try to have additional land, according to this claims agreement thinger.

But if Russia sent Submarines that may be military ones, i thought that no country can send military apparatus stuff to the North or South Pole, that most countries agreed that both Poles would not be used militaristcly but only for reasearch and science. Only the North Pole i think or the Artic are used in the MAD scenario for Nuclear war. But IDK, we'll just see what will unfold in due time......

As long as we're coming up with crazy flag schemes, how about this:

We plant two MLRS systems at the edge, and fire each respective payload -- Which is made to cover about a square mile.

Can you imagine the Russia's arriving, and finding something like fourty-thousand, tiny, weighted American flags?
It'd be glorious.

In other news: If Russia claims any more oil, then they might atually be able to bully larger countries around. This is all pretty absurd.

Edit: Considering how often anything that's meant to come out of a Russian submarine actually works, maybe it'll just *Pfoot!* out the edge of the flag, and leave it dangling an inch from the ground.

[edit on 2-8-2007 by Iblis]

"Look, this isn't the 15th century. You can't go around the world and plant flags and say, 'We're claiming this territory'," Foreign Minister Peter MacKay told broadcaster CTV.

Breitbart

According to the Green Book of International Affairs what Russia did is precisely what is listed as Step One under Claiming Territories for Fun and Profit. I don't know exactly what the Canadians are on about. They seem to suffer from a delusion that international law is determined by the UN or some other equally impotent organization.

For reference, here are all of the steps under Claiming Territories for Fun and Profit:
1) Place a symbol of imperial lust on the land.
2) Exterminate indigenous populations.
3) Prepare to defend the new territory from other imperial nations by way of navy.
4) Populate with people. Tell them the land is their land. Arm them.
5) Let the people fight to defend their land.
6) Disarm them.
7) Use the power of the courts to take the land away from the criminals.
8) Grant the newly confiscated land to corporations.
9) Create more laws to create more criminals.
10) Repeat steps 7 through 9.

Jon

Cleverly dividing the arctic into quadrants would be advantageous to countries with a lower proportionate presence in the Arctic, like the U.S. and Norway.

Fact is, Canada and Russia could and should dominate the region because between them they basically completely circumvent it. The U.S., Denmark, and Norway will get their share, of course, but proportional.

All Russian officials I've seen quoted have stressed that this is not a territorial grab, but a scientific expedition seeking to prove the territorial linkage to the U.N. commission. As per the agreement, countries could claim areas beyond the 200m distance if they can prove a connection and that is what they are trying to do. The U.N. will meet to decide in 2009 and as of right now the U.S. will not have a seat in the bargaining table since the Senate hasn't ratified the initial agreement.

In the end of the day, the arctic countries will each get their share IMO, proportionate to their arctic presence. The bickering will end and everyone will end-up a winner if geologists are correct in their assertions about the arctic's riches (and especially if peak oil is a reality).

####

Notice how Russia's claim is nowhere near areas of the arctic that Canada will be able to claim. The Russian territory seems totally reasonable considering Russia's vast areas bordering the arctic - from the eastern edge of europe to the pacific.



[edit on 2-8-2007 by colleen77]

[edit on 2-8-2007 by colleen77]

o goody now theyr gonna start fighting for the pole and start a nuclear war right when there are so many ufo sithings.
so theres iran,theres the war that will happen with russia,and israel still in war,the whole planet is in war when theres so much ufo sights the other day in instanbul?

I say we decide this the only way both countries understand. A best of 8 series of hockey. Oh wait, we've already done that('72).

Joking aside this is long from over. It will be the courts to decide this. I see Denmark's claim to be up there with Russia and Canada. The US and Norway? Not so much. Just look at a map of the Polar region.

BTW folks, if you think Russia is done as a world power, you are very much mistaken.

its best if the north pole stays neutral atleast for now...
and yea russia is if not the most powerfull nation...just see what we know about secret usa aircraft?
and what do we know about russian new secret planes?almost nothin?why?
couse theyr hiding theyr secrets well
theyr old lookin planes might have alien tech inside
and what a f-22 defeated by a su-27?now how is that possible people will wonder
reasenlty here i even saw it with my al eyes...the thread that sayd russia is puting 5 generation anti stealth and radar tech int heyr mig-30?

For anyone that is interested, here be a map of the Arctic and current territorial claims:




Edit: The basis of the new Russian claims is the extent of the Lomonosov Ridge, which they argue is a part of the their continental shelf, giving them territorial rights. This was rejected in 2001, I think, by the UN and they were requested to provide more evidence. They are currently doing so.


[edit on 2/8/07 by stumason]

[quote=]
"Look, this isn't the 15th century. You can't go around the world and plant flags and say, 'We're claiming this territory'," Foreign Minister Peter MacKay told broadcaster CTV.

Slightly off thread, but does the same reasoning apply to Antartica and was this the real reason behind the Falklands War in 1982.

If Argentina claimed rights to The Falkalnds then they would have claims on Antratica and the mineral rights that go with it, don't know, just thinking aloud.

Oh and by the way, I agree, we have not seen the last of Russia as a world power, far from it.

They should give that disputed area to Finland as a small token of regret for taking Petsamo. Alongside with Petsamo of course. We could use the economic boost to our more remote areas.

I don't know what everyone's so worried about. So what? They want the North Pole? Let them have it!! When they melt the ice caps with their undersea drilling, and rape the oil from the area, causing the world's climate to change, then we have reason to point a finger at them.

It's dangerous to play with Mother Nature. She'll get even if she doesn't like something that we're doing here. Just give her time...

TheBorg

First thing in the morning i'm going to go and stick my own flag in my neighbours pond and claim their house is now mine because i need their vast collection of Microwaveble Meals.

Same logic as Russia?

Well it has started, China is next im just sayin, look for them to claim maybe a part of Antarctica. We started the oil grab and the claiming has started im thinking. This could be what will lead to global war, and i have a sneaking suspicion its just the beginning. Or the big 4 have made a back room deal to divide up the planets resources. i would venture to guess thiers a lot of oil in Antarctica and in the North pole region, Diamonds and gold also. Sit back and watch as the jockying for land continues IMO. I do believe we are close to being out of the ground resources we now have. New exploration is about to start in full force, hide and watch. on another note when they do start to look around a lot more in those areas of the globe wouldnt it be nice if they found something that would lead to a better understanding of what was on the planet way back when. maybe some ruins of another lost civilization. im excited about exploring those areas but im also concerned greed will come into play and a war will start.

Good thread man!!

Alright Russia -- you wanna play games? Say hello to my LITTLE friend!!

Antarctica has been claimed up for years. The Chinese are too late for that game.


upload.wikimedia.org...



There is a treaty in place prohibiting military activity of any kind and also protecting the eco system. Countries can, if they wish, explore for mineral reserves, but the thickness of the ice and inhospitable conditions make it unlikely in the near future.

mod edit: removed huge image

[edit on 8/3/2007 by Gools]

Originally posted by intrepid
BTW folks, if you think Russia is done as a world power, you are very much mistaken.

Funny. I got the same feeling by some of the responses on this thread when it comes to Russia. Such notions of invincibility...

Anyway, I don't see the threat of a heavy Russian presence on the world stage, even the north pole. Here read this article I came accross today.

Despite modern Russia being an open State, well integrated onto the world stage, atlantists insist in considering it as the former Soviet Union and try to isolate it. Following this logic, Washington is proceeding with the enlargement of NATO in spite of its own commitments, and undertaking the deployment of new missile systems in Europe. In this article, drafted specially for Foreign Affairs magazine but later rejected by its editorial board, Russian Foreign Affairs Minister Sergey Lavrov calls on United Staters to renounce the Cold War renewal and suggests finding new regulation mechanisms within a USA-Russia-EU tripolar world. Here is the full, uncensored paper.

Containing Russia: Back to the Future?

By the reaction of some of the posters here, maybe Mr Lavrov has a point. Part of this containment being the use of major media outlets to fog and distort Russian intentions. Sure seems it may be working.

edit = What's with the oversized picture?

[edit on 2-8-2007 by souls]

From the map it looks like russia is cherry picking their territorial claims it doesnt follow any pattern.

Why should russia have any rights to the resources up there they are so backwards and defunct as is with thier own actual resources that it would just go to waste.

This is just like seedy russians to just want to take things even when they have no idea how to use it.

1- A submarine infact IS the safest, and cheapest way to reach the north pole. The USS Skate in 1959 surfaced at the North Pole to spread the ashes of a dead explorer almost 10 years before the first person ever officially reached it (discounting the disputed Robert Perry Expedition).(en.wikipedia.org...).

It takes a crazy man to land a plane anywhere North of 60 , let alone at the North pole. That is of course, on the few days of the year a plane can fly at those altitudes up there. As for land expeditions, when theres ice its winter, and it is deathly cold. When its nicer out the ice is too thin to operate the snowmobiles. Canadian icebreakers get stuck for weeks or even months at a time when the ice shifts, and thats still around the tip of Baffin Island, 400 miles south, so that pretty much buts boats way out. The submarines would likely have been operating somewhere anyways, why not just divert a couple to the pole? I don't understand peoples logic calling this an extravagant spectacle. It's cheap and effective, like most things in the Russian military world.


2- Thank you to the few who took some time to inject some logic into this (Its part of the shelf, laws regarding the subject, and stumason for letting us all know that Russia applied to the UN for this, and they asked for more evidence). I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure if my claim was on an underwater ridge (below all that ice), and I needed to bring more information to an International Body, I would send a sub. The flag plating was probably pretty simple and cheap, so why not? Russia believes its part of their continent, simple as that.

Now for those of you screaming oh no war at the pole, you have to send a military sub. Scientific subs are all lowered from giant Jac Cousteau type super ships. It's a military ship, or no ship. The calls of oil war I'm also skeptical about. I have never once seen any evidence, let alone mention of oil at the North Pole. You have to understand its a bunch of ice cube floating around. A platform would be crushed by the force all those cubes pushing against each other. You can't drill for oil without some sort of underwater platform.... Even IF there was oil, Russia doesn't have the capital for an endeavor like that, and the price of oil would have to go up 500 000% for it to even be close to economically viable (and that's a huge lowball).


3- The map struck me as a little unnerving. I was wondering if anybody knew more about Lomonosov Ridge? It's interesting that the end of the ridge falls almost 100 miles into Canada's 200 mile zone. Is there any sort of trench or anything, some sort of radar cover? Does this present any military advantage for Russia? I highly doubt it, but would be interested in the answer.

All in all, I'm fairly certain this a stab at the minor potential that it warms up enough to allow seasonal shipping lanes, in which case owning a piece would be quite lucrative. That is Canada's official reason for the recent resurfacing of the Arctic sovereignty missions, and outposts being established. The world isn't ending, there's not gonna be an oil war between superpowers fought with robots and gay bombs or whatever, over the least profitable lands on the entire planet (at least for now).

[edit on 2-8-2007 by WuTang]