Shred of Proof

I'd really like to see one shred of proof of alien abduction. Is anyone actually able to rise to this challenge?

if they could we would not be here

True, unless the stuborn masses choose to deny the information.

If you were abducted by Iran what kind of proof could you provide that it happened? Are you asking for physical evidence?
Would an advanced alien race leave physical evidence behind?

Not necessarily physical evidence. It just seems if such a thing were real then alot of the symptoms or whatever are fake. Like gaining psychic powers, etc. And what would account for people's lovers not waking when their partner is taken? Also abduction cases started after alien movies were created. Just seems fake.

Originally posted by Ihatelindsaylohan
Like gaining psychic powers,

I've never seen such a claim outside of Hollywood.

Also abduction cases started after alien movies were created.

The earliest widely publicized incident was the Hill Abduction. That happened back in 1961. Here is a link if you want to read more about it. en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Umbrax
If you were abducted by Iran what kind of proof could you provide that it happened? Are you asking for physical evidence?
Would an advanced alien race leave physical evidence behind?

Well, first of all - abduction by Iran is not an extraordinary claim, and if a person had a reasonable chance of that having happened (by being in Iraq at the time, or being on the sea in that area at the time), their claim should be taken seriously. We have real world examples of real people actually being captured by Iran, so we know it has happened.

Second, there are good scientific reasons for believing that the abduction phenomenon is a combination of sleep paralysis, dreams (lucid sometimes), and false memory elicited by (conveniently) abduction researchers with hypnosis skills. Alien-abduction believers seem to use a god-of-the-gaps argument: "Ok, so sleep paralysis explains these cases, dreams explain these other ones, and these others were false memories, so let's define these ones we haven't gotten to yet as aliens-did-it.." Whereas it is more proper to put NO abduction cases in the aliens category unless we really get solid evidence it was aliens.

Originally posted by Sophismata

Well, first of all - abduction by Iran is not an extraordinary claim, and if a person had a reasonable chance of that having happened (by being in Iraq at the time, or being on the sea in that area at the time), their claim should be taken seriously. We have real world examples of real people actually being captured by Iran, so we know it has happened.

Sophismata, the point of the rhetorical question was what kind of proof is needed to back up a claim of being abducted.

Originally posted by Ihatelindsaylohan
I'd really like to see one shred of proof of alien abduction. Is anyone actually able to rise to this challenge?

No "proof." Bits of evidence, though. Nothing much to go on.

There is some indication that these events may not take place in a frame of reality we are familiar with. Which is not a very good position from which to argue in their favor. Even Budd Hopkins, who used to be an old "blood and guts" alien believer has slowly over his years of research come to believe that some of this stuff does not happen in normal space and time.

Doesn't leave a lot to go on. The best thing to do at this point is adopt a reasonable skeptical attitude, but keep your mind open for additional, better proof. But that's pretty much the way to approach any aspect of aliens and UFOs.

The Betty Hill Star Map:

When Betty was aboard the craft, she stated she was shown a star map, and was asked by one of the humanoids, "Where are you on the map?" to which she shrugged and said, "I don't know." There has been an immense amount of discussion about the so-called "star map," and a lot of it's interpretation is up for grabs. A full understanding of astronomy would be required to study it's plotting and try to find it's pattern in a specific point in the skies. I am certainly not qualified to undertake this task, but I will tell you what I consider some of the more reasonable explanations by professionals. The map that Betty says she was shown was a three-dimensional view with different size dots and lines on it. I vividly recall at the time of this incident, that the fact that scientists could not find any constellation that fit it's markings, put much doubt on the Hills claims. However, approximately 8 years thereafter, when more powerful telescopes came into use, several scientist claim to have found a match for this map.

Three stars in the clusters were unknown until 1969. No Astronomer on earth knew their position in 1963. Yet Betty Hill drew a map of these stars in 1963. Before I conclude this article, I must point out that I am not one given to shallow evidence from one webpage or a supermarket tabloid. I am simply taking the role of reporter here, and offer no opinion of my own. Everything included in this article has been confirmed by many investigators, scientists, psychiatrists, etc. I will leave you this one fact:

Astronomers at Ohio State University had a computer put them in their exact position out beyond the double star system of Zeta Reticuli 1 and Zeta Reticuli 2--220 trillion miles, 37 light years from earth, looking toward our sun. The computer duplicated with virtually no variation, the map of Betty Hill.

www.ufocasebook.com...

It may not be proof, but it is fairly strong evidence...

I have an idea when they get around to you.....you come give us proof.

Originally posted by observe50
I have an idea when they get around to you.....you come give us proof.

Ahh, interesting idea. What if you had been abducted (and you knew it: crucial point. We don't want anyone discovering this over twenty years because they had a weird dream when they were five. You can construct anything at all from that.) How would you convince anyone else? Here you are. You know you've had these experiences. They are as real as eating breakfast. You go tell someone and they scoff at you. Right? So how would you go about proving the case? Especially if you weren't 'quite' sure what happened. The 'High Strangeness' factor that has been mentioned here already.

Well, I have an idea. It might not work, and it's just a suggestion. I'd start keeping a detailed diary for a start. Then, if I chose to tell someone I'd be very careful about the venue I chose to tell the story. I'd research this venue carefully before I uttered a single word. I'd choose a place that was sympathetic, but not 'too' sympathetic for the wide-eyed believers could be as harmful to you as the rationalists out there who won't believe anything. If I were feeling particularly vulnerable or fragile about my experiences, I wouldn't walk down Skid Road at 1:00am.

Then I'd get my act together to tell the story. I'd lay it all out sequentially, put in as much detail as I possibly could and tell the whole story. I wouldn't try to type it online; I'd use a word processor. I'd edit myself. I'd check my spelling. I'd put some effort into it. Now, the best case scenario here would be if I were a proven skeptic beforehand. Frankly, people who believe anything already would not be the best candidates to prove anything. If you have a history of mental instability, drug use, or other weirdness, well, I wouldn't even start, You're tainted. Sorry, but that's the way it is. There are a lot of people who just want attention out there and they'll make up anything to get it. I've seen it happen on Budd Hopkins interview shows. Someone will call up and say they think they were abducted. Budd says, "Do you have any unusual scars?" "Well, yes!" "Please stay on the line. This is very important. We'll get to you." Whoa! Attention!

Then I'd simply tell the story--in full. Whitley Strieber did it. Charles Hall did it. Lots of people have done it, in detail. Sometimes the stories ARE bogus, but that's not our assumption here. The idea is: How would you go about it.

Now, here's what I WOULDN'T do. I wouldn't drop tantalizing hints that 'something's happened to me but I'm not going to tell you what.' and then expect people to ask gentle questions to draw me out about my experiences with no one ever expressing the slightest doubt. "Such a gentle caring soul in such a dark, dark world! Your experiences must be so harrowing. I'm so sorry. Tell us about it." If you want that, go to a clinical psychologist. They're trained to draw 'it' out of you (at $50/hour) in private; no worries.

I wouldn't say something like, 'Well, I've been on their ships.' and just leave it at that and expect anyone to believe what I said. 'Oh, gee, that's cool. What kind of ship were you on? Tell us about it." It's unreasonable to expect gentle treatment if you're being ever so coy. We've had too many fakes, too many Billy Meier cults, too many Adamski frauds for anyone to expect that. Either lay it out or go back to bed.

I wouldn't say, 'I have much to tell you if only you'd believe me ahead of time.' And I certainly would not drop these kinds of hints without any shred of evidence whatsoever. No context, no dates, not explanation, no descriptions, no details--nothing to go on at all. ATS is not so much a hospital as it is a place where you can expect to be challenged when you present extraordinary claims. Don't get in a huff because people expect extraordinary evidence.

So, in summary, I would suggest someone in that situation at least have the good sense to tell their story straight up and in detail and not shrivel up and go home just because someone doesn't buy a half-hearted lame attempt to insert a scattered phrase here and there claiming superiority and an advanced state of being with no other details whatsoever.

So? I'm ready! Come get me! It's my turn!

Shred of Proof

I'd really like to see one shred of proof of alien abduction. Is anyone actually able to rise to this challenge?

Well, "proof" would hardly be needed if "proven", now would it?
However, I can offer a good shred of EVIDENCE of alien abduction....

A woman and her husband are abducted. She comes back, and under hypnosis draws out a star constellation. The star constellation exactly matches an existing constellation (and one not even visible in her native hemisphere), and includes some stars not even KNOWN at the time of the hypnosis, but found later. In addition to the POSITION of the stars, she even states what COLOR certain ones are, AND draws a path of travel shown to her that goes from yellow star to yellow star, just as our own. In addition to all of this, leading scientists attest that the path is the LOGICAL PATH (considering interstellar distances and position) between these star systems.

Here's the link for more on the case...(it's an older post, so hopefully most of the images are still around)
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Proof? No. Compelling evidence? Absolutely...

Proof? like what stealing a alien cell phone?

First prove that their would be a way to get proof!

Prove to a color blind person that an apple is red, or to a def person that dogs bark. You cant but its true none the less.

Its like this for they whole alien/ufo topic, You cant show someone somethings red if they cant see the color in the first place.

Does this constitute any proof, I wonder? If not, well, it's about the best physical evidence we seem to have at present, other than witness testimonies which can of course, be made up.

Google Video Link

Exactly how many people who get abducted and are returned by humans retain any evidence of their capture either?


However, there are at least a few abduction/encounter cases that do have some evidence that at least "something" happened to these individuals whether they were actually taken by ETs or not.

Here's one for instance that is seldomly discussed.

Carl Higdon's 1974 abduction:
www.ufocasebook.com...
ufoexperiences.blogspot.com...
ufoexperiences.blogspot.com...
ufoexperiences.blogspot.com...
ufoexperiences.blogspot.com...

In Higdon's encounter the evidence left behind was that his lungs that were formerly scarred from tuberculosis were found to be completely healed.


[edit on 5-6-2007 by Frith]

Originally posted by Ihatelindsaylohan
I'd really like to see one shred of proof of alien abduction. Is anyone actually able to rise to this challenge?

What about Betty and Barney Hill's "Star map" ?

I can't offer proof but the Travis Walton case is one of the more believable stories IMO. 4-5 witnesses who saw the UFO and the flash of energy that knocked Walton down all passed polygraph tests. I believe them.

They don't need proof. Just ask Sleeper! Seriously though, it is something that cannot be proven. If you were being abducted are you sure you would know about it? After all even earth based anasthetic can have you waking up with no legs, and no idea where they went.

Originally posted by Schaden
I can't offer proof but the Travis Walton case is one of the more believable stories IMO. 4-5 witnesses who saw the UFO and the flash of energy that knocked Walton down all passed polygraph tests. I believe them.

The Parker/Hickson abduction case is a pretty good one, too. I like it because the aliens aren't the stereotypic little grey guys. Downright creepy.