Freemasonry and its Ancient Mystic Rites

Please don't get me started on this topic again because I tend to get a little obsessive about it. Also please note that this is my belief on Masonry based on the studies that I've done in my free time.

Studies. Ha. love it when people mention "their studies" or "Their research" to authenticate any unsubstatiated claim they may wish everyone else to believe. so first a question, does your studies include, reading at least a dozen volumes by respected authors for and against the organisation, a trawl through libraries and museums for transcripts of original related documents, Current books Like the book of constitutions and the masonic ritual book, cite absolute proof for any of your conclusions or any evidence to substantiate your allegations or does your studies mean trawling the internet on "conspiracy theory" websites and swallowing all , hook line and sinker like a gullible child.

My insight into this topic may be "limited" in a masons eyes.

Limited? its non-existant.

That I am a outsider and I may not know what I'm talking about.

Your right, you don't.

But I've come to believe that Masonry is all but a stepping stone into the occult world. A small & insignificant step on a person's journey into this underground world of secrets.

do you know what "occult" means, The study of the Supernatural. If that were the case, surely a trip down to the local soothsayers shop would be a quicker way to recieve gratification in this area. and if you mean it as a worship of a deity, er dont all religions do that. Good job Freemasonary isnt a religion then isnt it.

"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry."

Sovereign Grand Commander Albert Pike 33�
Morals And Dogma, page 819

Here you use a quote from a book you havent read, about a subject you know nothing and in what context you know not, just that it appeared on other websites so must be good.

In a "Free society" such as ours we cannot have a free country with such organizations such as freemasonry

this is a classic line.

sorry, bit of an oxymoron there, it wouldn't be a "Free Society " or "free country" if it was outlawed would it?

"The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers, which are cited to justify it."

President John F. Kennedy
Address to newspaper publishers, April 27, 1961.

Er so says the man as President of a Government that keeps more secrets from its people than any other nation on Earth. See how far you'll get if it was asked if he would release every Governmental paper ever published to the Public domain.

but as far as secrets go, Freemasonary must be the worst kept one. In the public domain is the where and when they have their meetings, who belongs to which lodge and what rank they hold. The ritual, their core rules and regulations, public museums and libraries, numerous photographs and pictures of their regalia and symbols and shops and websites where you can go as a non mason and buy anything you want. some secret eh?

Kind of like the Catholic Church deciding that its members shouldn't join because of its secret meetings, which they decided at a secret meeting.. go figure.

Freemasonry being the largest "secret society" or :society with secrets", has gotten the brunt of controversy. But there are more sinister organizations that much more important as far as how the world works

If you want to worry about "sinister" organisations I suggest you look no further than the Government. just an idea

Why don`t you guys start researching the other org`s

Such as Thre Knights of the Royal Black Preceptory.
The Orange Order.
SMOTJ
MTS.
The Wheel.
Knights of Coloumbus.

Now there a challenge for you ,the degrees,grips,tokens ,signs for these guys are pretty well hidden so perhaps you are looking in the wrong place for these woooooooo dark arts!

99% of masons are good people, who do not know the intent of the evil1% above the 33rd degree. Ya, 13 degrees above the 33. Genetic, thru bloodlines. Rh factor in bloodtype, high copper content, blood when exposed to air is slightly more purple than normal red--hince the name blueblood. This i know for i am one.

let me clear up the last statement, thru genetics i am one, however i declined iniation, and considered a outcast among them.

Nice arguments Ozzie, all though my thread was a lot more respectful then yours.



You�re right I am not an expert on this topic. Somewhat of a hobby of mine. I doubt that you are expert in this field also. I clearly said that I could be wrong. I was sharing my "insight" into this topic. Perhaps flawed, but I do not speak out of utter ignorance. I have read a considerable amount of books related to this topic. Yes I have read Morals & Dogma, not entirely through but a big portion of it. Yes I know what occult means & yes I used it properly:

occult
Adj.
Of, relating to, or dealing with supernatural influences, agencies, or phenomena.
Beyond the realm of human comprehension; inscrutable.
Available only to the initiate; secret: occult lore. See Synonyms at mysterious.
Hidden from view; concealed.

So we can disagree with each other. You can say I'm wrong all though many would agree with me. There has been many Mason who leave lodges for various reasons. Some say it imposes on their beliefs, some get bored with it; some even say you guys worship Satan. Just ask your self this question. Why if it such a wonderful organization you have there, why does the public view your fraternity with such a negative eye? Is it just out of ignorance? Or is it possibly there is merit to the publics criticism. The more you isolate your society like this the more it will hurt you guys in the future.

sorry if i offended or that you bore the brunt of my rantings, no hard feelings.

Firstly I speak as a Past master of a Lodge in Uk, (Secretary as of May) am currently in the ranks of The Holy Royal Arch, and hope to be doing up to my 18th Degree in the Summer.

Although not an expert and I doubt many people are, I do have easy access to many libraries and the books I have mentioned.

for more detailed information and some of your answers regarding anti-Freemasonary I recommend

www.masonicinfo.com

All Im saying is your not doing a very good job representing your organization by slandering ones opinion. I've found If you want to change one's opinion or even belief. You don't sit and argue with a person. You live by example.

Originally posted by oconnection
All Im saying is your not doing a very good job representing your organization by slandering ones opinion. I've found If you want to change one's opinion or even belief. You don't sit and argue with a person. You live by example.

Does this mean that you should sit by whilst somebody cast aspersions on your character and your intelligence?
Are you saying that people who are freemasons can't defend something that they have much more knowledge of than someone who isn't?
Freemasons do live by example. But living by example is no defence to online accusations.

Point taken. unfortuantely theres not many other ways of disagreeing with somebody without an argument ensuing. Especially when its opposing two sides. who believe they are right.

As the accusers, which anti-masons are, I have never seen them put forward any credible evidence that Freemasonary is either corrupt or a Satanic cult. All that is usually put forward is quotes from a book written in
1817 usually out of context and some pseudo-historical writings by fantasists.

I've tried the nicely nicely approach and that gets you nowhere.

I can point out the Hospitals and schools built from donations from Freemasons and their families, the retirement homes for the elderly and adventure projects we sponsor for the bored teenager.

usual answer from the antis.. Its all a front.

I could tell you the Blue Lodge is mostly about reflecting on ones personal life from birth to death, about how it teaches you to live within the Laws of society, to respect your neighbour as yourself and to revere the God of your own religion.

usual answer form antis.. you're being brainwashed

I could mention that in no part of any of my degrees has Satan been mentioned and Freemasonary is in no way a religous organisation, have no ordained priests or a head of the organisation, no study of the occult, no ghosts, no spirits, no raising from the dead.

usual answer form antis... ah wait till you get to the 33rd degree.

In the Uk the present Government who is vehemently anti-Freemason ordered a national inquiry into all the workings of the organisation to uproot any supposed wrongdoing as an organisation and as a freemason in general and after the biggest witch-hunt ever against masonary for many years they came up with precisely nothing.

usual answer from antis... was a cover up


but then I would say that... oops another usual answer from the antis..


so you see just pointing out the facts is not usually enough without getting into an argument

So...

How bout the book I started this thread about?

We now know the writer of the book taught children to masturbate.

It took 60 posts to get this far, we are doing great!

OK sorry mogus back to the thread topic. The book you mention

oops my message got cut short. The book you mention I would put down as a fairy story. It seems quite the popular thing with fantasists to link freemasonary with ancient Egypt. unfortunately there never has been any link at all. So if you see a book making such a link it is bogus.

check this out for some of the most popular book reviews

www.masonicinfo.com...

Mogus,

Interested to know how it's going so far with your EA and subsequent degrees.

Any chance for an update?

Thanks, - Kmaxhhi///

Was a piece of cake...oh, and some BB-Q Sammiches...

I am no mason but i do have a passion for grail lore and ancient history and Freemasonry often rears its head so I am somewhat learned on Masonry. I highly suggest reading a book by Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas called "The Second Messiah." Though the book does not focus on Freemasonry there are a series of chapters that are very interesting. The book describes the upper degrees of masonry and how some rituals were changed or are no longer practiced. The book also explains how their is a rift in freemasonry and how the Grand Lodge of England may have falsified its origons for political reasons. Great read for everyone especialy for those choosing to become Mason's.


PS. Knightmare if you arnt bull#ting in your above posts would you mind telling more about what you said, if you feel more comfortable feel free to send a U2U

[Edited on 21-1-2004 by IndianaJoe]

There is nothing recognised in the Scottish Rite beyond the 33rd, anywhere. It's not Masonic.

But then, if you are driven in the US to don a fez and ride around town in miniature cars , then why not go all the way and create your own fantasy league?

Topics about freemasonry here can get a little hairy-palmed.

Already reading Second Messiah, good book. They also wrote Hirems Key which is the first book of the set if Im not mistaken.

So, Mogus, how are you finding life in the craft?!

Benjj

Well Beni,
since completing my EA I have found myself wondering if the sacrificial virgin will ever forgive me or if the meat from the sheep will give me Mad Cow.



Seriously though, I look forward to completing my next degree and have found that a lot of the things I have been reading since my EA have been making much more sense...