is their real magic and trolls gnomes ect.

was their at one time real magic and if so wat made it disseper?

same with trolls, elfs, gnomes, dragons, and dwarfs?

where they true at one time? and where did they go? will they come back?

no
there were never any little magic folk running around. there is no magic either.

simple question
simple answer

Yeah and there arent any such things known as humans either.... right!


Im sorry but you havent lived forever, how in the hell would you know?

Deny Ignorance! Not EVERYTHING!


Magic very well could just be the ability to manifest your reality, such as Mental powers and so forth, Oh but I bet they dont exsist either huh

Dwarfs ever heard lil people?

Gnome I see em on Tv for Travelocity all the time! but seriously you dont know for a fact that these things never exsisted, Proof isnt everything. We still dont have proof of God but Majority of the world still believes in god!

And finally Nothing is simple, almost everything has secrets that we have yet to reveal.

Originally posted by Tranceopticalinclined
Yeah and there arent any such things known as humans either.... right!


Im sorry but you havent lived forever, how in the hell would you know?

well, there's clearly no evidence to show that there were magical beings and magic

Deny Ignorance! Not EVERYTHING!

and it's ignorant to assume that magic and magical beings did exist

Magic very well could just be the ability to manifest your reality, such as Mental powers and so forth, Oh but I bet they dont exsist either huh

well... is there evidence to show that they exist? that's the key issue here. if you can prove it exists, it exists.

Dwarfs ever heard lil people?

well, that's why i said there were no dwarves, dwarves refer to a specific mythological concept... not little people

Gnome I see em on Tv for Travelocity all the time! but seriously you dont know for a fact that these things never exsisted, Proof isnt everything.

you are right, proof is only reality. reality isn't everything, we still have fiction.

We still dont have proof of God but Majority of the world still believes in god!

bandwagon logical fallacy. truth isn't a popular opinion. the majority of the world is also fairly uneducated.

And finally Nothing is simple, almost everything has secrets that we have yet to reveal.

alright... but that doesn't mean we have to point to some sort of superstitious answer with no evidence to support it.

I can't begin to answer your question about magic until I have your personal definition of what magic is, if indeed it exists. Don't be surprised if you have a tough time coming up with one, I'm stumped myself. If shapeshifting and communicating with the dead can be considered magic, I've read numerous accounts about those. Most people believe these phenomenon have never actually occured but I think the odds are that on at least a few occasions they have. Trolls, well that's fascinating but personally I've never seen any hard evidence that they have ever existed. Gnomes are a different story. There are many accounts of people seeing "little people" who are merely inches high when they are using the hallucinogen '___'.

Here's a search query I did on Google that pulled up some interesting results on '___' and little people.

www.google.com...'___'%22&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial

Also, Aleister Crowley seemed to have a strong belief in magic as did his tutor, Allan Bennett. According to the wiki article on Allan Bennett (which is annoyingly lacking in sources on this topic), Bennett allegedly had constructed a wand which he could use.

"Crowley once remarked concerning Bennett’s powers: Bennett had constructed a magical wand out of glass, which he carried with him. As it so happened, Crowley and Bennett were walking along one day and came across a group of theosophists who were ridiculing the use of wands. 'Allan promptly produced his and blasted one of them. It took fourteen hours to restore the incredulous individual to the use of his mind and his muscles.'"

en.wikipedia.org...

P.S. many people believe that magic or magick as they call it (i.e. magic is tricks and magick is the real deal) has never gone away.

i just want to add one thing. there is something that could be seen as magic, and that's sufficiently advanced technology. if we went back and showed da vinci and ipod he wouldn't have any explaination for it.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
i just want to add one thing. there is something that could be seen as magic, and that's sufficiently advanced technology. if we went back and showed da vinci and ipod he wouldn't have any explaination for it.

Do you think this and the ancient stories of "magic" and "gods" tend to support a paleocontact hypothesis? Do you believe in a paleocontact hypothesis?

Originally posted by uberarcanist
Do you think this and the ancient stories of "magic" and "gods" tend to support a paleocontact hypothesis? Do you believe in a paleocontact hypothesis?

absolutely not. i think those stories simply show the level of human creativity in explaining things that we cannot begin to comprehend. myths are stories, not history. they have symbolism and meaning that we can take from them, but they're only metaphorical truth.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by uberarcanist
Do you think this and the ancient stories of "magic" and "gods" tend to support a paleocontact hypothesis? Do you believe in a paleocontact hypothesis?

absolutely not. i think those stories simply show the level of human creativity in explaining things that we cannot begin to comprehend. myths are stories, not history. they have symbolism and meaning that we can take from them, but they're only metaphorical truth.

Considering how much human resources had to be devoted to survival in the bad 'ole days, it's hard for me to believe that some people just sat around all day thinking up elaborate and fanciful tales. I mean, modern humans have just scads of time on their hands and yet a lot of commercial fiction pales in comparison to the creativity (if it is indeed that) of mythological writers of old. It's as if some of these stories are so strange that one couldn't make them up even if they tried.

And to add on what uberarcanist is saying...

The things they came up with, if they did make them up, where did they get the inspiration? Modern humans have things all around them that could influence them to come up with stories. But what did they have?

I believe there was magic, and there is still magic hidden.

Magick still exists in the same forms that it always have, in the view and belief of the individual.
Miracles, coincidence, deja vu, all are part of viewed frames of mind....same as magick.

As far as the little people, didn't they just recently discover hobbits to be real?

to respond to enjoie and uber... they clearly didnt' have much time. it's why there wasn't that much put out. their inspiration... well, look at the illiad and the odyssey. two stories connected to one major event. how were they so creative? well....they really weren't. these days we've had more exposure to more ideas, back then they didn't really need to think up that much. a single bard could come up with quite the easy mythic story. then there were areas like egypt, in which there were entire classes devoted to myth.

just read up one the works of campbell for some great insight into myth.

and seriously, where the hell do you see evidence of magic(k)?

and lockwithnokey, "hobbit" was just a nickname for a hominid species. they weren't really hobbits

[edit on 6/14/07 by madnessinmysoul]

In my opinion "Enjoies" has it right!

As Enjoies posted, I am in agreement that magic did exist to a greater degree then, and believe it still does to a lesser degree. Those who have not witnessed it of course will post many arguments opposing the very idea of magic existing. As would I. However once it has been witnessed a whole other world of possibilities awaits. Once you have successfully had reality sufficiently disproved on various occasions, not only does one become more open-minded in general, but also more appreciative of life because it becomes obvious it in itself is a 'miracle' of sorts.

I think the follwing link may explain it best:

www.lib.umich.edu...

Great question!

I think theutahbigfoothunter is right on about the two sides of the coin in terms of the concept of magic, there's those who haven't seen it put into use and others that have.


If you were to ask me this question about four years ago i would of said i think the basic premise of what constitutes as magic did exist in the biblical days so to speak, however i'v seen it's use(not really wanting too either), so yea it does however were i differ with theutahbigfoothunter is that maybe it does open up ones mind set to a certin extent but at what cost????, Magic is not something to be played with and i feel should never be used what so ever for any reason, the fact i'm even talking about it now saying it does exist worries me that some one will try and mess with that art(if you wanna even call it that), but i can't warn people enough to stay away from this practice.

I think the magic he's talking about that alot of people attribute to is energy magick. But he may also be talking about magic in harry potter, how's moving caslte, and other fantasy stories. Were ducks lay golden eggs.

if magic(k) existed there would be conclusive evidence to show that it existed. and no, eyewitness accounts aren't conclusive evidence, they are circumstantial evidence.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
if magic(k) existed there would be conclusive evidence to show that it existed. and no, eyewitness accounts aren't conclusive evidence, they are circumstantial evidence.

There will never be conclusive evidence.

Any result will always be met with the claim of "that's not Magick". As one who uses Magick all the time, I find it odd that that proof must meet another's definition of Magick and not mine.

Originally posted by Cug
There will never be conclusive evidence.

...then it most likely doesn't exist

Any result will always be met with the claim of "that's not Magick". As one who uses Magick all the time, I find it odd that that proof must meet another's definition of Magick and not mine.

definitions aren't subjective, they're agreed upon by the masses to be something objective

so how would you define "magick"?
and exactly what "magick" do you practice all the time?