UK Expands Surveillance!

Can anyone in the Uk tell me what the heck is going on!? You've got cameras everywhere - now they have microphones on them to catch your audio as well. Now this - Police can set up speeding cameras anywhere!

I don't know about you but in the U.S. one cannot be charged civilly for a criminal offence. In other words, here in the U.S. an actual HUMAN BEING employed as a police officer MUST witness your crime AND cite you personally in order for the charge to stick. The use of speeding cameras are being challenged in the courts and the FREE people are winning.

I am curious as to why UK citizens are allowing this to happen in their society? Who governs who? Where is the uprising from the citizenry demanding an end to this? Or is this is a welcomed event in your society? I'm not mocking; I genuinely want to understand why you have become the modern Orwellian 1984 Big Brother society and yet it appears to the outside world that there is a tacit acceptance of this? Please share your opinions as I am floored over these recent governmental transgressions against your frredoms. Thanks in advance.

Dude, your not the only one.

I try and point it out to my friends as much as i possibly can, and my parents when they are willing to listen..

I have seen the microphone boxes. I have seen the cameras with loudspeakers. I am worried about the lack of concern shown in the UK public at present. Brown is going to be PM, unchallenged, and will try to bring us into the New World Order, his words 3 days ago.

I read an article about Liverpool wanting to use aerial drones (UAV's) to monitor the "crime".. the signs are everywhere that they intend to encase us in a high tech prison.

The government spying on its own citizens? No, can't be that..... it's to catch those nasty terrorists that are EVERYWHERE... Even YOU could be one! :O



Lets all Obey Big Brother and live mindlessly happy lives!

"Go back to bed America, your government is in control again.. Here, watch this, shutup! You are free..to do as we tell you..YOU ARE FREE.. TO DO WHAT WE TELL YOU" - Bill Hicks, absolute legend. RIP

They're being installed already??? what do they look like or where are they normally situated so I can have a look for myself

(edit to add: ) Perhaps I should also take a copy of Orwells' 1984 to read into the microphone units


The reason that all these 'security measures' can be implemented is simple...unlike the US, here in the UK we have no written constitution, only civil liberties handed down by the Crown, and just as they were given, so they can just as easily be taken away.

What did catch my attention a week or so ago whilst reading about Gordon Broon's manifesto for P.M. was that he intends to draw up a written constitution for UK citizens, but will more than likely take into account the new surveillance measures and enshrine the rights of the state to use such measures as legally-binding evidence against the person in the courts of law

Welcome to the Panopticon society!



[edit on 18-5-2007 by citizen smith]

[edit on 18-5-2007 by citizen smith]

In the so called "crime hotspots" yes. They are really only in the test phase i imagine, but it is the first stepping stone to getting them spread out nationwide! It happens EVERY time, this time will be no different.

They look like boxes, grey and slightly arched. I cant describe it any better than that, sorry. I think they are being used in conjunction with the "talking cameras", or maybe they mite even just be speakers? I don know, i cant remember why i thought they were microphones, but something tells me they are.

Oh geez. Another US poster with a story about Cameras in the UK.

You guys have BIG problems at home with constitutional violations, Macarthay type paranoia and crooks and liars in the Whitehouse. If you spent half as much time sorting that out as you did harping on about cameras in the UK then the world would be a lot safer, quieter place.

Seriously. This whole "police state" thing about the UK has been done to death.

_____

OK. My original post stopped at the lines above but I'll expand a little. This has been discussed on ATS on at least two other occasions, maybe more. Each time its been discussed the UK posters have come on and said, quite rightly, that the majority of security cameras in the UK are privately owned, nothing to do with the government and that the ones in the city centres were initially set up during the IRA troubles and when we had considerable problems with Football Hooligans, and have since been expanded to cater for a lack of police on the streets, as direct video evidence of a crime being undertaken is considered as the Holy Grail of information for the Crown Prosecution Service.

Speed cameras have been in the UK for over 10 years now. They are used - unsuprisingly - to catch people driving too fast in residential areas, in accident blackspots and on dangerous roads. Again, they are frowned upon as something of a "cash cow" for the government in the form of a stealth tax, but thats all.

Now I will say this - I'm from the UK, have lived here all my life and how I'm telling it is exactly how it is here. Its not a police state - theres not enough bloody police here to make it one - if anything the UK needs more, less politically correct Police than we have now.

And, if not for our cameras, none of the 7/7 bombers would have been identified, and none of the second wave bombers that got it wrong would have been caught.

The subject is dead. As a dodo. Not that I expect you to listen to what I've written. There will probably be at least half a dozen cock-a-mamey posts after this about "the poor Brits in the Police state" and probably a few about how we'reall going to be invaded and slaughtered by Islamic extremists any day now.

Please stop projecting YOUR paranoia onto my country.

[edit on 18/0507/07 by neformore]

[edit on 18/0507/07 by neformore]

Shrunken... I see it to and can'r help wondering why there isn't some type of public outrage over this. I mean...

There's this - a man imprisoned for having a manequin with a fake gun!

This - regarding surveillance over work rates, travel etc... It even mentions that there are about 4.2M CCTVs in the UK, or about 1 for every 14 people!

A discussion on mandating these policies throught the EU!

An article that discusses a system for tracking the travel of EVERYONE!

Article discussing ID cards being used in conjunction with CCTV and tracking!

There is even a governmental Office of Surveillance Commissioners!

Even telecommunications are surveilled at DOUBLE the rate since 1997!

Proof of intended DNA surveillance and data tracking!

They are even offering instruction to outside agencies on how to conduct independent surveillance within the boundries of the law.

They even run routine surveillance on the medical industry - as evidenced in this article on Obstetrics!

My goodness... I could go on and on and on and on with these links but I think that you get the idea. So what gives? Why is this being permitted? Here in the U.S. my city wanted to implement public surveillance cameras and they were restricted to only those buildings which the city owns and operates. The current "red light" cameras and "Speeding" cameras are being challenged in the state Supreme Court!

Please, someone from the UK enlighten me! It seems like there has been successful brainwashing and conformity from the masses. Please, say it ain't so!

Oh, so my bad! I guess I'm not "allowed" to comment on "your" society whilst "We" have so many "big Problems" of our own. If you knew anything about me, you would know that I spend about 90% of time carping about our own internal problems. But you had better come to grips with the fact that this is becoming a GLOBAL village my friend and what starts in your country ends in mine and vice-versa.

Now, whereas you feel that this whole "police state thing has been done to death" it obviously hasn't as there is apparently NO DEATH to your police state - now is there?

My gut instinct is that England/UK will be playing an important part in the run up to 2012.. this is why our country is at the top of the game when it comes to monitoring its citizens.

That is only my opinion, but from everything i've read it makes so much sense to me.

That, Shrunken, is my greatest fear. IS the UK an experiment or a lab of some sort? The population certainly seems comfortable being serveilled and the government certainly seems to have no end to their ideas "How" to surveil you.

Another poster commented on your lack of a "Constitution" and how your rights are simply bequeathed to you by the Crown... is this the case? Admittedly I do not understand the inner workings of your government. I did a search on Google and Yahoo and came up empty. It would suprise me that such an advanced society has functioned for so long without a document describing the rights of your citizenry.

Well, I suggest you read my edited post above, which I added to while you were typing this, and then ask a few British people about it, or even use the search function and see whats been said before

Well, considering we still have a Royal Family, who alot of people actually like/are sympathetic towards, its no suprise we are so far down the highway to hell..

They are not some innocent bystanders. They are complicit, if not directly involved, in whats shaping the world today. They money trail comes back to London. England was part of the USA's birth history, aswell as Israels. Infact, England itself was once referred to as "Israel".

More importantly, the history of our country, the hidden history, is what stands out for me personally. Stone Henge is not just some pile of rocks. It is connected in more ways than one with the Pyramids in Giza, although i don't want to waffle about this in this thread. the point is IMO that England is a very important location.

Is it coincidence that we are GMT, Zero time... that we have the Olympics here in 2012, ANOTHER Zero Time... 12/12/12

You be the judge.

[edit on 18-5-2007 by shrunkensimon]

Ah, yes... thank you neformore. I did a search and didn't turn up what I was looking for. Your explaination is succinct and is greatly appreciated. I am not attempting to "project my paranoia" on your country. But understand - WE are being fed the news over here in the states in a manner that proves inconsistent with your explaination. How am I to decipher any truth without asking a citizen of the UK? At least show some respect for my interest to engage and learn more about it.

Any other comments from folks in the UK?

I truly think that what is being done in the UK is just as much of a testing ground for what is to come in the US, and the think the opposite is true as well. The only reason why we don't have cameras on every single corner (YET) is just becuase how large the US is. Check it out, I can almost be you that every new street light that comes up on your town will have some kind of camera on it. It will be here in the US, soon just as much as many of the crooked things our politicians are doing here will find it's way to the UK. Both countries are in the same boat!!

Yeah it's not a police state over here at the moment. But the fact that they are installing thousands of cameras all over the place is a bit discomforting. Especially now as you say they are using microphones to listen to what people are talking about.

It just whiffs a little of a state that's on the direct path to high-tech modern fascism, no?

well just to freak out everyone a bit more, in the metropolitan area where I live police are piloting a scheme whereby drivers using mobiles (cell phones) whilst at the wheel are being photographed and/or videoed and the pics published on the web, needless to say a lot of people are not very happy at this naming and shaming intrusion, if it's a success they will be rolling it out county wide, then probably nationwide. A guy I know was stopped today by mistake, his mobile still in the glove box the woman police officer was wearing a head cam and videoing the conversation as her colleague checked through his call list on the hand set no Apology was given

[edit on 18-5-2007 by avro]

Im from the UK, and disagree with everything neformore has said.

For one theres been a lot more police on the streets recently (I live in two countries in the UK and both have seen increased activity), which in someways is good, but I cant help think why this sudden increase.

Yes on the surface everything seems fine, but take a closer look around:

- A massive amount of security cameras to watch citizens
- Plans for Cameras with speakers to shout at citizens
- Plans for x-ray cameras on street lights to see into citizens (is this going ahead?)
- Mircophones to capture what citizens say
- Increased police activity
- 'Voluntary' ID cards which are actually going to be compulsory
- Vechile tracking combined with the ID cards and CCTV to track you everywhere you go
- The whole ID leading to human Chipping.
- Tracking your internet use, tracking what you buy/sell, bascially what you DO.

If you look at the above, its not going to be like Orwell's 1984, it is.
However all this is masked by trivia and consumerism, people are too wrapped up in the latest celeb gossip, soap operas, or just 'having a good time' to take much notice.
Combine all this, TV, and the amount you have to work due of all the money you own the bank because you just had to buy the latest phone etc means that everyone is too concerned on everyday bullsh*t to care, and even if some people do, its merely a passing reference, not being dwelled on for too long.

Todays society is all too willing to give away any freedoms it had because of the fear of 'terrorism' so they can live their lives in some sort of 'safety and security', and the UK seems to be the 'test subject' for the NWO.

What alarms me with the spread of new surveillance technology and mandated powers is that once such acts become defined in Statute, such as by Broon's vaunted written constitution, they become very very difficult to have removed. For instance, it is still technically law for all English males over the age 14 to carry out 2 hours of longbow practice every Sunday.

The 'database' state is already here and growing by the day as supplementary to those surveillance powers and over 700,000 school kids have already been biometrically scanned and recorded, despite parental opposition.

The 2008/9 Parliamentary session will be the real crunch when the national ID card becomes mandatory for reciept of ANY public service.

We lead the world in CCTV face-recognition, which, when allied to the almighty database will be able to record your whereabouts and possible intentions through 'computerised body language analysis' no matter where you are.

To sum up my sentiments:

"This corporate throne of finance, this septic isle,
This earth of modernity, this seat of Mars,
This; is another Eden? a demi-paradise?
This fortress built by government themselves
Against infection and the hand of war,
This enslaved breed of men, this little world,
This tarnished stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall,
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,
This cursed plot, this earth, this realm, this....is England?"

(Deliberately mis-quoted From Richard II, Act 2)

Great post Lemox

I live on the outside of London, and i've seen these police state signs around the area where i live. Its not just confined to central london anymore.. The one thing which got my attention last time i was in central london was on the tube... announcements every 5-10 seconds, "keep belongings with you" "you are being montiored for your safety and security" "if you see anything suspicious, dob on your fellow man"..

It doesn't scare me, at all.

What does scare me is that i seem to be one of few who see what our country, and indeed planet is turning into.. a high tech prison for your body, mind and soul.

Will they triumph? Or is there still time for humanity to WAKE UP.

"Tune in next time, for more Planet Earth, the hottest show in the Universe."