Pope Says, "Christian Churches not real Churches."

So what? Your criticism makes no sense. Every organized group has Standard Operating Procedures.

One mistake does not erase the other. If both are in error, both are in error.
Standard operating procedures that are not in the texts, is proof that the text was not the source of the procedure, which was my point to begin with. If most of the teachings are not even in the bible, how is it then claimed that the catholic church made up the texts of the bible? How could they make it up, if they didn't even teach it to begin with? Instead, the procedures were from the fertile brains of the popes, not from the texts. It's an argument against the idea that the ecumenical councils changed the texts so that they'd be inherently catholic in statement and premise, but there's very little that is catholic in the bible.

Originally posted by Echo3Foxtrot


They tried to show me proof. I still don't believe.

If you are genuinely willing, I could show you. But be aware, the evidence will come from within you. I'll just show you how to unlock it.

AAC

Going to God's ambassador and receiving assurance of absolution is biblical. I suggest you check out what King David did .. he received God's forgiveness but he also went to God's chosen representative and received assurance of it.

As a christian:
You are a chosen representative.
You are an Ambassador.
You are an Apostle.

It says to confess your sins, one to another. It doesn't say confess your sins to a specific appointee, but to another christian. Sure, you can still confess to an appointee, but you don't have to. Saying you "have to" to receive forgiveness, is, well, wrong. You don't gotta do any of that stuff.

i don't know if these are items are related/concurrent in the Pope's statement - - about Protestantism being a red-headed-stepchild of the 'True?' faith...

but the Pontiff just days ago said that it was OK for Parishes to
elect the Latin Missal for Masses that Pope John XXIII made available for use in Mass...instead of the modernized circus of a mass that has been the
steady diet of many pop-culture catholic priests since after the 1960s.


Looks like Rat-Zinger , aka Benedict XVI, is changing the 'consciousness' of the church.........i.e.: The 'Holy' & "Apostolic", Roman Catholic Church,
to be more precise.

RCC, by the admission of their 'Title', declares that the Vatican need not teach or instruct exactly from Scripture (Bible)....that's what Protestantism
is for, & that's what the Pope is saying when he declares all other christians denominations are watered down versions of what the 'inspired word' was intended to mean...only the Holy, Apostolic RCC has the wit & wisdom to lead the 'flock', the TeleVangelists et al are are red-headed step-children as concerns the 'True' Faith..............

all-in-all, it's just so much SPIN


have a good day

[edit on 10-7-2007 by St Udio]

This guy has just shown the world how fallable he is. And he will most likely get mail! This type of crap is what forced the splitting of the church in the first place. How 14th century of him.

Sieg Heil Mein freund Ratzinger!

Originally posted by jimbo999
I'm all for outlawing all organised religions....but then, maybe that's just me. Although I think a great number of educated people around the world would agree with me....if only it could be done...

If you did that you would be left with billions of sheep running around not knowing what to do... waiting for new wolves to pounce on them, new dogs that will nip at their heels to keep them in line, new Rams that want to take "advantage" of them and new Shepherds that want to fleece them

The communists tried it... all that happened was new masters

RCC, by the admission of their 'Title', declares that the Vatican need not teach or instruct exactly from Scripture (Bible)....that's what Protestantism is for

The inherent flaw in this is the idea that the words of any given "elected" individual are always correct and God-inspired, thus raising them to the level of Godhood and infallibility (et.al, Pope is just another god Casear). The moment said individual makes a mistake, the Godhood thing goes ZIP out the window. "Be ye perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect," means that if you aren't perfect at all times, you aren't doing the Godhood thing. And if you aren't doing the Godhood thing, you can't claim to be infallible. Perfection is not fallible. Forgiveness of sin, and infallibility are two entirely different things, and its on the opposite premise, that the entire infallibilty statements rest.

[edit on 10-7-2007 by undo]

This statement is absolutely crazy. Isnt he basically saing that all other religions are flase? First hes bashing muslims and now he is saying that your "other" faiths are merely cults to Catholicism?
Not even I buy that one...

If all religion was to be abolished, then the sheeple would not know what to do. It would be like mad max. People need to believe in something. I think that it is just engrained within us somehow.

I think that's why people either believe (even if they say they don't but deep down, do), or they are atheists, who believe in 'science'. One way or the other they are beliving there is something that can give them control over their lives and future - God or understaning through science.

It would never work without them, because we are almost expectant of praise and rules from a fatherly figure, which is reflected in our structures and organization of people in goverments, families, etc. There is always someone you can ask, or get advice from higher up the chain than you.

I for one don't think that its some sort of learned behaviour, I think there is influence from God in most things we do - organizing people into heriarchies is just one of them.

Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
I love it when people say all sorts of tidbits of information ... And try to connect them together through Idiocracy ... and then when you ask for proof or some sort of supporting details; They up and POOF !!!! (DISAPEAR)

But I will help him somewhat ......... There were many other books that were supposed to be in the bible ... Or at least that is some men's account of the situation .... If God left men in deliberations over what books to be in the bible ... I wonder What those men could have ROYALLY messed up .... Although I am sure they were underneath the divine order of God.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
Speaker, if you have evidence to the contrary, I'd like to see it.

Have you read these books, Brandon? If you have, you will realize that they are sooooo far in left field that is abundantly clear why the early Christians rejected them. Plus, there is also evidence that no one even knew about these books until decades after the original Gospels and Epistles, etc. surfaced so therefore these apocryphal books are almost certainly just imitators.

I guess we don't worship Mary and pray to statues enough for his taste...

Originally posted by CynicThis type of crap is what forced the splitting of the church in the first place. How 14th century of him.

Now whats wrong with the 14th century? Sigh.. the good ole days The Inquisition has been long established, Luther and Henry VII haven't messed things up yet... one could still sign up for the odd Crusade and correct a few Infidels ...

Religion was a simple thing...

I bet the Pope just wants to get back to grass routes before all Hell breaks loose in 2012...

Originally posted by undo
If most of the teachings are not even in the bible, how is it then claimed that the catholic church made up the texts of the bible?

The Catholic Faith is NOT based upon Sola Scriptura. That is an invention of Martin Luther. That Catholic faith is sacred scripture AND sacred tradition. BOTH. The Catholic Church does NOT claim to be from scripture alone.

Originally posted by undo
Saying you "have to" to receive forgiveness, is, well, wrong.

Catholics do not 'have to' go to a priest to receive forgiveness. They can, AND DO, go directly to God. However, it is a sacrament to go to God's ambassador and to gain a blessing from God through him - Just as King David did when he confessed his sin of murder. It's an outward sign that the one asking forgiveness does .. a 'pilgrimage' if you will ..

Originally posted by St Udio
RCC, ...declares that the Vatican need not teach or instruct exactly from Scripture (Bible)....that's what Protestantismis for,

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Would you please reword this so I can follow. Thank you.

Originally posted by undo
The inherent flaw in this is the idea that the words of any given "elected" individual are always correct and God-inspired, ...

Actually, the 'inhernet flaw' here is your misunderstanding of what the catholic belief of 'infalibility is'. Infalibility is when the Pope excathreda declares a Catholic dogma. It is a rare happening and it is in reference to dogma and only when it is spoken excathedra. It has NOTHING to do with 'his words always being correct and God-inspired'. Not even close. It has nothing to do with him and nothing to do with his words. Just the rare dogma declarations.

Originally posted by Don Wahn
Isnt he basically saing that all other religions are flase?

No. Go back and read the thread. Specifically my first three posts on this thread.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
I guess we don't worship Mary and pray to statues enough for his taste...

I'm disappointed dj. :shk: You should know by now that Catholics do not worship mary and they don't pray to statues. Read the Catechism. Also, read the entire thread including my first three posts. You will see exactly what he said and the contect in which he said it.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by CynicThis type of crap is what forced the splitting of the church in the first place. How 14th century of him.

I bet the Pope just wants to get back to grass routes before all Hell breaks loose in 2012...

OK, perhaps I was a little harsh. Is the 10th century too late for you? LOL.
*snip*That or he's been into the sacred wine a little too often!

Pax!




Mod Edit: Discussion of illegal activities such as drug use, drug paraphernalia are strictly forbidden.

[edit on 10-7-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by johnsky
This is one of the things I love about having come to the realization that made me atheist... I can step back, look at all the religions of the world, and realize just how childish and vicious they are at the same time.

That doesn't mean God doesn't exist, it suggests that he is less of a "go-getter" as described, and more of a "kid-with-a-microscope-and-an-ant-farm", whereas "just create some stuff and se what happens."

Although, I TOTALLY agree that having more people dying in the name of the "prince of peace" than anyone else is totally moronic.

I don't want to pick on you, I used to be there. Just saying.

I just think that the atheists or the God is a cruel kid with a microscope people aren't considering what happens in the absence of religion.

See: Communism in China, Communism in USSR, and Reign of Terror.

Consider the alternative, people!

The Catholic Faith is NOT based upon Sola Scriptura. That is an invention of Martin Luther. That Catholic faith is sacred scripture AND sacred tradition. BOTH. The Catholic Church does NOT claim to be from scripture alone.

Martin Luther didn't invent the idea that the words of Jesus are more important than the words of His ambassadors. If you think so, read Jesus and find out. Tradition is a comfort zone thing. It's nice, predictable, a reason to congregate, and so forth, but it is not the premise of christianity. Tradition is a man-made thing.

Originally posted by undo

The Catholic Faith is NOT based upon Sola Scriptura. That is an invention of Martin Luther. That Catholic faith is sacred scripture AND sacred tradition. BOTH. The Catholic Church does NOT claim to be from scripture alone.

Martin Luther didn't invent the idea that the words of Jesus are more important than the words of His ambassadors. If you think so, read Jesus and find out. Tradition is a comfort zone thing. It's nice, predictable, a reason to congregate, and so forth, but it is not the premise of christianity. Tradition is a man-made thing.

Here, here! In fact, Jesus and Paul attacked Pharisees for following human tradition AND NOT holy scripture.

this reminds me of the schoolyard 'my daddy can kick your daddy's butt arguments'....my church is the bestest and your church is not....what a load
yet another reason why i view religion as a plague.
i really don't care the context of the words that the pope said. what i see is people on a message board essentially arguing, yet again, about religion.
i after seeing this i started a thread about this on another board. same thing...arguments and interpretations.

why people can not see this is beyond me.

Originally posted by kleverone
You know what they say, Divide and conquer.

Best done with accessories to the crime.

[edit on 10/7/07 by SteveR]